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Music Apps, Tips and Tricks for the LG V30

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by csglinux, Jan 3, 2018.
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  1. archy121
    What dot ?

    Never seen any lit dots in V30 UAPP app during MQA playback. Just the clear MQA logo and bitrate Info.

    I would say that’s specific to Pioneer hardware especially if it’s some LED you refer to.

    *edit* Dannemand got there first before I completed edit.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. SteveOliver
    @Dannemand and @archy121 thank you for your replies, I took a picture of the green dot on the 300R. I think it may be a software bug in UAPP, I do believe the V30 is unfolding the MQA OK, but just not displaying the dot/light.


  3. Dannemand
    @SteveOliver: Maybe I misunderstood you, but I don't think there is a bug: That screendump shows UAPP decoding MQA to 96kHz (1x unfold) on your 300R. On V30 UAPP does NOT decode, but rather sends the data straight to the Quad DAC, which has hardware decoding and rendering. The bonus is you'll get 2x unfold by the DAC, thus a higher sample rate.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    SteveOliver and monsieurfromag3 like this.
  4. Dannemand
    I checked the new sections you added to the opening post. Looks good to me. I kind of feel silly being named the rooting expert as I have not yet rooted my own V30 -- not having had a need so far, and wanting to preserve my 2 year warranty as long as possible. But of course I know how, and I do stay up-to-date with the activity on XDA about rooting.

    One comment I would add: I recommend deciding to root BEFORE accepting the next major System Update. The rooting procedures for all V30 models depend on rolling back to an earlier Android version (after rooting you can re-install any Android version you want). LG is likely to block the ability to roll back starting with Android Pie (using so-called ARB=Anti-Roll-Back). Once you have accepted an official Android Pie update from LG or your carrier, the path to root is likely blocked -- unless new procedures can be found. I say "likely" because LG and the carriers don't announce in advance which System Update will block roll back. It could in theory be the next monthly Security Update. But the most likely time is with the next major System Update, probably Android Pie. So don't accept an Android Pie System Update if you think you may want to root. Root first, THEN you can install Android Pie whenever you want.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    buonassi and archy121 like this.
  5. SteveOliver
    You are correct, I just got it confirmed from Davy Wentzler, it is normal to not get the dot when using the internal dac in the V30. Its not a bug as such, its because there is no way to get the MQA authenticity status back from the hardware.


    "When playing using the internal DAC, UAPP uses the MQA decoder and
    renderer inside the LG. We cannot get the MQA information out of it, so
    no dot is displayed. "
    Dannemand and monsieurfromag3 like this.
  6. Dannemand
    Great, thank you for confirming that. Fact is, my post was NOT correct, because it says we get 2x unfold by the Quad DAC. Of course I meant 4x unfold: 1st unfold=2x, 2nd unfold=4x.
    SteveOliver likes this.
  7. csglinux
    Come now @Dannemand - not so modest! You've clearly demonstrated the skills and knowledge necessary for me to forward all awkward questions about rooting (and how to unbrick your V30) directly to you :wink:

    Very good point - thanks. Added.
    Dannemand likes this.
  8. Dannemand
    Good one :jecklinsmile:

    One of the easy aspects of recent LG phones is that they're almost impossible to unbrick without special hardware. Makes for less worrying if they DO brick...

    This is mostly a concern with T-Mobile models (which I have myself). Other variants are more resilient.

    Reminded me of this classic David Letterman Top-Ten (in a year when several post-apocalyptic movies and TV shows had come out):

