Moondrop in-ear monitors Impressions Thread
Mar 7, 2019 at 4:11 AM Post #1,426 of 10,704

surfgeorge

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I have the Zx2, P1 and KPE's as well. I have to admit, I'm not really hearing what I understand you are hearing. In my view, the P1 are good, but they can't quite match the KPE.

If I don't adjust the volume while changing between the P1 and KPE, the sound is a bit too loud on the KPE for me, but I don't detect any distortion (if that is what you heard). As I hear it the KPE have noticeably better clarity and a bit more detail. Overall, they also sound more natural. That is not to say that the P1 are not good out of the ZX2, it's just that the KPE sound better to me. I tested the P1 both with normal trs cable and trrs cable, with basically the same results. The volume didn't really make much of a difference as the P1 are relatively hard to drive and I find the KPE benefit from a bit more power. Listening to both, I would describe the P1 as a less clear and detailed version of the KPE. I find the sound signatures of both surprisingly similar. I am using spiral dot tips on the P1 and Symbio W peeled tips on the KPE.

That is very interesting.
Do you have the EU version of the ZX2? I understand that the EU version is greatly limited in output voltage due to some (stupid, excuse me!) EU regulations.
Yes, the P1 are really hard to drive and I need the Mojo to drive them to louder levels, max volume out of ZX2 is moderate at best. But at that low volume I actually preferred the P1 over the KPE (adjusted to roughly the same volume)
On the Mojo and at higher listening levels, I fully agree with you about the KPE being clearer and more natural sounding, although I sometimes feel that that particular combination can almost be too smooth.
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 4:18 AM Post #1,427 of 10,704

surfgeorge

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Interesting... P1 is ~50 Ohm and KPE is ~30 Ohm - from Your impressions/comparison :

...I would think that it is impedance related but actually P1 should be harder to drive. How much is the output mA difference with Your sources? I`m not talking about output voltage but mA current.
Maybe that`s one difference along with KPE being very sensitive to source gear differences and sensitivity to different recordings regarding vol. level.

Yes, the P1 is really hard to drive and has very low efficiency. But my understanding was always that single DD are pretty insensitive to output impedance. That said, the Mojo has close to 0 ohms and the ZX2 about 1,5, so both should have no influence. I need to investigate that more whan I have time...
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 5:13 AM Post #1,428 of 10,704

Isloo

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That is very interesting.
Do you have the EU version of the ZX2? I understand that the EU version is greatly limited in output voltage due to some (stupid, excuse me!) EU regulations.
Yes, the P1 are really hard to drive and I need the Mojo to drive them to louder levels, max volume out of ZX2 is moderate at best. But at that low volume I actually preferred the P1 over the KPE (adjusted to roughly the same volume)
On the Mojo and at higher listening levels, I fully agree with you about the KPE being clearer and more natural sounding, although I sometimes feel that that particular combination can almost be too smooth.

I have the Japanese version of the ZX2, so it is not volume capped. It can drive the P1's, but only just. Depending on the volume of the recording, I have to have the volume at max or close to max. But they still get loud enough for me. Whereas with the KPE, even on quiet recordings, I don't need to turn the volume up all the way.

I also used to have the Mojo. As you say it can drive the P1's with no problems. I find the ZX2 and KPE's to be a really good combination, especially with acoustic music.
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 5:22 AM Post #1,429 of 10,704

CoiL

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I also hear a clear difference blocking back vents on KP so either I am imagining things or there is a source issue at play.
Or expectation bias?
Source definitely is not an issue.
Please provide me with track where You hear difference and maybe more detailed description what changes, will try again.

single DD are pretty insensitive to output impedance.
heck yes, they are, especially when more current is needed and IEM is "power hungry".
That said, the Mojo has close to 0 ohms and the ZX2 about 1,5, so both should have no influence. I need to investigate that more whan I have time...
That exact thing can have HUGE effect on resulting sound! :wink:
My DX5X also has <0.5 Ohm output resistance.
 
