MrSpeakers Electrostatic Prototype Listening Impressions

Apr 28, 2018 at 12:26 PM Post #871 of 937
Too many shows, alas I couldnt make Fujiya this year. I leave for Europe for Munich soon and I just hit the end of my rope for travel...

For most shows we try to demo VOCE in a room now, loud ambient noise crushes the soundstage and masks the highs. If possible try to hear VOCE at the very start or end of day when it’s a little quieter... Sunday is always better for quiet tIme...
 
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Apr 28, 2018 at 6:21 PM Post #872 of 937
Not very impressed with the tone of these right out of the box, prototypes sounded better at the various shows where I heard them. Suspect this is going to require messing with tubes and the various tuning pads to find the right combo. They do sound promising though.

Does sound better on the tube amp v. ss, but then again what doesn't.
 
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Apr 28, 2018 at 7:12 PM Post #873 of 937
I actually drag my feet to these noisy crowded audio shows (there has to be some gear I am curious to go there or meeting friends) so I can’t imagine being in your manufacturer position with having to attend multiple of these shows and spend all day there and more, that is WORK > <.

Dan, if I may suggest, you should request your representatives at the show to let people use their source, the music selection was just really poor on the tablet. If sennheiser with their HE-1 demo lets users play their own cds.

Also, the room was actually relatively quiet so really a shame own music could not be used.

Armaud
 
Apr 28, 2018 at 7:26 PM Post #874 of 937
Agree, the music selection was limited. Matter of fact, you had to share the source with another listener. I felt a hinder to ask the other if he did not mind if I change the music selection to Krall versus Brubeck. Personally, I do not even listen to either Krall or Brubeck when auditioning HPs. Not sure if I will go back today since it is a little over a hour or so where I live. I pretty much listened to everything I wanted to. With moving to San Diego this summer, I get the feeling I will get another opportunity to listen to the Voce/BHSE combo.

Dan, first thing I asked of the exhibitor is where you were. I figured if you went to the show in Indonesia than you would surely go to this one. Although, I do understand in regards to travel fatigue and weighing between this show and Munich. Having gone to Munich, that show is a must since it may attract the heavy spenders, but perhaps not the diehard head-fi consumer as you would see attend this show.

Cheers
 
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Apr 29, 2018 at 3:33 AM Post #875 of 937
I’m here right now listening to the VOCE. I don’t know if I’ll say it’s lacking treble but it’s definitely a warm fluid approach that’s treble mild but not lacking. A little more treble sparkle will help at least to my preference.

The staging is also a little smaller than SR-009S.

I’d put it more in the musty than than airy crisp category.

I’ve got the volume cranked up on the BHSE & whilst there’s sufficient volume I feel the VOCA is asking for more grunt to kick start it. Wonder how it’ll sound off a DIY T2?
 
Apr 29, 2018 at 1:46 PM Post #876 of 937
I hope you won’t object if I ramble on a bit and add my impressions. Thanks to Dan Clark, and Mark Dolbear of Electromod in the UK, I have had the pleasure of the MrSpeakers Voce at home for a few days. It is a production model with a few hours on the clock. I am told that it would be good if they were run in for a few weeks - so early days for these.

I was joined on one day by “Bonesy Jonesy” and we had available his BHSE and 009, my KGBH and my KGSShv Carbons. Other Earspeakers were 007Mk1 and the new Voce. All the amplifiers drove all the headphones with ease. (400 volt, 18-20mA OP stage current).

All the amplifiers sounded similar in that these KG designs are all very good amplifiers. A sense of power, clarity, wide soundstage and good separation of instruments, voices etc.

The ES headphones however, sound very different. There are immediately obvious differences between 007Mk1, Voce and 009. I wouldn’t presume to tell you which is the most accurate or whatever. None of these was exactly the same as a live concert whether rock or classical but headphones provide a personal subjective experience so you choose what you prefer.

The market for ES equipment has been led by Stax for many years and for many/most that is all listeners know. The Voce is different and it is a very welcome addition to the market which can help to increase the choice and popularity of this excellent transducer type.

I can imagine that some Stax users with top tier stuff would find the Voce so different that it could be dismissed as underwhelming but the 009 ‘s presentation sometimes seems too “larger than life” to me. I would say the Voce has a smaller soundstage and I do like the more intimate type of presentation of the Voce a lot. It is a welcome alternative. If I had not heard or owned Stax I would be approaching things with an open mind.

