Moondrop in-ear monitors Impressions Thread
Mar 10, 2022 at 4:47 PM Post #10,936 of 11,979
You know dude, it's like this. You know those acoustically transparent mesh covers they put on speakers? Man, am I ever convinced that removing those to reveal the naked tweeters and woofers beneath improves the sound and does so viscerally for me.

You know what else? I don't give a crap if somebody wants to debunk that, because even if it could be debunked, that wouldn't change a thing for me. I must have brainwashed myself.
Oh, I am right there with you on that note! Anything between my ears and the speaker makes a world of difference to me, too, especially in front if a tweeter. There was set of Bose speakers that I kept the mesh on because I actually prefer the sound of them on, but 90% of time, I agree: they dampen the highs and stage a bit so them suckers are going off. Is the difference between cables that drastic?
 
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Mar 10, 2022 at 5:00 PM Post #10,937 of 11,979
Hi! I know this a topic that is sort of overdone, but it is one I would like some opinions on from people in this group
There is huge misconception here....
The segment of cable we are referring to, is the MOST noticeable type of cable, because it is headphone cable...

Its not just a piece of wire, but a complex design with complex wind, strand, insulating material, and braiding, wich will affect micro world of detail, ambiance, tonality and coherency.
All components have RCL & magnetic attributes, no matter how small.
These perceptions are not readily noticeable on devices that are not sensitive, but IEMs are one of the most sensitive type of devices we have, especially since it is being placed right in the ear...
So yeah, all that "sound science" goes out the window when you hear differences, which, like it or not, the majority of all of us notice or claim to notice.
It's Iike the difference between a person of faith knowing they have a soul, and an atheist who don't believe or want to show you numbers to invalidate the soul.
 
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Mar 10, 2022 at 5:04 PM Post #10,938 of 11,979
Mar 10, 2022 at 5:24 PM Post #10,939 of 11,979
Mar 10, 2022 at 6:13 PM Post #10,940 of 11,979
There is huge misconception here....
The segment of cable we are referring to, is the MOST noticeable type of cable, because it is headphone cable...

Its not just a piece of wire, but a complex design with complex wind, strand, insulating material, and braiding, wich will affect micro world of detail, ambiance, tonality and coherency.
All components have RCL & magnetic attributes, no matter how small.
These perceptions are not readily noticeable on devices that are not sensitive, but IEMs are one of the most sensitive type of devices we have, especially since it is being placed right in the ear...
So yeah, all that "sound science" goes out the window when you hear differences, which, like it or not, the majority of all of us notice or claim to notice.
It's Iike the difference between a person of faith knowing they have a soul, and an atheist who don't believe or want to show you numbers to invalidate the soul.
Oh wow, I knew that some manufactures ramble on about the quality of their cables, but I figured it was mostly bloated marketing with a hair of truth behind it, sort of like the toothpaste market. I didn't know that headphone cables were actually complexly engineered products with sound quality in mind in addition to the basic things such as conductivity and durability. It definitely makes sense that sensitive iems matter much more. Thanks for your info and perspective!
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 6:28 PM Post #10,941 of 11,979
marketing with a hair of truth behind it,
Your not far off. The thing is, at what level your setup is, to detect those "hairs of truth". 👍
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 9:05 PM Post #10,942 of 11,979
Hi! I know this a topic that is sort of overdone, but it is one I would like some opinions on from people in this group.
A lot of you guys definitely seem to be on the "cabbles-matter" side of the field, while I'm smack dab in the middle, aka I-don't-know-ville. According to what I've gathered over the years, some types matter much more than others, such as usb and long single ended cables mattering a good bit, while balanced xlr interconnects mattering negligibly little. However, I am not firmly planted in those thoughts, and I'm almost completely lost on the importance of headphone, iem, and speaker cables. I have heard (and it makes sense) that resistance and therefore wire gauge and condition are most important, especially for drivers with lower resistance and higher sensitivity, but that most cables have these boxes adequately checked to the point that differences should be almost if not completely inaudible.
If you think that iem and headphone cables matter, why do you think so? Purely asking out of curiosity. Is your stance more rooted in objective data or subjective listening? (Both are important imo.) How much of a difference in the sound is there between say a $30 "copper" cable (not pure), a $70 pure copper cable, and a $500 silver/gold cable? Is it a tiny difference, like a +0.15dB boost on an eq that you have to strain and A/B 14 times back to back to hear the difference, or is it like the difference between 128kbps MP3/Ogg Vorbis vs FLAC, small but clearly audible?

