[blessingx]

This list comes out a couple times a year. See this one.

Older lists:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=181766
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146729
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124867
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91504
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89602

 

[Ypoknons]

Played with it at best buy. The spectrum on the front LCD (instead of album artwork) is a welcome reminder of late 90's home stereo systems - but then, for tiny speakers I have a N73 mobile phone anyways.

 

[CHINABOY1021]

ipod's product is not only an mp3 player, but it's a marketing campaign. until another company has both, there will be no "ipod killer".

im just annoyed by people keep using that term with inaccuracy.

 

[uzziah]

i love the term ipodkiller; you know that it's destined to fail as soon as it gets that determination




btw: that thing looks ****ing stupid, absolutely NO ONE wants a big old speaker on their dap, making it thick; ridiculous; the touch controls still don't have apple's finesse; i wish someone would just break down and make a donut like ipod has; i mean, c'mon, it's a great interface

 

[timmins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah i love the term ipodkiller; you know that it's destined to fail as soon as it gets that determination btw: that thing looks ****ing stupid, absolutely NO ONE wants a big old speaker on their dap, making it thick; ridiculous; the touch controls still don't have apple's finesse; i wish someone would just break down and make a donut like ipod has; i mean, c'mon, it's a great interface

The term Ipod killer is definately over used, there is no way any dap will be doing that in the near future, but what this list does (click the link) is really show every half decent player available to the american market. I think lists lke this great, they expose the general public to a whole new sector of electronics, and allows them to pick a player that may suit their needs or wants better than the ipod.

I also beg to differ in regards to your last point. You clearly haven't been a student for a while. When "chillin" with friends in a park or lunchroom, a device like this would not only be extremely useful but also extremely eye catching.


edit. if you read the link. The authers don't actually thing any of these daps will overtake the ipod. They're labeling any player that will take away from apples market share, an ipod killer. In a sense, it makes sense.

 

[cmirza]

One would have to either be delusional or have enormous pockets (Microsoft) to call their product an 'iPod Killer'. Nothing on that list will even touch the iPod, most of them look like they'll be in the discount bin of BestBuy by next January. The Zune might once Microsoft gets around to Zune v2 or v3. But I don't think anyone could take their exisiting products and think to seriously compete with the iPod, even with the same amount of marketing dollars.

iPod's most major appeal is its incredibly simple interface. The scrolling 'clickwheel' interface is so easy to use and makes finding any song a brief endeavor. The problem every other manufacturer has is emulating that interface without breaching Apple's patents. No one even dares copy Apple's 'clickwheel' in fear of a major lawsuit staring back at them. Thats why the closest you'll ever see is the 'vertical scrolling pad' like the Zen Vision M, Zen Sleek and Zen Micro have. Which is nice, but no where near as quick and simple as the 'clickwheel'. So while every other manufacturer tries to shove every possible feature into their device, making it more and more complex, Apple sits still with their simple and easy device and sells them by the boatload.

iPod's second major asset is its style. Jonathan Ive & Co. are pretty much untouchable at what they do. I don't think anyone has given boring computers and consumer electronics so much style. Not even behemoths like Dell and Microsoft been able to create devices with such aesthetic appeal.

The third asset Apple has is the huge 3rd party accessory market the iPod has. While this pretty much correlates directly with market share, but it's still incredibly important when someone is making a decision about buying a new or replacment DAP. A Zen Vision M that has just a few adapters and cases or an iPod which has a plethora of accessories for it?

Now, after all of that I think marketing comes in fourth as far as importance to the iPod's success. While marketing is very important, I don't think Apple would have the huge lead it has if they were spending the same amount of marketing dollars on the same product as Creative or Sony. They might still have a lead but it would more likely be much more marginal.

Thats just how I see it anyway.

 

[timmins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmirza One would have to either be delusional or have enormous pockets (Microsoft) to call their product an 'iPod Killer'. Nothing on that list will even touch the iPod, most of them look like they'll be in the discount bin of BestBuy by next January. The Zune might once Microsoft gets around to Zune v2 or v3. But I don't think anyone could take their exisiting products and think to seriously compete with the iPod, even with the same amount of marketing dollars. iPod's most major appeal is its incredibly simple interface. The scrolling 'clickwheel' interface is so easy to use and makes finding any song a brief endeavor. The problem every other manufacturer has is emulating that interface without breaching Apple's patents. No one even dares copy Apple's 'clickwheel' in fear of a major lawsuit staring back at them. Thats why the closest you'll ever see is the 'vertical scrolling pad' like the Zen Vision M, Zen Sleek and Zen Micro have. Which is nice, but no where near as quick and simple as the 'clickwheel'. So while every other manufacturer tries to shove every possible feature into their device, making it more and more complex, Apple sits still with their simple and easy device and sells them by the boatload. iPod's second major asset is its style. Jonathan Ive & Co. are pretty much untouchable at what they do. I don't think anyone has given boring computers and consumer electronics so much style. Not even behemoths like Dell and Microsoft been able to create devices with such aesthetic appeal. The third asset Apple has is the huge 3rd party accessory market the iPod has. While this pretty much correlates directly with market share, but it's still incredibly important when someone is making a decision about buying a new or replacment DAP. A Zen Vision M that has just a few adapters and cases or an iPod which has a plethora of accessories for it? Now, after all of that I think marketing comes in fourth as far as importance to the iPod's success. While marketing is very important, I don't think Apple would have the huge lead it has if they were spending the same amount of marketing dollars on the same product as Creative or Sony. They might still have a lead but it would more likely be much more marginal. Thats just how I see it anyway.