I find the Voce very comfortable. It also has a clever storage case/stand.

The weights of the headphones with cable supported;

Voce 390gm, 007Mk1 and 009 similar at around 410gm.

On the immediate sonic impressions:

The 009 has highest perceived efficiency and produces a big soundstage and lots of bass.

The 007 needs a few db more drive but is warmer with a fat bass.

The Voce also needs a few more db and produces a tidy, more intimate soundstage. I enjoyed the tone and clarity of instruments and voices.

Because my amplifiers have precise stepped attenuators, I can say that I would normally listen at around 10 o’clock (-40dB). With the 007 and Voce I used 4-6dB less attenuation and for the Voce a little bass boost around 60 -120-320 Hz.

PS. I used ripped CD to flac files, Arcam D33 DAC. Output balanced 2.2v rms.

PS. I have today fired up my KGST (400v 10mA) with similar results at normal listening levels.
P1040093.JPG
 
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Apr 29, 2018 at 2:44 PM Post #877 of 937
Nice write-up @headinclouds agree mostly... :L3000:

Here are some of my ramblings after having had my Voce for a little over a week now.
I used my BHSE and LL2SS from YGGY A1 and a list of test tracks that I use all the time to compare. So far just the 009 and Voce (impression comparing to the 007 MKII are from memory for now, will confirm later).

I find that with my BHSE I listen at around 10:30 on the volume pot Voce needs around 11:30 to get the same "feel". At first I thought there was an issue with the Voce until I had a "DUH" moment and forgot that I was not adjusting the volume when switching back and forth. Which lead to an investigation at varying levels to compare. I found that the Voce looses that "feel" or "weight of sound" quicker when lowering the volume than the 009. The 009 seems to maintain the "balance of sound" at lower levels better than the Voce. Hope this makes sense. hard to describe.

After some longer listening periods I at first thought the Voce were "missing" something as there appeared to be holes in the sound I was hearing. However after some time comparing I believe what I am hearing is slightly different (more defined?) transitions going up and down the frequency scale. Not sure if that made sense, but the upshot is that I can hear details in-between that are hidden with the smoother presentation of the 009. Example is that I can hear fingers on guitar strings in some tracks with Voce that I can not hear with the 009.

The Voce are IMO right up there in the same league as the others. On the whole, I would put them just shy of the 009 in sound and comfort, they are ahead of the 007MKII in sound and slightly behind in comfort.
I think the comfort is good, but, after a few hours the pads have a more pronounced feeling of pressing into my big noggin, I notice them (or they make themselves known) more than the pads on the other two. I think it is due to the narrowness of the surface of the pad that sits on my skin. The 009 pad is softer and about 22-24mm wide where the Voce is slightly stiffer and 15-17mm wide.

Hope this makes sense. These are definitely a good addition to my inventory.

Oh, a comment on the box, mostly very nicely done, one quibble is the sheet metal plate that the headphones sit on makes it a little awkward for me to get the headphones in and out of the case. I understand the need to firmly hold the headphones during shipping and all, but a less aggressive holding method would be nice for daily use. It is a very minor issue but thought I would provide feedback.
 
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Apr 29, 2018 at 2:51 PM Post #878 of 937
I would like to thank headinclouds to allow me the privilege to hear such amazing headphone equipment.

It's not very often you get the chance to see and hear a top built KGHV Carbon and a BH alongside the infamous Headamp BHSE with the Stax 009, Stax 007 MK1 and the new Mr Speakers Voce's in one room. A great experience.

I agree with some of the other headfi.org members on this thread regarding the sound from the Voce's i.e. compared to the 009's I found they sounded a bit muddy sounding with withdrawn treble and low power on bass slam and bass presence. Hopefully the Voce's will greatly improve over time with a full burn in.
 
Apr 29, 2018 at 10:18 PM Post #879 of 937
I actually drag my feet to these noisy crowded audio shows (there has to be some gear I am curious to go there or meeting friends) so I can’t imagine being in your manufacturer position with having to attend multiple of these shows and spend all day there and more, that is WORK > <.

Dan, if I may suggest, you should request your representatives at the show to let people use their source, the music selection was just really poor on the tablet. If sennheiser with their HE-1 demo lets users play their own cds.

Also, the room was actually relatively quiet so really a shame own music could not be used.

Armaud

I've had the music disagreement with the distributor before, they feel their approach is best for their market, so I do leave it up to them. I prefer to have more flexible source material for people.