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Mar 7, 2019 at 6:32 AM Post #1,430 of 10,704

jnsaudiophile

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I currently have: BGVP DMG and I am getting the CCA C16 soon. I'm looking into getting a similar spec unit: Toneking T88k, Fearless Audio S8pro, or Moondrop A8. All are sporting 8-ba per side but the price difference between them is a bit overwhelming. Right now I'm leaning on getting the A8. How's the A8 for you guys that own it? Also I saw that someone already sold off his A8 and someone purchased it. I
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 7:36 AM Post #1,431 of 10,704

surfgeorge

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@DynamicEars and @jon parker
Did you already post something of the KPE vs the EX800/EX1000? I didn't see anything but I am mighty curious :)
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 7:58 AM Post #1,432 of 10,704

jon parker

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@DynamicEars and @jon parker
Did you already post something of the KPE vs the EX800/EX1000? I didn't see anything but I am mighty curious :)

I can do - but they are different tier IEM's - KPE I would say is Mid tier where as EX800 is Top Tier.
I love the KPE and think they sound amazing BUT when I put in the EX800 straight after using the KPE its like going from black and white TV to full colour HD Monitor o_0
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 8:36 AM Post #1,433 of 10,704

CoiL

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KPE I would say is Mid tier where as EX800 is Top Tier.
So, it is pointless to get Tanchjim Oxygen (to some it seems little upgrade or just sidegrade from KPE) when EX800 wipes floor with KPE for about same price?

Edit: Tho, by looking at EX800 graphs, I think I would enjoy KPE more for my personal preferences.
WHY it is to You "Top Tier" compared with KPE? Please describe more in detail. KPE resolution, transparency, detail, balance, tightness, micro-detail ARE already crazy good imho and honestly, I can`t imagine or wish it to be better... just doesn`t fit in my head.
Maybe it`s more about personal preferences about sound signature along with gear matchup?
 
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Mar 7, 2019 at 8:39 AM Post #1,434 of 10,704

surfgeorge

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I can do - but they are different tier IEM's - KPE I would say is Mid tier where as EX800 is Top Tier.
I love the KPE and think they sound amazing BUT when I put in the EX800 straight after using the KPE its like going from black and white TV to full colour HD Monitor o_0
Great! I am going to switch to color TV then in 2 weeks :ksc75smile:
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 8:41 AM Post #1,435 of 10,704

yuriv

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I agree with you the peak is definitely there. I will update my review accordingly. Yes I still maintain that it manages to be quite inoffensive but yes it colors the music with some sparkle (Which I kinda like :D)



I think I'm getting really good results with my Sony MH1C tips partially inserted



uSound target compensated:



Indeed it seems these tips act a little bit like diffusers spreading out that treble energy over a larger area. They now sound like they maintained their brightness without being crispy. These do require a bit deeper insertion to get the peak at 7K, with slight discomfort... I'm not entirely sure I like :)

This is with Comply sport, usound compensated:



With them comfort is greatly improved, however there is some loss of significant treble around 9K. Which I could live with if foam tips weren't so bothersome to deal with :)

EDIT: Small breakthrough in modding the crescent! Squishing the tip spreads out treble energy further:

unknown.png


vs unsquished:

unknown.png


So a tip with a conical core, or a front mesh with a conical surface would probably result with very smooth and mh755-like treble :)

That’s terrific! I tried to replicate your result with the medium MH1 tip, but my coupler doesn’t like the squishification. I might have better luck with the smaller MH1 tips, if I can remember where I put them. BTW, on the MH755 the canal resonance is there, but it’s hiding behind another resonance. When you put additional damper on its nozzle, the resonance is exposed and you can see the peak clearly in measurements. It’s really neat how they made the frequency response smooth like that. The MH1 has something similar going on.

Have you verified the result by listening to it? Who knows if the tip deforms differently in an actual ear canal? A sine sweep should tell you right away.

Going by our hunch that a silicone tip that maintains its conical shape in the ear spreads out the energy of the peak, I looked for some cone-shaped silicone sleeves in my collection. For those of you who didn’t watch the last episode, we were looking for silicone sleeves that maintain their slant surface inside the ear canal, so that points on the surface of the silicone are at different distances from the eardrum. We hope to find a silicone tip that acts like a diffuser—one that blunts the spike in the frequency response resulting from the ear canal resonance.

Tips for Moondrop Crescent.jpeg

From left to right: Moondrop Crescent stock tip, medium Sony MH1, medium Sony hybrid, small Sony hybrid, medium Jaybird silicone, small Jaybird silicone, Comply Sport Pro with Smart Core​

The most angled one is the small Jaybird silicone tip, but the medium one also has a shape that might work.

Moondrop Crescent with small Jaybird silicone tips.jpeg

Moondrop Crescent with small silicone sleeve from Jaybird X3/Freedom F5​

Here’s what I got from the medium Jaybird tips:

Moondrop Crescent with Jaybird medium silicone tips .png

Moondrop Crescent with medium silicone sleeve from Jaybird X3/Freedom F5. Frequency response of unmodified unit with stock tips shown in light gray.​

I probably can’t insert this one deep. The small Jaybird tips work better than medium when inserted shallow. I can also insert them deeper. Others might have to do exactly this to get a seal.