I agree with everything except the second paragraph in regards to apples styling. The style you are talking about is a direct result of marketing, the older white ipod are tacky, boring and disgusting (they're white plactic with matte grey accents, were not in the seventies any more) Ipods are or at least were extremely ugly, but many were brainwashed through marketing, thanks to steve "the spindoctor" Jobs into seeing them as aesthetically pleasing.

 

[TenaciousO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmirza iPod's most major appeal is its incredibly simple interface. The scrolling 'clickwheel' interface is so easy to use and makes finding any song a brief endeavor. The problem every other manufacturer has is emulating that interface without breaching Apple's patents. No one even dares copy Apple's 'clickwheel' in fear of a major lawsuit staring back at them. Thats why the closest you'll ever see is the 'vertical scrolling pad' like the Zen Vision M, Zen Sleek and Zen Micro have. Which is nice, but no where near as quick and simple as the 'clickwheel'. So while every other manufacturer tries to shove every possible feature into their device, making it more and more complex, Apple sits still with their simple and easy device and sells them by the boatload.

I'm not sure if you've had the chance to try a pmc device, but the Toshiba Gigabeat S is the first device I've used that rivals the elegance, simplicity, and execution of the ipod with regard to its navigation and its interface. Considering that the Zune's interface seems even more polished than that of the Gigabeat S, I don't think that the ipod's interface will be the trump card in its battle (complete exaggeration) with the Zune.

That said, I agree with you that there is no real ipodkiller and that the Zune will fail as well. The Zune may well end up being a nice device, but I see nothing groundbreaking about it that would compel consumers to gravitate towards it over the well-known ipod because all the so-called "improvements" that Microsoft boasts about the Zune over the ipod come with negative aspects that diminish its appeal. Microsoft boasts wifi, but it's crippled. It has as larger screen, but the device itself is larger as well. It has the incredibly easy to use PMC interface, but WMP11 is aggravating to use. Apple got the formula right the first time and because its presence is so pervasive in the market, there won't be an ipodkiller until either Apple screws up royally on its own or someone offers a device that is truly groundbreaking and not something that merely offers minor "improvements."

 

[zip22]

the zune wont use wmp11. it has its own software.

people thought the ipod looked good before they started marketing. save the brainwashing argument for politics.

 

[TenaciousO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 the zune wont use wmp11. it has its own software.

That's a good start but not enough.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenaciousO Apple got the formula right the first time and because its presence is so pervasive in the market, there won't be an ipodkiller until either Apple screws up royally on its own or someone offers a device that is truly groundbreaking and not something that merely offers minor "improvements."

I respectfully disagree. It took about three generations for the iPod to really shine with the masses; mass market interest and cash-in didn't really occur (arguably) until the fourth generation. If Microsoft shows some unfaltering dedication to the Zune and releases several iterations, I would imagine they'd have quite a formidable product in a few generations.

 

[TenaciousO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 I respectfully disagree. It took about three generations for the iPod to really shine with the masses; mass market interest and cash-in didn't really occur (arguably) until the fourth generation. If Microsoft shows some unfaltering dedication to the Zune and releases several iterations, I would imagine they'd have quite a formidable product in a few generations.

I'm sorry. What I meant was that Apple was the first to get it right.

 

[bellsprout]

what i don't get is, making an "ipod-killer" is only as hard as listening to customers. i mean how many people said "i got an ipod and my only gripe is that i cant get up on the internet with it"? how about "i wish my ipod sounds better?" surely it can't be that hard...

 

[retic3nt]

Is anyone else not in love with the clickwheel? I sometimes find it incredibly annoying when I want to scroll just one single song down and the scroll keeps overshooting the song I want and I end up spending like 5 seconds to scroll down one song

. I thought the HD-5's d-pad was way better.

 

[erlik]

Quote:

what i don't get is, making an "ipod-killer" is only as hard as listening to customers. i mean how many people said "i got an ipod and my only gripe is that i cant get up on the internet with it"? how about "i wish my ipod sounds better?" surely it can't be that hard...

The problem when you listen to consumers is that they all seems to want different things. You seems to want wireless, I on the other hand would prefer a larger screen for video watching... Some other peoples prefer a player that's as small as possible, some other would prefer long battery life, some want it cheap, some put SQ above all etc...

A lot of these are mutually exclusive, as you can't have a large screen if the player is small, and it would be difficult to get excellent bettery life out of a DAP that uses wireless constantly.

I think the reason the ipod is successfull as a mass market item is that it manages to balance the features in such a way that very few peoples would see any deal breakers in it: it's not too big, battery life is reasonable, the screen is small but of good quality, the SQ is good, the interface and iTunes are easy to use and the new price is very reasonable. It doesn't have anything great but is has very little wrong (maybe that's what's great about it).