Agree, the music selection was limited. Matter of fact, you had to share the source with another listener. I felt a hinder to ask the other if he did not mind if I change the music selection to Krall versus Brubeck. Personally, I do not even listen to either Krall or Brubeck when auditioning HPs. Not sure if I will go back today since it is a little over a hour or so where I live. I pretty much listened to everything I wanted to. With moving to San Diego this summer, I get the feeling I will get another opportunity to listen to the Voce/BHSE combo.

Dan, first thing I asked of the exhibitor is where you were. I figured if you went to the show in Indonesia than you would surely go to this one. Although, I do understand in regards to travel fatigue and weighing between this show and Munich. Having gone to Munich, that show is a must since it may attract the heavy spenders, but perhaps not the diehard head-fi consumer as you would see attend this show.

Cheers

I hit the travel wall, and I do have stuff to do in the office like making sure VOCE ships, etc. Wish I could do all the shows, but there are too many packed into too short a time.

I’m here right now listening to the VOCE. I don’t know if I’ll say it’s lacking treble but it’s definitely a warm fluid approach that’s treble mild but not lacking. A little more treble sparkle will help at least to my preference.

The staging is also a little smaller than SR-009S.

I’d put it more in the musty than than airy crisp category.

I’ve got the volume cranked up on the BHSE & whilst there’s sufficient volume I feel the VOCA is asking for more grunt to kick start it. Wonder how it’ll sound off a DIY T2?

We DEFINITELY wanted a warmer tone and less energy up top. In fact, I believe that the approach we took decreases brightness but increases resolution. See comment below...

Nice write-up @headinclouds agree mostly... :L3000:

After some longer listening periods I at first thought the Voce were "missing" something as there appeared to be holes in the sound I was hearing. However after some time comparing I believe what I am hearing is slightly different (more defined?) transitions going up and down the frequency scale. Not sure if that made sense, but the upshot is that I can hear details in-between that are hidden with the smoother presentation of the 009. Example is that I can hear fingers on guitar strings in some tracks with Voce that I can not hear with the 009.

The Voce are IMO right up there in the same league as the others. On the whole, I would put them just shy of the 009 in sound and comfort, they are ahead of the 007MKI in sound and slightly behind in comfort.
I think the comfort is good, but, after a few hours the pads have a more pronounced feeling of pressing into my big noggin, I notice them (or they make themselves known) more than the pads on the other two. I think it is due to the narrowness of the surface of the pad that sits on my skin. The 009 pad is softer and about 22-24mm wide where the Voce is slightly stiffer and 15-17mm wide.

Oh, a comment on the box, mostly very nicely done, one quibble is the sheet metal plate that the headphones sit on makes it a little awkward for me to get the headphones in and out of the case. I understand the need to firmly hold the headphones during shipping and all, but a less aggressive holding method would be nice for daily use. It is a very minor issue but thought I would provide feedback.

Thanks for sharing your observations. I think you hit on one of the most complex issues; our treble presentation is quite different from many 'stats. I loved the resolution of stats but I also felt that rendering of cymbals or massed strings seemed to emphasize micro-detail and harmonics to a degree that never really sounded natural to me, as if they were adding something that didn't match how I perceive live music. In tuning the highs to find a balance that worked for me I felt midrange acoustics were improved by putting more dark space between the notes/transients, so for example the rivets in a crash cymbal aren't as splashy, but are more metallic and "rattle" more. At least for people who agree with how I perceive the sound of 'stats vs live music you may find less treble "detail," but perhaps a more natural delivery, with greater resolution in the mids. Our highs are quite different, and It's probably inevitable that some people will feel we "lose something," others will feel we have "lost something that didn't belong there," and others will find that this "improved/gained something" in the process. That's what makes my job fun (and terrifying).

Thanks for the input on the box.

Lastly, to hear a good example of what VOCE can do with sub-bass, listen to Ne Video by Scann-Tec on Tidal, and turn it up a bit. VOCE will deliver more sub bass and deep bass than the other commonly mentioned headphones as SPL increases, but because the THD is so low and the driver is so linear, at levels below around 70dB it may sound like there's less bass than the 009, though I think for techno/EDM/etc VOCE can really deliver some bump. As with all things in headphones, YMMV but if you look at the measurements on innerfidelity and if you understand loudness/bass perception curves this may make sense. It's a complicated subject with many right answers based on usage, source, etc.
 
