Musical Information Above 13 Khz?
Oct 13, 2008 at 5:20 AM Post #31 of 65

donunus

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Little yet very important. It is a deal breaker for me if it doesn't have that top end sparkle. It was one of the 2 main problems I had with my audio technica ad2000. The sennheiser hd600s gave me that air I was missing with the ATs.

What irony, the AT AD2000 air series doesnt have top end air
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 5:42 AM Post #32 of 65

AzN1337c0d3r

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"Love Comes Again" - "DJ Tiesto" - "Just Be - Taiwan Edition"... there is a very prominent high-pitched almost clicking like sound that is part of the music that has a fundamental above at least 10KHz if not 15 KHz starting at about 10 seconds into the song. Almost every headphone I've heard except for the HD6xx Senns make that noise sibiliant.
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 6:15 AM Post #36 of 65

donunus

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AzN1337c0d3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"Love Comes Again" - "DJ Tiesto" - "Just Be - Taiwan Edition"... there is a very prominent high-pitched almost clicking like sound that is part of the music that has a fundamental above at least 10KHz if not 15 KHz starting at about 10 seconds into the song. Almost every headphone I've heard except for the HD6xx Senns make that noise sibiliant.


sibilance lies around 7khz to 12khz. clicks are lower than 10khz in frequency unless they are paired with some sort of sssssssssssss sound which can so up to 12khz then the very thin tissss sound that cant be produced by the human mouth that can go up to 16khz and above
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM Post #37 of 65

Quelch

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I would love to have your problems !

I'm an old Hi-Fi fan from way back and now, possibly because I listened to too much looud music when I was younger, I can't hear much above 9 or 10 khz

That doesn't detract from my love of and enjoyment of music
beerchug.gif


Nearly all music is below that 9 to 10 khz, my dog may miss some of that sound above that level but if you listen to a test CD with all the frequencies demonstrated you will realise how high that is: that is bat country !

Life is too short to squabble

Enjoy the music while you can !
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 8:05 AM Post #38 of 65

donunus

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Enjoying the music is the key thing... yes. But if you can get the last octave right, it is heavenly. It is one of my favorite things to hear. Gives me goosebumps to hear cymbals sounding right
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Oct 13, 2008 at 8:22 AM Post #42 of 65

Nocturnal310

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Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
no fundamental frequencies start that high. thats the bottom line... Just harmonics. Its mostly cymbals or artificial cymbals that go up that high even in their harmonics


Yup,

electronically synthesized Percussion based sounds exist there.

although not many instruments reach there.

if u like i can demonstrate to u guys with my FL3 Studio


Quote:

Originally Posted by AzN1337c0d3r /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"Love Comes Again" - "DJ Tiesto" - "Just Be - Taiwan Edition"... there is a very prominent high-pitched almost clicking like sound that is part of the music that has a fundamental above at least 10KHz if not 15 KHz starting at about 10 seconds into the song. Almost every headphone I've heard except for the HD6xx Senns make that noise sibiliant.


In Love Comes again there is lot of stuff going upto 17khz.

use the Spectrum Visualizer in Foobar and check.
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 9:42 AM Post #43 of 65

donunus

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

In Love Comes again there is lot of stuff going upto 17khz.

use the Spectrum Visualizer in Foobar and check.



There is no question of that. I even have lots of hed kandi stuff that has energy up to the 23khz bar on foobar
biggrin.gif
None of that is centered around that frequency though meaning the signal everytime those cymbals hit is strongest at a frequency much lower. 14khz is the highest cymbal fundamental ive seen. Its only a bar or two that goes up in the spectrum at 23khz whenever I see it. The last ooze of harmonics from those electronic cymbals
 
Oct 13, 2008 at 9:47 AM Post #44 of 65

big-ban

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Generally speaking, frequencies up there aren't very important to catch the musical message. What these frequencies do for me is that they make the music more detailed, imaging becomes sharper and soundstage seems more pronounced.
I even feel that headphones with a lot of treble have a tendency to distract me from the music by putting focus on detail and soundstage. Not all headphones do this, but there is a distinct tendency for me.

I've prepared a small example with only frequencies beyond 13 Khz:
"13 Khz and beyond" example

The original song contains an electrical bass, a drum set, a singer (and background singers) a piano and an acoustic guitar.
The original file is of course FLAC as well, just to make sure no frequencies are cropped during the encoding process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Little yet very important. It is a deal breaker for me if it doesn't have that top end sparkle. It was one of the 2 main problems I had with my audio technica ad2000. The sennheiser hd600s gave me that air I was missing with the ATs.

What irony, the AT AD2000 air series doesnt have top end air



May I suggest another phone to try then: the ATH-W2002. It really has a lot of sparkle. Of all AT I've owned so far, it's the most active headphone beyond 10 Khz, which makes it very detailed, sharp (in terms of imaging) and spacious sounding. It won't have that Senn typical mushy warmth, even though its kick- and low bass is everything but lacking. Its midbass just isn't as pronounced, but it still makes me hear some bass texture that doesn't even become that apparent with the L3000.
 

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