More on RoHs
Apr 2, 2006 at 3:34 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

rickcr42

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http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/A...166/12166.html

slowly the picture is getting clearer to many but a day late and a dollar short.The only hope is enough here are paying attention to head off a certain Californication of the laws and as CA goes so goes the U.S. when other like minded/misguided do gooder use the law to force their will on folks even when it is bad law and accomplishes the opposite of the intended result
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 4:10 AM Post #2 of 16

F1GTR

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42
even when it is bad law and accomplishes the opposite of the intended result


Will you please go in to further detail on this?

I'm curious as to why you feel this way about it.
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 4:21 AM Post #3 of 16

aerius

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The short summary. You can't get good joints with lead-free solder. Electronics will have a short lifetime and fail fast. Which means lots of crap will get dumped into landfills. Note that medical, telecommunications, military, and aerospace are exempt. That's because it's impossible to build to the required reliability standards using lead-free. Basically, the consumers get shafted with shoddy goods that are guaranteed to fail in 2-5 years or so.
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 4:37 AM Post #4 of 16

kramer5150

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IMHO its scarry to think that the medical / automotive / mllitary industries non-RoHS (reliable) components will become obsolete, as part manufacturers will be forced into "RoHS only" components.... due to volume and forecast.

They state that these industries are exempt... but are they really? When the non-RoHS (reliable) parts become obsolete. They are forcing RoHS compliance into critical industries indirectly through part obsolesence.

So... electronic components in those critrical industries will eventually have a hodge-podge of RoHS and non- ROHS parts. Seems like a mess to me, I for one would not want to be a quality engineer tasked with failure analysis for those mixed-batch part components.

You add to that the known solder failures... and you have the potential for a very dangerous situation.

As a Mechanical engineer I am somewhat in-favor of this initiative... as it restricts the use of Hexavalent chromium in fabricated metal parts.

Electrically it is simply wrong and should not be enforced and mandatory.
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 10:01 AM Post #5 of 16

PinkFloyd

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This has got nothing to do with health and is all about keeping our economy turning over. Things last way too long these days and this is not good for the fat cats who want to make profit, pure and simple. If it were our health they were concerened about they would be stripping the billions of tons of lead flashing off of the roofs throughout Europe as I type this..... they're not.

Consider this a form of built in obsolescence where products will fail a lot faster than their leaded counterparts.. the idea then is to dump this broken lead free product into a landfill (they'll tell you this is "green") and the consumer to buy a new product which will also only last a relatively short time.

Think about it, this has got bugger all to do with "green" or our "health" and anyone who thinks it has is so far in cloud cuckoo land that their head must be superglued up their arse.

It's all about the usual folks....... MONEY. To the powers that be it's a great idea but the consumer, as always, will be the person who ends up paying. In the "long term" it will be GREAT for manufacturers as they will be selling a lot more (it makes sense, if things break they have to be replaced) so if they see what's going down they will actually "welcome" this directive instead of moaning about it. Thing is it's bad for the end user, period..... no good news for the consumer at all unless he wants to believe his knackered widget won't be poisoning the soil when it gets dumped in a large hole.

On an interesting note, there is talk of totally biodegradable products with a seed in them. The idea is that the "consumer" buries his own defunct widget in his back garden and when it decomposes / breaks down a plant will grow. could be an apple seed impregnated in an ipod, an acorn inside an MP3 player, a sunflower seed inside a pair of headphones.... you get the idea. And all this CRAP is supposed to make US think "oh, we really are green and saving the planet" hmmmmmmm.................

Eco pens with seed
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 10:54 AM Post #6 of 16

setmenu

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Maybe in future we will have organic electronic products. [not quite as silly as it sounds]
Mobile phones will be available in candy wrappers, use it until your credit runs
out[best before date] then eat your phone
eek.gif

Of course phones containing lot of LEDs will be popular because led are lights and non fattening!
tongue.gif



Sorry
redface.gif
 
Apr 2, 2006 at 2:29 PM Post #7 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

Will you please go in to further detail on this?

I'm curious as to why you feel this way about it.


Toss fifty years of electronic innovation into the trash and do it a new way because you must even if that way means more heavy metals in the earth and even if not orders of magnetude more trash in general.
where will all this trash go ? You can no longer recycle because this lead free product is not recylclible.You can't burn it,mash it down into sub-atomic particles,can not "vaporaize" it with a ray gun so where will it all GO ?
Into the earth as land fill so we can build homes on it ? Houses made from old DVD players ? Into the ocean for fish condos ? Garbage Art ? Schoolground equipment ? What possibly place do we have for the next generation of TRASH that as we multiply and the goods become less relaible,as third world nations advance and buy into consumerism also have their "trash" heaps what shall we DO with it ? Space trash ?
Cheap products meant to expire early so you can buy more cheap replacements.Sound familiar ?

