Moth 2A3 or Yammy - Two Questions
Jul 26, 2008 at 4:27 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

bcjohnst

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I've been looking for a Moth 2A3 for months--haven't seen any. Is this an impossible task? Has anyone compared the Moth to the Yamamoto HA-02? What were your listening impressions?
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 5:13 AM Post #2 of 20

wower

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Both are pretty scarce in the world of head-fi. You'll be lucky to find anyone with experience in both. Generally I consider the moth similar the yammy, abet at a higher price point IIRC. (I'm basing my comments on the performance of the EC ZD) So with that you get a better PS and better performance throughout the entire freq range. While the yammy is no slouch in the highs and lows, its the midrange the shines on the unit. Which is enough for where my budget can take me now. Small scale chamber music is quite breath taking in its balance, coherence and transparency. You did mention what phones you are using? I think the scarcity of the Moth on the used market speaks volumes of quality.
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 2:00 PM Post #3 of 20

jeffreyj900

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You can do an advanced search for Moth only in title in the FS Amplifier section. They have come up in the past, but not regularly. I didn't pull the trigger fast enough on the last one that came up for sale sadly. I am in on this run of the Zana Duex, and should have it in the next couple of weeks.

Jeff
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM Post #4 of 20

bcjohnst

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I'm looking to pair an amp with some ATH-W1000s I just picked up. But I also have some RS-1s that I have on a very long-term loan. One thing I like about the Moth is that it can be modified to run 45s, which is my favorite tube AND you can play it through speakers or headphones. Now that I think about it, the Moth makes more sense because I can use my source components in my speaker-based system (like my LP12) and run headphones, that way I'm not stuck just listening to the music on my iPod. The Zana Deux is a nice looking amp too, but I've never heard the 6C33C-B. How does it compare with the 2A3 or 45?
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 5:07 PM Post #5 of 20

jeffreyj900

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I liked the Moth because I would eventually like to get into speakers. THIS review may be of interest to you. You also might find some comparisons in the ZD threads. There are members that have heard/owned both. I have not had the opportunity to listen to either
tongue.gif
 
Jul 26, 2008 at 6:58 PM Post #6 of 20

Uncle Erik

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Both are pretty scarce in the world of head-fi. You'll be lucky to find anyone with experience in both. Generally I consider the moth similar the yammy, abet at a higher price point IIRC. (I'm basing my comments on the performance of the EC ZD) So with that you get a better PS and better performance throughout the entire freq range. While the yammy is no slouch in the highs and lows, its the midrange the shines on the unit. Which is enough for where my budget can take me now. Small scale chamber music is quite breath taking in its balance, coherence and transparency. You did mention what phones you are using? I think the scarcity of the Moth on the used market speaks volumes of quality.


The Moth 2A3 isn't the same as the Zana. IIRC, the 2A3 has transformers on the output, while the Zana is OTL. I have not heard the Moth 2A3, but I can say that the Zana does not have that "tubey" triode on transformer sound. I would think the 2A3 to have quite a noticeably different character. I also think there are people here who have compared the two - if you run a few searches you should find their comments.

Also, the Moth units rarely come up for sale. There weren't many made in the first place and most owners keep them. The last time I saw one come up, I put in a firm offer for the asking price within eight minutes of listing. Didn't get it.

I think the HA-02 is still in production, though, and should be easier to get.
 
Jul 27, 2008 at 12:11 AM Post #8 of 20

wower

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Well I think the Moth 2A3 and ZD have a somewhat similar sound coming from the same shop and all but its just speculation on both our parts. I was trying to stress that in regards to single ended amps, its hard to do better than the yammy unless you look to the moth or ZD, which is a step up in SQ IMO. (I'd definely look at the ZD if I was going to stay SE). But the conclusion of both our posts is that availability is going to be a much bigger factor at this point.
 
Jul 28, 2008 at 3:20 PM Post #9 of 20

recstar24

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I am with Uncle Erik on this one, the two have a pretty different character of sound, yes I have owned both of them and had them here at the same time. In fact, I am the writer of the review linked above.

If you take the time to read through the review, I make my observations pretty clear. What Uncle Erik alludes to as the transformer coupled, tube triode sound is what gives the amp its beautiful tonal and musical character. The Zana Deux however is faster, cleaner, and more transparent, while still being very musical and flowing. The moth, for lack of a better word, has a more "wet" sound, which I personally thought was really good sounding. The moth benefitted from a pretty ridiculous power supply which made the amp sound more potent than its 2a3/45 watts would tell you. I have not heard the yammy, sorry.
 
Jul 28, 2008 at 3:29 PM Post #10 of 20

recstar24

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One more thing - there is only one version of the moth that can run 2a3 and 45 tubes, Craig made a special batch of moth 2a3's that featured an outboard transformer, better power supply, and ability to run 2a3 or 45 tubes with the turn of a switch. Absolute beautiful sounding, probably the one amp I find more pleasurable than my ZD, and would buy in a heartbeat, except there are only 5 that exist
smily_headphones1.gif
(One of them is in the chicagoland area, no he will not sell it, yes I have asked). With that particular amp the 45 tube is incredibly sublime, as fast and accurate and detailed as the ZD but has the wet full bodied tonality that you hear with the 2a3.

If you found the normal moth 2a3 that is a great amp as I loved it when I had her, but one forewarning - the power transformer is in the same chassis as the output transformers, and there is some closeness of proximity, which generates a slight hum into the output. To my ears the hum was low enough to be cancelled out by the normal background noise inherent in most recordings, but it is present, which can be heard with the grados and other low impedance cans. With hi impedance like the Senns there is no hum. That is one of the reasons why Craig designed the moth si2a3/45H, by taking the transformer out of the main chassis and improving the power supply further, he sougt to meet the more stringent demands for noise that headphone usage requires. I have asked him about modifying a 2a3 to 2a3/45H spec and he seemed ok with it at the time, but I believe it would cost you a pretty penny, if you were able to convince him otherwise.

