[Thommohawk]

Basically I'm getting an ASUS Xonar ST soundcard and I'm running my PS3 through it which accounts for my movies, music and obviously gaming too....however I cannot seem to decide which headphone to go for as I keep changing my mind and yet I have the same 3 or 4 headphones to decide from which doesn't change.
 
Having trouble deciding out of:
 
Beyerdynamic 880 Pro
 
Beyerdynamic 990 Pro (250ohm)
 
Sennheiser HD 595
 
or if on sale for around £175 
 
Sennheiser HD 650
 
I've mostly ever only owned Sennheiser products but I know some of them do lack bass (HD 215 from personal experience other than that was fantastic for me but couldnt do with lack of bass!) but I currently own the Koss Porta Pro and I quite like the sound quality and am happy with the bass on it....but I really want some comfy over ears again....also I listen mostly to 90's rock music and some 90's electronic rock (prodigy) I have a budget of around £200 max - I could go higher but frankly I'm not willing to do so for a pair of headphones. Also I'll probably be buying an amp for the headphones down the line at around £100. Any advice ?

 

[apatN]

I found the HD600 suitable for music only. The HD650 has the same sound sig so I won't recommend you that one.
 
The 595s are probably a good choice, though admittedly they are the lesser sounding of all the options you gave us. Read a bit into the Beyers (is there a reason you want the Pro versions btw?). The 880 sounds more neutral while the DT990 sounds more thumping due to emphasized bass and treble.

 

[Thommohawk]

Yeah I've been reading on the forums (and asking) and I come to the same consensus in that the Beyers seem to be the ones to go for out of the handful I've mentioned.....the reason I want the Pro version is simply that at the moment I cannot seem to justify double the money and certainly near £300 for a headphone that sounds a little better and is built a little better (aluminum) when I can get basically the same thing for half that price. As much as I'd like to be I'm not made of money lol - but saying this I want to be able to just get the 990 Premium and have done with it with it's aluminum build - but I just cannot bring myself to pull the trigger when there's much cheaper alternatives which are probably just as good to my ear.....as you can see I'm naturally leaning more towards the 990 headphone because of the extra bass and treble. What worries me about the Sennheiser's - mainly the 595 - is the headbands cracking. I do not want to pay anywhere near £100 for a pair of headphones that could crack within six months! So the 595's are out I think....can't buy any for a month or two as I have other commitments but when I get the chance it's looking like the Beyer 990 Pro at the moment if anything.

 

[maverickronin]

After trying lots of stuff at canjam, I ordered some DT990/600 premiums for similar purposes, music, movies, and some games.  Haven't got here yet though.

 

[Thommohawk]

Cool....would you be so kind as to PM me your findings ? Obviously I'd like to know what you think of them and with me being new here it's hard to identify anybody right now lol.
 
Obviously you don't have to, but I sure would appreciate it. 

 

[maverickronin]

You're not a whole lot newer than me.  I was just lucky enough for canjam to be nearby, and since I was looking for a new pair of 'phones, going was a no-brainier.
 
I was looking for a comfy pair of full size headphones that would be more convenient to use around the house than my SE530s that I use all day, every day at work.  I wanted something that would be a little more 'fun' than my SE530s, with the thud and blunder to make movie and game effects entertaining without ruining the rest of the spectrum.
 
As for the other contenders...
 
I loved everything about the HD650s except for the mild bass impact.  The DT880s are a little bright and go deep with a little more impact than the HD650s, but not nearly as much as the 990s.  The Denon D2000s may be a little out of you price range, I'm not sure what they go for over there.  They have just about as much bass as the 990s (maybe more, I auditioned them on different amps) but are less bright and more warm.  I liked the overall tone on the Denons a lot.  I though the Audio Technica M50s were similar to the D2000s, but not as smooth.
 
I'd probably avoid the 880/990 pros.  Those are the 250 ohm versions which aren't supposed to sound as good as the 600 ohm versions.  Unfortunately I didn't always know which model I was listening to, since they look identical, and I didn't bring my multimeter.  The pair of 990s which I think were 250 ohms sounded outright bad.  The bass was flabby and the highs were shrill, but most of all the mids were very recessed.  I was listening to The Spirit of Radio, by Rush, which I've heard many time but not quite enough to know the lyrics by heart, and I could barely make out the lyrics at all.  The ones I was told were for sure 600 ohms, had none of those problems.
 
You might want to consider the DT770 pros in 80 or 250 ohms.  I haven' heard them personally but they are supposed to have plenty of bass and sound pretty good otherwise too.  These seem to be the exception to Beyer's 'the more ohms the better' rule.  I'm not sure if there is a difference between the 80s and the 250s though

 

[NapalmK]

Definitely go for the 600 ohm DT990. I have a pair of 250 ohms and I honestly can't listen to them for any length of time because of the treble. I'm fine with the bass as it seems fairly punchy but that treble is a killer. Good clarity and soundstage though.
 