Seems like that will be more of a nightmare than the problem this is meant ot address.


Quote:

Maybe in future we will have organic electronic products. [not quite as silly as it sounds]


maybe in the future we can fly.Maybe we can be turned into pure energy and will no longer need to eat or breath air.The future being an unknown and the potential paths infinite no one knows where we will be as a species in another century if we survive our own stupidity but you can not MANDATE progress !
All about R&D and the natural progression of technology and should not be enforced by a law until ready to be introduced and there are "steps" that we take to make changes over time,not LEAPS that leave most behind.
RoHs is an enforced experiment that is still in the early stages with the consumers as the crash test dummies.

Quote:

They state that these industries are exempt... but are they really? When the non-RoHS (reliable) parts become obsolete. They are forcing RoHS compliance into critical industries indirectly through part obsolesence.


I see you have thought on this and come up with the "flaw" in the exemption theory.To say to a certain sector they need not comply realising they will have no choice by "default" because there will be no parts available to implement that exemption means again we are ALL being lied to on a grand scale.
They know the technology is unreliable and that that can be proven,they know unreliable electronics in the medical/military/aeronautic/aerospace and other essential services industries will actually mean dead humans so for the "press",for the public who is easily led they say these industries have full exemption from compliance while all the while kowing they have no shot at finding the parts to follow that non compliant path.

More lies and this time potentially deadly ones but hey,no more lead right ?We are saved from that while hospital equipment breaks and the wings fall off of planes
very_evil_smiley.gif
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 7:55 PM Post #9 of 16

kramer5150

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Was talking about RoHS to my manager today and found out that it gets worse...

China is working on their own version of RoHS. Supposedly their version is even MORE "green" than the european version and will be even more difficult for component manufacturers to meet. Realizing they are one of the most heavily populated and poluted nations, they are taking drastic measures. I have no further information.

Mods kill this post if it in any way gets too political.

Garrett
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 8:19 PM Post #10 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150
Was talking about RoHS to my manager today and found out that it gets worse...

China is working on their own version of RoHS. Supposedly their version is even MORE "green" than the european version and will be even more difficult for component manufacturers to meet. Realizing they are one of the most heavily populated and poluted nations, they are taking drastic measures. I have no further information.



That is laughable since they are the planets worst pollution offenders and answer to no one so my guess rukes for everyone wanting to SELL them goods and not binding on their own inustries.

Quote:

Mods kill this post if it in any way gets too political.

Garrett


They will
very_evil_smiley.gif



...................but hopefully not.

This is a topic where there is a serious amount of deception going on and there is not much hard information available unless you dig.this is no accident but the industry making the best of a bad situation so putting their spin on it rather than piss everyone off with the truth
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 9:32 PM Post #11 of 16

NiceCans

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
This has got nothing to do with health and is all about keeping our economy turning over. Things last way too long these days and this is not good for the fat cats who want to make profit, pure and simple.


Hail the almighty Dollar!
[size=xx-large]$[/size]

Isn't that what it is always about, at least if you scratch below the surface?

Somewhere, somebody is lining their pockets . . . .
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 9:36 PM Post #12 of 16

PinkFloyd

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans
Hail the almighty Dollar!
[size=xx-large]$[/size]



In this instance it's more about the Euro and the Pound seeing it's a European directive and doesn't apply (yet) to the USA.
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 9:37 PM Post #13 of 16

rickcr42

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Quote:

Isn't that what it is always about, at least if you scratch below the surface?

Somewhere, somebody is lining their pockets . . . .


drive out the smaller operator who is when combined true competition to the reglar crap being sold to consumers then consolidate/merge and have total market share and if anyone dares to compete use the law against them or lower your prices to below cost until they go bankrupt while you write your losses off and lose nothing.

capitalism only works when it is fair and this is not fair
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 9:59 PM Post #15 of 16

NiceCans

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
In this instance it's more about the Euro and the Pound seeing it's a European directive and doesn't apply (yet) to the USA.


correct Mr Floyd, but I was using the generic term dollar as in money . . .
just like when folks address a mixed crowd as 'hey guys'

the point is the same, unfortunately so is the underlying greed
 

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