    Letterman Top Ten: Good Things About Living in A Post-apocalyptic Wasteland

    10. You don't waste time worrying about an impending apocalypse

    9. It's a great excuse for not dusting

    8. Low mortgage rates make buying a cave easier than ever

    7. No shortage of irradiated sand

    6. Fewer films about post-apocalyptic wastelands

    5. You can find a parking space

    4. No republican debates

    3. News radio has traffic on the 1s, zombie attacks on the 8s

    2. Breakdancing robots

    1. Still easy to purchase Mets tickets
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
    csglinux likes this.
  9. Left Channel
    :) Edit needed? Mets tickets.
    Dannemand likes this.
  10. Dannemand
    I think you're right and edited it. Number 10 was the one that really got me laughing, and made the analogy to bricked phones, even if that's not quite an apocalypse.
    Left Channel likes this.
  11. sica
    Guys I been using UAPP and Neutron on my v30 with the settings in the first post. Been getting significantly less bass than the Pandora app. The sound from UAPP and Nuetron has lots of detail but on the other hand is too lean, treble forward and fatiguing.
    Anybody experienced the same?
  12. borisov57
    I have made few sabre dacs, and all support 16/44. ESS is high end audio IC manufacturer. My bet is, android is behind 16/48 ( more is better ). LG could fix that. I would be very ashamed, if I would make an audio device which does not work optimaly with vast majority of recorded music. Anyway, thanks LG for such great audio devices. And screen is gorgeous for me. Great underrated phone. Video recording is also great.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
    Dannemand likes this.
  13. Dannemand
    Nice post. I think you are right that the ESS 9218P does support 16/44 (as also hinted in @csglinux' recent post as well). I spent some time with a friend last fall who designs extremely high-end equipment, and he had tested ESS 9028 for their DAC (before settling on Cirrus Logic/Crystal instead). No doubt he would have mentioned such an issue, as much of their focus is to achieve the best possible Redbook playback.

    But it won't matter if LG's driver doesn't support it, since that driver is our path to the DAC hardware. It is noteworthy that Davy (UAPP's developer) chose as workaround to convert 16/44 to 24/44. I have to presume his first choice would have been to deliver 16/44 directly to the DAC if at all possible.

    I suppose it is possible that the driver DOES support 16/44, but for whatever reason LG chose to not expose that support. OR they chose to configure the policies used by audio_flinger (the module that directs audio from input sources to output devices) to not support it -- which we CAN change on a rooted phone if we knew how. (I have a feeling that's what csglinux is busy working on these days.)

    But that leads to the question of why LG chose to do this? I do NOT believe that they were simply too stupid or they didn't care about audio quality. If that were the case, they wouldn't have given us the ESS DAC in the first place. My guess is that something drove them to this decision back in the days of V10 or V20, when earlier Android versions were more simplistic about audio support.

    I have a feeling that this will change when we get the Android Pie update. With the audio improvements in Android 8 and 9, AND LG maybe taking inspiration from UAPP and Neutron, I think they may just get it right this time.

    Call me naive :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  14. csglinux
    I wish I could be that optimistic :wink: But I suspect you hit the nail squarely on the head here. I've had many communications with Dmitry (Neutron dev) over the past couple of years about this oversight. It seems there was an unfortunate confluence of events here. 1) LG not even realizing what was going on 2) Google choosing to use 48 kHz as the default sample rate. (That was utter stupidity, given that 99% of all current music is sampled at 44.1 kHz.) 3) The DAC chip LG chose *may* not have native 16-bit support, but that shouldn't actually matter because this can be controlled via API calls, e.g., those that Neutron uses to force the DAC to bit pad:

    uint16_t sample = xxxx;
    uint24_t dac_sample = (uint24_t)sample << 16;

    This is, for sure, done inside the DAC (it expands to 24 bits and then does voltage modulation to produce the analog signal), not in Neutron. (UAPP ended up doing the same thing Neutron does, so kudos to Dmitry for being the first to figure this out.)
    Neutron uses the AudioTrack API directly, which is loaded dynamically (using private functions which aren't used by most Android apps). This API sets format flags which force the audio system to the desired frequency. The fact that LG didn't even think to do this
    inside their own music player is a bit worrying. I thought for one brief moment we might be able to fix this system-wide via root, but I'm increasingly pessimistic about that now. It seems it simply can't be done via the xml config files :frowning2:

    You should bottle your optimism and sell it :) I'd bet money that Android Pie and the V50 will have the exact same problem.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
    imnraged and HungryPanda like this.
  15. buonassi
    And so would I. The only thing LG did right, was pick ESS hardware.

    Audio is very clearly not the priority with Android devices, even the V30 (despite it's marketing - and shockingly good sound if SRC can be mitigated). Audio is the priority for ESS tech, who is solely responsible for the headphone jack's performance. Of course the DAC chip supports 44/16. Do you really think ESS would purposely omit that from the list of supported sample rate / word lengths? It would be like making a TV that didn't support 1080p 16:9 aspect ratio.
    monsieurfromag3 likes this.
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