Moondrop Crescent with Jaybird small silicone tips .png

Moondrop Crescent with small silicone sleeve from Jaybird X3/Freedom F5. Frequency response of unmodified unit with stock tips shown in light gray.​

The data looks promising. I listened to a manual sine sweep with the shallowest insertion. I noticed that the peaking filter needed to cut only 3 dB near 7 kHz for the sweep to be smooth. It used to be a lot more with the stock tips. The added benefit of spreading that energy around is that it helps bring up the level around 9-10 kHz.

I’ve been listening to it for a while now, and it sounds livelier than with Comply foam (or stock silicone for that matter). I like it. I’ve enjoyed a couple of albums already. With no huge audio flaws, it’s easier to just listen to what happening in the music. But I’ll need more time to make an accurate judgment.

Moondrop Crescent, smaller rear volume, small Jaybird silicone tips.png

Moondrop Crescent with small silicone sleeve from Jaybird X3/Freedom F5 and shallow insertion. Frequency response of unmodified unit with stock tips shown in light gray.​

Shallow insertion with the Jaybird tips is more comfortable than with the stock tips. Deeper insertion is possible with the smaller tips.

Moondrop Crescent, smaller rear volume, small Jaybird silicone tips, deeper insertion.png

Moondrop Crescent with small silicone sleeve from Jaybird X3/Freedom F5 and deeper insertion. Frequency response of unmodified unit with stock tips shown in light gray.​

The small Jaybird sleeves seal well inside my ears, but unlike Sony tips or Comply 400 foam, they fit a little loose around the Moondrop Crescent’s nozzle. When I went for the deepest insertion, the tips stayed in my ear canals when I took off the earphones. I couldn’t remove them with fingers alone, so I had to use a small pair of pliers. Lol.

So maybe you can find one that works better. I wonder if the Small Sony MH1 needs to be squished.
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 8:48 AM Post #1,436 of 10,704

jon parker

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'So, it is pointless to get Tanchjim Oxygen (to some it seems little upgrade or just sidegrade from KPE) when EX800 wipes floor with KPE for about same price?'

Not necessarily - Im keeping both the KPE and the EX800 because they both sound different and offer quite different sound signatures. Even just from a practical pov the ES800 does have a unique way of sitting in the ear which is not very practical for being out and about
The KPE have [in comparison] a quite cold more high end detailed sound - they give the feeling of being more dynamic. They have more of a 3D image The EX800's though give you all the frequencies, everything in the mix can be heard very clearly - all instruments have their own space and seemingly equal emphasis in terms of levels . .. which is weird but works really well.
Also the KPE are tuned for accurate fun? Where as the EX800's are a tool for professionals - They are tuned partly for live mixing so in some ways theya re very accurate.
End of the day I find they compliment each other very nicely - They both share some good qualities but at either end of the spectrum - KPE = light, airy, nice mids/lows, harmon tuned, detail 3D versus EX800 - warm rich superbly balanced and full dynamic imaging
@ozziecook has a set of EX800's arriving soon so ask for his feedback as well :)
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 8:54 AM Post #1,437 of 10,704

chickenmoon

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Or expectation bias?
Source definitely is not an issue.
Please provide me with track where You hear difference and maybe more detailed description what changes, will try again.

No particular track, blocking vents doesn't affect some tracks and not others. What happens is that bass is overall reduced slightly but more in the sub-bass region than in mid/upper bass which makes it sound flatter, more even. Also I felt KP did not bleed into mids but after blocking back vents I realized that it did to some extent as midrange gets even clearer.

I think source might be an issue if it doesn't render very tight bass and/or rolls off in sub-bass.
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 9:03 AM Post #1,438 of 10,704

chickenmoon

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I can do - but they are different tier IEM's - KPE I would say is Mid tier where as EX800 is Top Tier.
I love the KPE and think they sound amazing BUT when I put in the EX800 straight after using the KPE its like going from black and white TV to full colour HD Monitor o_0

I don't have EX800ST but I have EX1000 which is supposedly the technically better one of those two and there is no way I can say it wipes the floor with the KP. EX1000's got a very flat bass and better separation but loses out in all other areas IMO.
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 9:17 AM Post #1,439 of 10,704

jon parker

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I don't have EX800ST but I have EX1000 which is supposedly the technically better one of those two and there is no way I can say it wipes the floor with the KP. EX1000's got a very flat bass and better separation but loses out in all other areas IMO.

