My 2nd post. Portable DAP, amp, headphones question

[Gorf]

Hi, my first post a few weeks ago was a little confused & I realise that I didn't understand several aspects, so my questions didn't make much sense. I have some new questions after having a careful think about exactly what I want & where I want to use it. I live on an Island & I have no realistic way to try anything before I buy.

I want a portable kit. So I can listen sitting in my office in front of a computer, sitting/laying on the sofa or lounging around outdoors. I'd also like the kit to to fit in my pockets or maybe a little case so that I can walk around with it. I like Cowon sound & like the UI & manufacture quality, so I want to consider the Plenue P2. I'd like to start with over ear headphones such as the Sennheiser HD650 or Shure SRH1840. If I need an amp, I'd like to consider the Chord Mojo. I'd also like a pair of in ear headphones for when outdoors - I'm not sure which model - it's a steep learning curve!

The main types of music I like is prog rock such as Frost & Arena, also older works from Yes & Genesis. My current collection is in Ogg format, although I'm happy to replace it with Flac if necessary.

My main question is whether a headphone amp is essential?

Any & all thoughts are welcome on my kit choice & suggestions for in ears are very welcome!

Budget about GBP 2k to 2.5k

Thanks.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi, my first post a few weeks ago was a little confused & I realise that I didn't understand several aspects, so my questions didn't make much sense. I have some new questions after having a careful think about exactly what I want & where I want to use it. I live on an Island & I have no realistic way to try anything before I buy.

I want a portable kit. So I can listen sitting in my office in front of a computer, sitting/laying on the sofa or lounging around outdoors. I'd also like the kit to to fit in my pockets or maybe a little case so that I can walk around with it. I like Cowon sound & like the UI & manufacture quality, so I want to consider the Plenue P2. I'd like to start with over ear headphones such as the Sennheiser HD650 or Shure SRH1840. If I need an amp, I'd like to consider the Chord Mojo. I'd also like a pair of in ear headphones for when outdoors - I'm not sure which model - it's a steep learning curve!

The main types of music I like is prog rock such as Frost & Arena, also older works from Yes & Genesis. My current collection is in Ogg format, although I'm happy to replace it with Flac if necessary.

My main question is whether a headphone amp is essential?

Any & all thoughts are welcome on my kit choice & suggestions for in ears are very welcome!

Budget about GBP 2k to 2.5k

Thanks.

Walking around and outdoors with an open headphone like an HD650 would be like blowing tons of money on upgrading a convertible's sound system, but then you're never stuck in traffic in hot or bad weather with the top up, so you end up blowing money on a nice sound system and using it to broadcast your music to bystanders while the exhaust, wind, and all other noise are just getting between you and the music. In other words, the HD650 is going to let you hear practically everything out there, and at best, you have to crank it up to mask the noise, which at minimum will damage your hearing.

 

[Gorf]

Walking around and outdoors with an open headphone like an HD650 would be like blowing tons of money on upgrading a convertible's sound system, but then you're never stuck in traffic in hot or bad weather with the top up, so you end up blowing money on a nice sound system and using it to broadcast your music to bystanders while the exhaust, wind, and all other noise are just getting between you and the music. In other words, the HD650 is going to let you hear practically everything out there, and at best, you have to crank it up to mask the noise, which at minimum will damage your hearing.

Thanks for your reply. I meant that I would get some in ear headphones for when outdoors. I think at the least, over ears would be too big for outside. Sorry if I didn't explain that bit fully.

 

[serman005]

Thanks for your reply. I meant that I would get some in ear headphones for when outdoors. I think at the least, over ears would be too big for outside. Sorry if I didn't explain that bit fully.

In that event, then yes, you do need an amp for the indoor HD650. For outside, I don't know what part of your overall budget you wish to apportion for IEMs. Truthfully, unless you are looking for a world-beater, something like the 1More Triple or Quad Driver or the RHA T20 or maybe the Senn IE80 would probably do just fine. Unless you want to spend more, in which case we can generate a list for that, as well.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for your reply. I meant that I would get some in ear headphones for when outdoors. I think at the least, over ears would be too big for outside. Sorry if I didn't explain that bit fully.