I also have the DT770 Pro 80ohm and they are decent but I can't get past the boomy bass. It's not too terribly boomy but enough to bother me. They also have a lot more bass than the Denons or DT990s. They are perfect for movies and games but for music they are not my favorite.
 
I'll also recommend the Denons maverick mentioned. I have a pair and really enjoy them. The bass isn't quite as tight as some other cans but I wouldn't call it flabby or boomy by any means (this could just be due to the speed as they are a bit slower than the DT990). To me they sound smooth and natural. I'd say the bass on the D2000s and DT990s are just about equal quantity wise.

 

[HariBhushan]

Quote:

Definitely go for the 600 ohm DT990. I have a pair of 250 ohms and I honestly can't listen to them for any length of time because of the treble. I'm fine with the bass as it seems fairly punchy but that treble is a killer. Good clarity and soundstage though.
 
 

And what makes you think the 600ohms are any better? I have the DT990/600 that i purchased last month from B&H and i can't listen to them for more than 45 min because of its sharp spikes/brightness and over-done treble in the upper registers. The same thing happens to my DT880/600 as well. And yes, i have a woo audio 3 amp and a decent source, so i know my equipment is not the problem.
 
I have lost all faith in beyerdynamic, I am probably going to buy a ATH-m50 and see how those are. Anything to get away from beyers treble = heaven to my ears

 

[NapalmK]

Well FWIR the 250 ohms are supposedly much more sibilant than the 600 ohm variant but if you're having problems with treble on the 600 ohms they may not be my cup of tea after all. I'd read that the 600 ohms had some sparkle but not enough to be fatiguing. I guess YMMV but now I'm going to have to do a bit more research for my next purchase.

 

[Mr Joboto]

 
Quote:

I also have the DT770 Pro 80ohm and they are decent but I can't get past the boomy bass. It's not too terribly boomy but enough to bother me. They also have a lot more bass than the Denons or DT990s. They are perfect for movies and games but for music they are not my favorite.

I totally agree with you on this one Napalm, can't use them for my music. Love their movie performance though.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
And what makes you think the 600ohms are any better? I have the DT990/600 that i purchased last month from B&H and i can't listen to them for more than 45 min because of its sharp spikes/brightness and over-done treble in the upper registers. The same thing happens to my DT880/600 as well. And yes, i have a woo audio 3 amp and a decent source, so i know my equipment is not the problem.
 
I have lost all faith in beyerdynamic, I am probably going to buy a ATH-m50 and see how those are. Anything to get away from beyers treble = heaven to my ears

The 990/600 belonging to a fellow head-fier I listened to sounded a lot better than the 990 of unknown impedance I listened to at the Beyer table (that guy manning it was such an idiot...).  The 990s of unknown impedance had shrill treble, buried under 6' of dirt midrange, and bass that sounded like you attached a subwoofer voice coil to a giant piece of sheet metal.  The known 600s had deep, tight, and impactful bass, an ever so slightly recessed midrange, and a bit of sparkly treble that don't think would get too fatiguing, but I didn't get to listen long enough to find out.  The 'unknown' 990 could have been a 32 ohm, a 250 ohm, or a 600 ohm that needed a lot of break in, but I think it was a 250.  They guy at the Beyer table said it was brand new and a 600, but it didn't need any more juice than another pair he said was a 250 and less the the T1s, so I'm assuming he didn't know jack.  Especially since they weren't labeled.  I'll know if the third option is true when my DT990/600s come in tomorrow.
 
Also, you couldn't really call me a treble fiend either, considering my current phones, which I like an awful lot.
 
You'll probably like the M50s though.  They don't have much in the way of sparkle.  You could try adding some felt before you go to the trouble of selling one pair of 'phones and buying another.  It'll only cost a few bucks to try.
 

 

[HariBhushan]

Quote:

Quote:

The 990/600 belonging to a fellow head-fier I listened to sounded a lot better than the 990 of unknown impedance I listened to at the Beyer table (that guy manning it was such an idiot...).  The 990s of unknown impedance had shrill treble, buried under 6' of dirt midrange, and bass that sounded like you attached a subwoofer voice coil to a giant piece of sheet metal.  The known 600s had deep, tight, and impactful bass, an ever so slightly recessed midrange, and a bit of sparkly treble that don't think would get too fatiguing, but I didn't get to listen long enough to find out.  The 'unknown' 990 could have been a 32 ohm, a 250 ohm, or a 600 ohm that needed a lot of break in, but I think it was a 250.  They guy at the Beyer table said it was brand new and a 600, but it didn't need any more juice than another pair he said was a 250 and less the the T1s, so I'm assuming he didn't know jack.  Especially since they weren't labeled.  I'll know if the third option is true when my DT990/600s come in tomorrow.
 
Also, you couldn't really call me a treble fiend either, considering my current phones, which I like an awful lot.
 
