Music Apps, Tips and Tricks for the LG V30, V35, V40, V50 & V60
Jun 8, 2019 at 9:48 AM Post #691 of 1,143
I understand. And you are entirely right about the fact that streaming Tidal from UAPP is the safest way (as long as you remain on Oreo) since anything you play will be bit-perfect and unmolested.

The post of mine which started this debate (here) was specifically about Tidal and MQA. That's why I felt compelled to point out that those do, in fact, play correctly in the Tidal app.

For my part, I only have Master (MQA) albums downloaded in Tidal. So when I use Offline mode, that's what I choose from -- and I know they will all play correctly.

Among Tidal's classical catalog, there really are some excellent Master/MQA albums. To mention a few:

1) The entire catalog of newly transferred Everest Records' historical recordings. This label distinguished themselves by making very high quality 3-channel recordings on 35mm film tape back in late 1950s-1960s. For example, check Copland: Symphony No. 3 (the composer directing London Symphony Orchestra). But there are many, many others, both popular and more complex works. Search in Tidal for "Everest Records Master Tapes" and Show All Albums. They are $40 each on HDtracks.

2) Brahms: The Symphonies (Berlin Philharmonic, Simon Rattle). I know some people dislike Rattle for his earlier Mahler series, but to me these are the all-time best Brahms performances. Better than the old BPO/Abbado series. For example, check the Andante movement from Symphony no. 3. I challenge anybody to show me any music, of any genre, more beautiful than this performance. I am serious, that was a challenge.

3) Bruckner: The Complete Symphonies (Staatskapelle Berlin, Daniel Barenboim). When it comes to Wagner, I am out. But I do appreciate Bruckner's symphonies, and these are great performances and recordings.

4) Dvorák: Complete Symphonies & Concertos (Czech Philharmonic, Jiri Belohlavek). Excellent performances and recordings of these romantic era favorites: These guys have Dvorák in their blood. (Growing up with Josef Suk's definitive 1978 performance of Dvorák's violin concerto, I have a hard time enjoying other performances of it. Frank Peter Zimmermann does a fine job on this MQA set; and sound quality is infinitely better than the old Supraphon recording, even with its latest 2011 re-release.)

5) Mozart Violin Concertos (Trondheimsolistene, Marianne Thorsen). If you like Mozart, you will be hard pressed to find recordings with higher sound quality than these.

6) The Nordic Sound (2L Audiophile Reference Recordings). Many of these can be downloaded on http://www.2l.no/hires in a number of different resolutions.

Of course there any many other, but these come to mind as particularly excellent.

In short, I easily have hundreds of hours top quality MQA music to choose from when playing offline Tidal.
I will definitely give some of those albums a spin - thanks for the suggestions!
 
Jun 8, 2019 at 7:40 PM Post #692 of 1,143
I will definitely give some of those albums a spin - thanks for the suggestions!

Sure thing.

One thing I forgot to mention about the Everest Records albums: Each of them exist both as HiFi (44/16 Redbook) and as Master (192/24 MQA). Make sure to choose the MQA version.

BTW this also makes them excellent for comparing the two formats on high quality recordings (as opposed to on crappy recordings, which many MQA releases seem to be). I can suggest albums if anybody is interested in such comparisons.
 
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Jun 8, 2019 at 8:16 PM Post #693 of 1,143
Regardless of whether one is a MQA fan or not, I doubt that anybody would seriously claim that Google Play Music's 320kbps compression is superior. Or even comparable.

And even if one believes that MQA has no quality advantage over uncompressed, it does have the benefit of playing flawlessly from the Tidal app on V30 (including in Offline mode) with no upsampling or other molestation.
Maybe I am is that one. Most of my music is dsd and offline playing so MQA for me is just a bad joke.
 
Jun 9, 2019 at 10:09 AM Post #694 of 1,143
Maybe I am is that one. Most of my music is dsd and offline playing so MQA for me is just a bad joke.

Naaah, I don't believe you are that one -- that is, the one who would seriously argue that 320kbps compressed is superior (or equal) to MQA. Even if you don't use MQA yourself :beyersmile:

But I get it. If you own all your music as SACD and/or HiRes files, there is no need to bother with MQA. And given enough bandwidth and/or storage, no need to bother with it for streaming either -- except if it is the HiRes format used by your preferred music streaming service.

Like most people, I have a large collection of CDs (now ripped), and a smaller collection of purchased HiRes files. But the only MQA or DSD files I have are the ones downloaded from 2L's website. So for me MQA is merely a way to enjoy a HiRes version from Tidal -- with the added benefit that it avoids upsampling on V30, even when played offline in the Tidal app.

I don't have SACDs as they are impossible to rip. I would consider buying the Carl Nielsen cycle with New York Philharmonic/Gilbert, but not when the only way to play it is on a physical SACD player.

I always wondered: Since most DSD releases are recorded/edited as DXD anyway (352.8KHz PCM) then converted to DSD for SACD release (with the inevitable noise and distortion caused by this conversion) I would think preserving it as HiRes PCM might be more ideal -- even if that HiRes PCM is folded into MQA with a bit of loss in amplitude detail. But of course, in the end the DAC will convert it to DSD anyway, so I see the logic.

I have no DSD experience, so these are just musings. Not looking for a heated debate...
 
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Jun 19, 2019 at 7:31 AM Post #695 of 1,143
I've just received a notification that Pie is ready for download on my V30+. I assume it's still not a good idea to install it? What exactly are the issues with Pie? Upsampling/downsampling to 48 kHZ?
 