I have an HD600 for home use and an Aurisonics ASG-1.3 for outside (plus a VSonic VSD3S as my beater IEM). The Aurisonics has a sound more similar to a bassier HD650, but I EQ it to reduce the bass response; similarly, I EQ the HD600 to trim the 3500hz peak, and boost the low bass, which effectively smoothens the response but moves it closer to the sound of the HD650.

If you're looking into getting a DAP, look into Fiio's X1 (which was designed to be a compact, less frills DAP for IEMs) or the X5III (which can run Android). Both have 1.8v to 1.9v line out so you can use either with a desktop amp to drive fullsize headphones, plus there's the DK1 dock.

Alternately, if you get the HE400S, you won't need an amp anymore, although it has a bit more of a treble peak than the HD600.

 

[Gorf]

In that event, then yes, you do need an amp for the indoor HD650. For outside, I don't know what part of your overall budget you wish to apportion for IEMs. Truthfully, unless you are looking for a world-beater, something like the 1More Triple or Quad Driver or the RHA T20 or maybe the Senn IE80 would probably do just fine. Unless you want to spend more, in which case we can generate a list for that, as well.

Thanks for your reply.

Budget for outdoor would be GBP 250 - GBP 450. After some reading, I'm not sure whether on-ears would be more comfortable for outdoors?

 

[headpfizer]

The HD650 is an excellent and affordable headphone. It is a great starting point for you because it has been reviewed and compared to other headphones so many times. Once you get familiar with the sound of them, it will be easier to judge reviews of other headphones should you feel like adding to your collection at a later date. You will need an amp to power them though.

Chord mojo will easily power HD650.

For outdoors, I personally go with IEMs. Simply because it's less to carry around. Again the 1More Tripple drivers get good reviews and are not going to break the bank. They'd be a good starting point to see if you feel you need anything more.

I can't comment on DAPs as I don't use one but the 3 items above would run you roughly £800 combined.

 

[buke9]

I for one can not stand on ear headphones. I've always had over ears and have tried several on ears and just can't stand them but that is just me. For portable most likely no need for a amp as most portable headphones and earphones were meant to run from a phone or dap. Portable with the 650's would require a amp to get them to sound their best though. I definitely prefer iem's for outdoor use. As far as daps go in this price range find one with the features and UI to your liking as sound isn't going to be demonstrably to different as one might be warmer than another and one has better bass but probably not to far apart. I use my phone a bout as much or more than my dap as it doesn't stream but Tidal HiFi without wifi would cost a arm and a couple of legs. I have the 1More Triple Drivers and they are very good for the price but the Quads are definitely better.

 

[Gorf]

I for one can not stand on ear headphones. I've always had over ears and have tried several on ears and just can't stand them but that is just me. For portable most likely no need for a amp as most portable headphones and earphones were meant to run from a phone or dap. Portable with the 650's would require a amp to get them to sound their best though. I definitely prefer iem's for outdoor use. As far as daps go in this price range find one with the features and UI to your liking as sound isn't going to be demonstrably to different as one might be warmer than another and one has better bass but probably not to far apart. I use my phone a bout as much or more than my dap as it doesn't stream but Tidal HiFi without wifi would cost a arm and a couple of legs. I have the 1More Triple Drivers and they are very good for the price but the Quads are definitely better.

Thanks, I've never tried on-ear headphones, I wondered about their comfort as I find in ear a little awkward. I'd also preferably like to be able to hear a little of what's around me - like the phone, or something. I will try IMEs again though if I can. I have an old pair of Shure IMEs which I used with my Cowon X5.

Noted about the 650s needing an amp, would on-ears also need an amp?

I won't be streaming, just listening to stored Ogg or Flac music.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Thanks, I've never tried on-ear headphones, I wondered about their comfort as I find in ear a little awkward. I'd also preferably like to be able to hear a little of what's around me - like the phone, or something. I will try IMEs again though if I can. I have an old pair of Shure IMEs which I used with my Cowon X5.

Noted about the 650s needing an amp, would on-ears also need an amp?

I won't be streaming, just listening to stored Ogg or Flac music.

The best way is to try them, but I agree with what's been said so far. On-ear phones aren't for me. Ears are like heat exchangers. If you slap a chunk of foam and leather right on them they get hot really fast. Plus, if you're going to take your outer ear out of the equation it seems more logical to cut to the chase with some kind of IN-ear solution (when portability is the priority.)