Technically the EX800 is the Ex1000 but a later [some would say 'better'] version that re-tunes the highs and other areas to offer a more balanced over all sound. The KPE is without doubt a Mid tier performing IEM. The EX800 is without doubt a Top tier IEM - Whether one enjoys one more than the other depends on many factors including quality of audio / source - DAP - Tips - cables - preference - synergy etc etc
'Wiping the floor' I think would be a difficult term to use with an IEM that has such a great tuning as the KPE. As I said before - they are both tuned for completely different purposes - 1 for fun. 1 for professional use. In that sense they can offer quite different qualities which will most likely make either a favourite maybe, depending on whether you listen more to 'music' or more to 'audio' !
'Technically' in this context would mean that the EX1000 has a more accurate rendition of the audio? Depends how you define technically. All the headphones I use for studio/audio work are 'technically' better than other headphones - But that doesn't necessarily mean I would use some of them for pleasure! :D
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the EX1000 - valuable info! The bass on the Ex800 is some of, if not THE best low end I have heard on maybe any headphone or IEM
Based on what you said - do you find the mids and highs on the KPE are better than the EX1000?
If so, would you mind sharing what tips and cables you are using for both? Thanks
 
Mar 7, 2019 at 9:18 AM Post #1,440 of 10,704

DynamicEars

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@DynamicEars and @jon parker
Did you already post something of the KPE vs the EX800/EX1000? I didn't see anything but I am mighty curious :)

So, it is pointless to get Tanchjim Oxygen (to some it seems little upgrade or just sidegrade from KPE) when EX800 wipes floor with KPE for about same price?

Edit: Tho, by looking at EX800 graphs, I think I would enjoy KPE more for my personal preferences.
WHY it is to You "Top Tier" compared with KPE? Please describe more in detail. KPE resolution, transparency, detail, balance, tightness, micro-detail ARE already crazy good imho and honestly, I can`t imagine or wish it to be better... just doesn`t fit in my head.
Maybe it`s more about personal preferences about sound signature along with gear matchup?

well im going to post my full review of KP including comparison with EX1000 but i havent finish it yet.. so i drop the comparison section here as a spoiler since i've done that part :

with Sony MDR EX1000
The reason I bought this Kanas Pro is because there are rumors that this iem can match and there are people who prefer this to Sony MDR EX1000. They're share same using single Dynamic Driver, EX1000 use Liquid Crystal Polymer Film Diaphragm, while Kanas Pro is using Diamond-like Carbon Diaphragm, a newer technology. EX1000s are indeed 1 of the best single DD iem for years. I own this for almost 10 years.

So how is the comparison? EX1000's fit is a bit difficult, because of long nozzle and not so ergonomic design from the past, while the Kanas pro is easier to fit.

Soundwise, well Kanas Pro are really good iems for its price. They have slightly different signature, They are balanced on their own way. These two iems are not flat signatures, they are balanced but not flat, close to.
The EX1000 are more dynamic/lush/full sounding compared to Kanas Pro, They have "attack" and "punch" and the same time while keep everything balanced. On the other side Kanas pro is very mild U signature with boosted sub bass so Kanas pro sound more relaxing, a bit flatter sound if compared to EX1000. While the sub bass area in Kanas Pro is bigger in quantity, the EX1000 sub bass is better in texture and extension, very clean and mature.

Mid area is where Kanas Pro can stand to fight with EX1000, the clarity in Kanas Pro is on par, or near same level of clarity, or sometimes i feel it clearer! And Kanas Pros sounds more natural in timbre although by a very close one.
High mids on Kanas Pros seems more boosted at 3 khz region, while EX1000 is more relaxed at that region but EX1000 got humps at 6khz and 8khz areas but still very safe for me.
Soundstage on EX1000 is really hard to beat, that giant 16mm DD give massive air make the soundstage is huge with a good depth, Kanas pro is considered wide but still can't be compared to EX1000.

Detail retrieval and resolution are clearly better in EX1000, its just a wonder micro details, and musical at same time. Kanas Pro's details are good but definitely can't beat the legendary iem here. On the other technical abilities like imaging and separation etc Kanas Pro are not left behind.
Maybe still lose to EX1000 but not by much.

So, in the end the EX1000 is still a technically better iem, but the Kanas Pro is catching up, not very much behind. Kanas Pro is more like relaxed version of EX1000 with slightly different balanced signature. For $180 Kanas Pro really do a great job here.
For me myself, i will listen more to Kanas Pro for daily driver, put EX1000 in audio cupboard because of the cable, EX1000 cable are fragiles, I only want to listen to EX1000 at home, at my free time. Yet i wont be missing that much
because the Kanas Pro is decent enough to satisfied my everyday listening session.
 
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