Jun 19, 2019 at 8:24 AM Post #696 of 1,143
I've just received a notification that Pie is ready for download on my V30+. I assume it's still not a good idea to install it? What exactly are the issues with Pie? Upsampling/downsampling to 48 kHZ?

Are you sure it's Pie, and not just an Oreo security update? Which V30 model do you have?

We haven't seen Pie source code released yet for any V30 model, and no reports of its release even for the Korean model -- which ordinarily would get it first. But a security update just began rolling out in recent days, and is more likely what you are seeing.

Still, don't update until you've confirmed it is NOT Pie. For the reasons you stated.
 
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Jun 24, 2019 at 7:44 AM Post #699 of 1,143
Hi everyone, I just purchased the LG V30+ as a dap (I already have an iPhone, I will use the LG as a dap). My question is that I have some MQA albums I purchased online and they are saved on my memory card, do I need to install an extra pp to listen to them on my LG V30+? or just the native music player will be enough to unfold it? Thank you :)
 
Jun 26, 2019 at 1:08 AM Post #700 of 1,143
I think I've narrowed down the behavior that causes these PCM playback problems with Android Pie. @ctheanh - would you be willing to run a small test for me?
Try this in either UAPP, Neutron or the LG Music app.

1) Kill all other music apps (clear them from the notification shade too) and reboot.
2) Start playing a 44 kHz PCM file. Confirm you have the correct (44 kHz, 24-bit) sample rate via DIRECT mode output in audio_flinger.
3) Without hitting pause, immediately start to play any other PCM file with a higher sample rate (e.g., 96/24 or 192/24).

I'm seeing this consistently cause a re-sampling to 48 kHz via the MIXER.

If you remember to hit pause in between changing tracks to different sample rates, you should be able to maintain DIRECT mode output.
But any time you try to instantly switch sample rates to a hi-res PCM, the log is complaining the quad DAC is in use and it ends up getting piped through the MIXER :frowning2:

This is not an issue in Android 8 in any music app.

I'd love to know if you can consistently reproduce the behavior I'm seeing.

P.S. One edit to the above. If you use the LG music app for this test, it obviously won't play back 44 kHz PCM via DIRECT mode. In that case, try switching between, say 96/24 and 192/24 PCM.

P.P.S. I think the reason why Poweramp is working consistently on Android Pie is pure pot luck and nothing to do with brilliance on the part of the Poweramp dev. Poweramp forces you to set a sample rate (I've just left mine at 96 kHz), so, obviously, the sample rate isn't ever changing when you switch tracks.
 
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Jun 27, 2019 at 1:36 PM Post #701 of 1,143
You V30 owners don't realize how lucky you are, not yet having Android Pie.
The good news is, it looks like most of the major issues are going to be ironed out by the time you get there.

I can't tell you how impressed I am with Davy Wentzler (UAPP dev). I sent him a suggestion this morning and got a compile back less than 5 minutes later. I wouldn't call it a solution, but it seems we have a work-around to the nastiest quad DAC problem on Android Pie. The issue occurs when instantly switching sample rates of PCM files. The currently-playing AudioTrack object in Android Pie is, for whatever reason, not getting destroyed fast enough, and since you can't have two streams simultaneously accessing the DAC directly, the second goes to the mixer, with all the ensuing nastiness.

The fix/work-around is currently only in the 5.1.9b beta version, but I'd imagine/hope this will get pushed to the app store soon. This now leaves UAPP in a rather interesting and unique position as being the only app (that I'm aware of) that can hop between any sample-rate PCM files in Android Pie and consistently maintain the use of direct mode to the DAC hardware. Note that this is a significant change from Android 8. In Android 8 (and in fact, every earlier version of Android), LG's own music app has never been able to play 44 kHz files in direct mode - they always get upsampled to 48 kHz via the mixer. However, in Android 9, every music app, including Neutron and LG's own music app is now having problems with all hi-res PCM when switching sample rates. This means there's a strong chance that any PCM file played back on the LG music app is actually going to be routed via the mixer.

P.S. For MQA on Android Pie, you will still need to use Tidal.
 
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Jun 27, 2019 at 8:02 PM Post #702 of 1,143
@csglinux: Thank you for the update, and for your efforts to resolve these issues. Indeed, Davy is awesome!

Quick question: Did you factory reset your V40 after the update, which this post suggested makes a difference? Seeing the discussion over there, I feel like a jerk even asking you, but just in case...

Also, I believe they got a patched version of LGUP working on V40 (although not sure, study this XDA thread) which would mean it should be possible to roll back to Oreo.

In the case of V30, updating to Pie will most likely increase the ARB counter (Anti Roll-Back) meaning it will NOT be possible to roll back once updated. That makes it doubly important to think twice before accepting the update. If rooted, you will be able update to Pie without that restriction. (Of course there are already several Pie custom ROMs as well, which claim to support the Quad DAC, but I haven't tried them.)
 
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Jun 27, 2019 at 8:32 PM Post #703 of 1,143
Hi @Dannemand, Unfortunately, I can't see that post you linked to. I'm sure it was polite and utterly scientific though. And if the factory reset didn't fix things, then sacrificing a couple of chickens beforehand certainly would have. At least Davy now has a fix that he can push to the Play Store that won't require anybody to wipe out the contents of their phones :)

BTW, did you see today how lucky V30 owners are?...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/LG-rolls-back-on-V30-Android-Pie-commitment.426519.0.html
 

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