As you read above, you may be more inclined to just go with the yammy. Its definitely a bit of a journey with moth gear. Whereas I have no regret seling my moth 2a3 for the ZD, if I had a chance at a moth si2a3/45H or knew Craig would be ok modifying a 2a3 to 2a3/45H spec I would eat it up in a heartbeat.
 
Jul 29, 2008 at 11:07 AM Post #11 of 20

wower

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Come one, help the OP! I know they are different amps. And if the OP is thinking critically, he'll know they sound different. And if he's thinking logically, which I have every intenion he is, he'll know there will be some similarities between both compared to the yammy. I'm trying to widen the circle from which the OP could possibly take info. Help the poor guy!
 
Jul 29, 2008 at 3:48 PM Post #12 of 20

recstar24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Come one, help the OP! I know they are different amps. And if the OP is thinking critically, he'll know they sound different. And if he's thinking logically, which I have every intenion he is, he'll know there will be some similarities between both compared to the yammy. I'm trying to widen the circle from which the OP could possibly take info. Help the poor guy!


That is fine to widen the circle of info, but when the two amps are completely different and sound different (even though they are from the same designer), that can actually be more harmful and a case of misinformation. Hence why Uncle Erik commented with his background experience and technical experience with his work on tube amps and radios, and why I commented on my actual owning and listening experience of both amps. For example, let's say someone wanted to compare the Grado GS-1000 to the Sennheiser HD650. According to your logic, the comparison of the Grado RS-1 to 650 carries weight if considering the GS1000 vs. hd650. Considering the GS1000 and RS-1 are very different and a completely different take on sound (even though they are both grados), can you see how making that connection without any listening experience can be somewhat misleading? Please do not take offense, again it all centers on helping the original poster.

Back to OP - good luck, if you find a moth, it will probably go within minutes. The yammy is much easier to procure. If you do snag a moth, it will retain its value immensely and should be able to resell at the same price you got it if not more. Consider the moth si2a3/45H, there are only 5 I believe, and is arguably one of the finest amps I have heard especially with 45 tubes. I believe there may be other 45 tube headphone amp designs out there, there are some schematics if you can source someone to DIY.
 
Jul 29, 2008 at 11:52 PM Post #13 of 20

wower

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"Completely different"?

I can only laugh at this point at how we on head-fi orbit in our own little world. Realize that 99% of the world thinks both the Moth and ZD - not to mention the yammy - sound /exactly/ the same. Only an audiophile would attempt to describe them as "completely different". But that's fine. I'm laughing. However, you say you've listened to both amps, but again miss the point that its not both amps in the OP, hence we are back to square one, hence my attempts to widen the circle with my intial post. If you think it's more harmful than good there's not much I can do except to glean with strong logic what info there is out there.

I should probably mention at this point that I love my yammy and if I wanted to stay single ended I would definately go with the ZD. Rare out of production amps don't interest me much, but thats more of a personality thing that I don't want the bother of tracking them down. So we can find some agreement there.
 
Jul 30, 2008 at 1:13 AM Post #14 of 20

Uncle Erik

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Wower, if you pick over the catalog of gear that Moth/Eddie Current has made, you will notice that Craig consistently pushes the envelope with design. Each one tends to the unconventional and novel. That's a big part of the appeal for me and I truly appreciate the different approach Craig takes. Some manufacturers take a conventional approach and can produce a "house sound" across their line. Moth/Eddie Current uses an idiosyncratic approach as a house signature. To expect the line to sound the same is to miss the point. That's not for everyone, of course, but Moth/Eddie Current is the only manufacturer I find as interesting as the DIY world.
 
Jul 30, 2008 at 5:06 AM Post #15 of 20

recstar24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wower /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"Completely different"?

I can only laugh at this point at how we on head-fi orbit in our own little world. Realize that 99% of the world thinks both the Moth and ZD - not to mention the yammy - sound /exactly/ the same. Only an audiophile would attempt to describe them as "completely different". But that's fine. I'm laughing. However, you say you've listened to both amps, but again miss the point that its not both amps in the OP, hence we are back to square one, hence my attempts to widen the circle with my intial post. If you think it's more harmful than good there's not much I can do except to glean with strong logic what info there is out there.



I am glad you got a laugh. I get a laugh as well when users feel free to post things they have never heard or make comparisons that are somewhat misleading. Great way to contribute to the community. 99% of the world wouldn't make the same mistake fortunately, but just so happens the 1% is very vocal. Last time I checked, this site contained one or two audiophiles who are able to differentiate between different sounds, who would have thought. Glean and speculate all you want, my record, posts, and reviews speak for themselves, considering the OP is even mentioning moth, he clearly knows somewhat of its history and quality. Doesn't it help him too much that 99% of the world hasn't even heard the amp and compared it to the yammy, thankfully there is some of the 1% who have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Wower, if you pick over the catalog of gear that Moth/Eddie Current has made, you will notice that Craig consistently pushes the envelope with design. Each one tends to the unconventional and novel. That's a big part of the appeal for me and I truly appreciate the different approach Craig takes. Some manufacturers take a conventional approach and can produce a "house sound" across their line. Moth/Eddie Current uses an idiosyncratic approach as a house signature. To expect the line to sound the same is to miss the point. That's not for everyone, of course, but Moth/Eddie Current is the only manufacturer I find as interesting as the DIY world.


QFT
 

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