You'll probably like the M50s though.  They don't have much in the way of sparkle.  You could try adding some felt before you go to the trouble of selling one pair of 'phones and buying another.  It'll only cost a few bucks to try.
 

 generally, I'm a beginner and not really good at  trying these sort of  mods, so I rather avoid it as much as i can. + luck is generally not on my side when it comes to these kind of things 

 
As for as the DT990/600's, i really really did wanted to love them. The bass is really well done and as you said; is tight, deep, punchy and heaps loads of fun to listen to. It's just those darn treble spikes that are ruining it for me. I really do love the soundstage, comfort and everything that the beyers offer to the table, i just can't bear those screeching tones, sharp bells, and high pitched treble noises. Maybe my ears are sensitive to them--who knows, but generally, the smoother the better and this is something the beyers don't do for me.
 
And I'm not the only one who are reporting these type of problems, many have commented about it in the past. Maybe some love it that way, but there is just too much treble shizzle on the beyers for me to enjoy.  Generally, It's not too noticable in movies/games, but it ruins it music wise.
 
I have read your prior posts macaverion, you have also said something about eq'ing the beyers treble to sound good in movies.  But generally, I'm not too good at EQ and would like something smooth and flat from the get-go.

Many are praising the ATH-M50, so i thought I'd give those a try before selling my beyers. If those don't go well, it seems the final option is the Sennheiser HD650, and if that fails as well... ......... well.............. then it's time find me the most expensive pair of flat STAX lambada.......... and if that fails.....I guess it's back to 8 dollar ear buds

 

 

[maverickronin]

The 'mod' in that link I was talking about was just cutting a circle of felt to size and placing it under the pad.  Dead simple and 100% reversible.  I'm not trying to force them on you or anything.  Just maybe save you a little time, money, hassle.
 
If you decide not to try that or can't get it to work, then I definitely think you'd like like the M50s over the HD650s, if you're looking for some bass impact.  I loved everything else about the HD650s and I think they're better in just about every other area over both the M50 and the DT990, but they're missing the oomph I prefer.
 
Also where was I talking about EQ?  It wasn't in this thread.

 

[HariBhushan]

Quote:

The 'mod' in that link I was talking about was just cutting a circle of felt to size and placing it under the pad.  Dead simple and 100% reversible.  I'm not trying to force them on you or anything.  Just maybe save you a little time, money, hassle.
 
If you decide not to try that or can't get it to work, then I definitely think you'd like like the M50s over the HD650s, if you're looking for some bass impact.  I loved everything else about the HD650s and I think they're better in just about every other area over both the M50 and the DT990, but they're missing the oomph I prefer.
 
Also where was I talking about EQ?  It wasn't in this thread.

I recalled reading something you wrote a couple days ago, that's why i brought it up. It was on this thread
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/495687/help-me-decide-dt-990-vs-hd-650
 
in the last post, you said about eq'ing the treble was easier than boosting the bass on the senn's.
 
 
Quote:

I demoed both yesterday and I'd prefer the 990s for movies.  It'll get you about as close as you can get to room shaking explosions with 'phones, if you watch lots of action movies and what not.  With you EQ you can 'file off' the treble peak on the Beyers easier that you could EQ up the bass on the 650s.  If you mostly watch calmer movies than you'll probably like the 650s better though.

 
 
 
 
The felt thingy looks fairl simply, but i rather not mess around with it, neither do i have much time to be shopping around nowadays since I'm stomped with other things.
 
I definitely do want something with a little meat in it. This is something the DT880's don't have; they might be great all-rounders with awesome details and with tight bass, but it's not authoritive and doesn't pack in quite the punch that I'm looking for as my DT990's do since i listen to a-lot of electronica, rock, rap, pop, club, mainstream,etc...
 
I think going from the 990's to the ATH-M50 would be a downgrade, but as long as the treble is smooth, I'm totally fine by it. I wouldn't wanna rush on the Sennheiser HD650 too fast tho. Some say they are bass light, some say they are bass heavy. Some say it's only for classical, but generally, I'm looking for a can that actually sounds decent, fun, punchy(as you said) without having too many flaws or being too bass-extremeist oriented.
 
We'll see what happens when the ATH-m50's come along. I'll be looking towards your impressions and opionions on your DT990's ! 

 

[maverickronin]

Oh, ok.  That's what you meant.  Different thread.
 
My point was that's its easier to EQ something down, than up, if you feel the need to EQ in the first place.  If you EQ down something like a treble peak, you are subtracting from the signal and reducing the overall average amplitude of the signal.  Doing it the other way around will increase the overall amplitude of the signal and will likely cause the driver to distort or make the signal clip inside the software.
 
My main point was just that it's a lot easier to take something away with EQ than it is to add something that isn't there in the first place.  Not that you have to EQ or anything.  If you do EQ away the treble peak on the 990s the only major drawback is that you might not be able to replicate or use it with every source (music program, movie program, TV, whatever) but if you try to EQ the bass on the HD650s to DT990 levels it will at minimum cause the driver to distort a little bit, and it will probably distort enough to be completely unlistenable.
 
It's about 10 more hours till the mail usually comes and I can't sleep again at all (getting far to close to "as usual") so I can post some impressions later if you're interested.