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Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
Apr 30, 2018 at 8:46 AM Post #881 of 937
I will get to hear the Voce at Munich and try and bully my own test tracks. One comment I wanted to add on the different sound you guys are commenting on. I sold my 009s recently, and before I did, I had the LCD4s v the 009s for 2 days. It was a shock. I was convinced at first the LCD4s were way off, dull and asleep. But I stuck with them and after a few hours my feet were tapping and I was felt very at ease with them. I began to hear new details, mainly in the upper mids that I didn't notice in the 009s. And of course vocals were magical, gone the coldish presentation. What I am saying is don't rush it, give the Voce sometime. And run them without the A/B for a while. Then after a fews days, pop the 009s back on. You may find your brain / ears have re-set. After 5 years on the 009s (and enjoying them) I had locked into that sound, assumed it was accurate in my view. The LCD4s for me are more like my big speakers, full and solid, lots of body and dynamics. If I was cash rich, I would probably run Planars and Stats to suit my mood.

Keep the impressions coming guys....
 
Apr 30, 2018 at 9:41 AM Post #882 of 937
I listened to the HE-1 system and then the Voce at CanJam in NYC (back to back), and, while I can't recall specifics as to how they compare, the biggest compliment I can pay the Voce is that it didn't seem too far off in quality and presentation. Not at all. The Voce, like the HE-1, doesn't strive for that typical e-stat sound either. The Voce is also extremely comfortable and has a cool, modern design.
 
May 1, 2018 at 7:57 PM Post #883 of 937
Thanks for sharing your observations. I think you hit on one of the most complex issues; our treble presentation is quite different from many 'stats. I loved the resolution of stats but I also felt that rendering of cymbals or massed strings seemed to emphasize micro-detail and harmonics to a degree that never really sounded natural to me, as if they were adding something that didn't match how I perceive live music. In tuning the highs to find a balance that worked for me I felt midrange acoustics were improved by putting more dark space between the notes/transients, so for example the rivets in a crash cymbal aren't as splashy, but are more metallic and "rattle" more. At least for people who agree with how I perceive the sound of 'stats vs live music you may find less treble "detail," but perhaps a more natural delivery, with greater resolution in the mids. Our highs are quite different, and It's probably inevitable that some people will feel we "lose something," others will feel we have "lost something that didn't belong there," and others will find that this "improved/gained something" in the process. That's what makes my job fun (and terrifying).

Thanks for the input on the box.

Lastly, to hear a good example of what VOCE can do with sub-bass, listen to Ne Video by Scann-Tec on Tidal, and turn it up a bit. VOCE will deliver more sub bass and deep bass than the other commonly mentioned headphones as SPL increases, but because the THD is so low and the driver is so linear, at levels below around 70dB it may sound like there's less bass than the 009, though I think for techno/EDM/etc VOCE can really deliver some bump. As with all things in headphones, YMMV but if you look at the measurements on innerfidelity and if you understand loudness/bass perception curves this may make sense. It's a complicated subject with many right answers based on usage, source, etc.
Yep, that explains it much better than I ever could.
I liked the Ne Video some very interesting things in that track. Will be adding that to my list and see what else they have to offer.

@astrostar59 that is pretty much what I have been doing lately, listening for a longer period of time to the Voce and then switcing tot he 009 or 007 MkII to see the difference. I think I will wait a few more weeks and then go through the whole comparison thing again, give the Voce a nice long extended listen to really get used to them, then switch things up to see the contrast.
 
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May 2, 2018 at 2:12 PM Post #884 of 937
Dan Clark Audio Make every day a fun day filled with music and friendship! Stay updated on Dan Clark Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
@funCANS MrSpeakers https://danclarkaudio.com info@danclarkaudio.com
May 2, 2018 at 3:07 PM Post #885 of 937
After a few more days with the Voce, I find it seems to be “running in” and I am enjoying listening with it more and more. My early impressions were that I noted a “tidy, more intimate soundstage. I enjoyed the tone and clarity of instruments and voices.”.

I had noticed a clearer delineation of instruments and voices. Now this has become more noticeable and each musician is given a clear identity and so I can follow what each is doing and how they relate as musicians. There is less “hash”, less “noise” and this is what I was sensing when I mentioned the tone and clarity of instruments. The sound stage has developed over the last few days and last evening I listened to a couple of old favourite albums with great pleasure. The intention of the musicians was brought home and I was foot tapping happily.

I'd say they're a very good ES - a real viable alternative - and offer congratulations and thanks to Dan and his team.
 
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