 

[l0stkn0wledge]

For outdoor and travel, I'd tend towards IEMs. I have had past problems with them, so I went budget on a pair of Mee Audio M6Pro. Sub-$40 and they come with memory foam tips, which probably helped make this experience better than past ones. They're a good set of budget minded IEMs. I debated doing custom IEMs for a long time but I've yet to be able to warrant the pricing. The other benefit of IEMs is the lack of need for an extra AMP.

I am currently looking for some travel worth over ear headphones too. I have a list of about six closed back options that I'm waiting to go try at a few local shops over the next few weeks. They'll all be driven fine with my Fiio X3-Gen2, so it's mostly down to sound + comfort + portability. If you aren't planning to stream music and just listen to your stuff the Fiio X1 may be a good option. I went with the X3 because I can attach it to my Android phone (via a USB OTG adapter I have) and use it as a USB DAC, which gives me better sound than plugging straight into the phone and helps bypass the volume cap in Android.

 

[Gorf]

For outdoor and travel, I'd tend towards IEMs. I have had past problems with them, so I went budget on a pair of Mee Audio M6Pro. Sub-$40 and they come with memory foam tips, which probably helped make this experience better than past ones. They're a good set of budget minded IEMs. I debated doing custom IEMs for a long time but I've yet to be able to warrant the pricing. The other benefit of IEMs is the lack of need for an extra AMP.

I am currently looking for some travel worth over ear headphones too. I have a list of about six closed back options that I'm waiting to go try at a few local shops over the next few weeks. They'll all be driven fine with my Fiio X3-Gen2, so it's mostly down to sound + comfort + portability. If you aren't planning to stream music and just listen to your stuff the Fiio X1 may be a good option. I went with the X3 because I can attach it to my Android phone (via a USB OTG adapter I have) and use it as a USB DAC, which gives me better sound than plugging straight into the phone and helps bypass the volume cap in Android.

Thanks, I'll look out for the memory foam option. I think that Shure offer this on their IEMs.

I was also thinking of more extreme portability. For instance if I'm painting my boat. Would it be possible to use wireless headphones (with a corresponding drop in quality). How woudl these attach to the DAP?

About the DAP model, I like the Cowon brand & UI & will probably stick with that.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I was also thinking of more extreme portability. For instance if I'm painting my boat. Would it be possible to use wireless headphones (with a corresponding drop in quality). How woudl these attach to the DAP?

They don't "attach" - the DAP would need to have BT if the headphone does so they can connect. At which point the DAP is technically pointless to use other than this being a back up since

1. BT headphones will utilize its BT receiver, which works with its own DAC and HPamp circuit built into the same headphone - a smartphone would work just as well if not better than a DAP, considering the sound will be identical in this scenario while allowing for calls to interrupt music (rather than only realize between tracks that your phone has been ringing)

2. Some DAPs with BT are more expensive, and few of the low end units have BT. The more expensive units with BT also have WiFi and that's how they're more likely to be used with streaming services. Either way these really only have BT as a back up, ie, you can use BT in the gym (except, again, in some of these scenarios, you might as well just use your phone if you're using easier to drive IEMs and BT headphones).

 

[Gorf]

They don't "attach" - the DAP would need to have BT if the headphone does so they can connect. At which point the DAP is technically pointless to use other than this being a back up since

1. BT headphones will utilize its BT receiver, which works with its own DAC and HPamp circuit built into the same headphone - a smartphone would work just as well if not better than a DAP, considering the sound will be identical in this scenario while allowing for calls to interrupt music (rather than only realize between tracks that your phone has been ringing)

2. Some DAPs with BT are more expensive, and few of the low end units have BT. The more expensive units with BT also have WiFi and that's how they're more likely to be used with streaming services. Either way these really only have BT as a back up, ie, you can use BT in the gym (except, again, in some of these scenarios, you might as well just use your phone if you're using easier to drive IEMs and BT headphones).

Very useful & interesting, thanks.

 

[Gorf]

The best way is to try them, but I agree with what's been said so far. On-ear phones aren't for me. Ears are like heat exchangers. If you slap a chunk of foam and leather right on them they get hot really fast. Plus, if you're going to take your outer ear out of the equation it seems more logical to cut to the chase with some kind of IN-ear solution (when portability is the priority.)

Understood - good point about the heat exchangers which I will take onboard, thanks.

I can't really try without buying.