Cables changing sound is a huge controversial topic in audiophiledom. Have seen these discussions devolve into a flamewar on threads haha. Anyways, we have 2 camps, one says there are no measureable or hearable changes with cables, whereas another camp swears that there are audible changes subjectively.

Well I respect both camps, but personally, I do think sources and eartips change the sound much more than cables. Personally I won't pair a cable that is more expensive than the IEM. I have a friend that uses a $1000 cable with his $27 USD BLON BL-03, he says it makes the sound richer and lusher.

So the take-home message is, if it floats your boat, why not, it's your own money and nobody has the right to tell you not to spend it if one gets audio nirvana with changing cables. So maybe you can explore a few cheaper cables and see if you can tell audible differences. If it does, you have another area in the source chain to play with. If it doesn't, you save money in this hobby!
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 8:12 AM Post #10,943 of 11,979
New cable in town

IMG_20210917_153559.jpgIMG_20210917_153552.jpg

I know your post was a long time ago... but I’ve been eyeing the Variations and I’m still catching up on this thread, on more and more comments about them before purchasing.

Since you live in Portugal, like me, where do you get your stuff from? Whatever’s available on Amazon or do you order from somewhere in China? Taxes? I’m talking about everything: IEMs, cables, tips...
As we know, the market is not too big here and I’m new to the IEM game, so I’m VERY curious. Too many options out there and a fairly low budget so I’m looking for the the possible unicorn within this budget.

(If you feel this is off-topic, we may jump to PM on this issue) but I’m also curious where you got your Variations...

Thanks!
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 9:15 AM Post #10,944 of 11,979
Have had a blast tip rolling on the variations, once you find the right tips and to a smaller extent cable the improvements are well worth the time.
On screens I took a good luck at the nozzle tube using a magnifier and noticed a small amount of dust or ear wax. I was able to clean it out but I now realize no matter how much I clean my ears dust and stuff still can get inside. Since I found my ideal eartips I decided to reinstall the filters.

Hopefully this will help and the variations will last for long time.

I guess the screens in the Variations are very valuable. Many here have removed them (to each his own). But imho, no matter how well you keep your ears clean, dust and tiny particles will always find their way into the tubes which go straight into the BA and EST drivers, which may somewhat obstruct sound reproduction. As soon as I get mine, I’ll be sure to keep them on. Just my two cents.
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 10:26 AM Post #10,946 of 11,979
So, I've had the Moondrop Variations for about a month now and had a lot of time to listen to them as well as gather my thoughts. tl;dr: These are one of the best IEMs you can find and a benchmark below 1000$.

For those who don't know, the Moondrop Variations is a lot Tribrid IEM with a current price tag of 520$. They incorporate a single 10mm LCP Diaphragm Dynamic Driver (DD), two Sonion Electrostatic Drivers (EST) and two Softears Customised Balanced Armature Drivers (BA).

I found the cube shaped Packaging to be quite nice. The included cable with interchangeable termination is good although can get a bit tangly at times. You get the usual Moondrop silicon ear tips as well as Foam ear tips. I did not use either though because I have SpinFit CP155. These were already a perfect fit for the Blessing 2 and the same can be said for the Variations. They just fit on the nozzle and make the IEM both easy to insert into my ears as well as super comfy to wear for me.

The IEM itself are very well built. The resin body with smoked look and metal faceplate looks great and has a nice weight to it without being heavy. The IEMs weight 9g per side, so 16g in total.

The first thing I noticed when putting them on and listening to music was how crystal clear and transparent these sound. The Variations are the definition of a neutral with bass boost tuning. The Bass is elevated primarily into the sub bass and extends all the way to 20hz. This is one of the reasons why the Variations sound so clean to me: there is zero Bass bleed into the mids, which leads to vocals just sounding extraordinary. The Bass is impactful, tight and well controlled. When the music calls for it the DD will produce rumbling, detailed bass that's just so much fun to listen to. The "Hardwired" EP by mitch murder for example is a bliss to listen on with these. Especially "Hardwired" and "Reconnaissance" show what the Dynamic Driver of the Variations is capable of. Bass hits deep, sharp and has a textured body to it while always sounding controlled and never overwhelming anything else. "We Could Get More Machinegun Psystyle! - And More Genre Switches" by Camellia shows the Variations handling vastly different subgenres of Electronic music flawlessly. Especially the Speed and Decay of the DD is made apparent by the Speedcore kicks or DnB parts.

The Mids continue where the Bass left of: Excellency. Both male and female vocals sound crystal clear and fill the room, being brought into the centre of attention when a song wants them to. This is where I need to mention the Variations imaging capabilities which are simply impressive. The Variations provides a Deep and Wide Stage that's above average in height and knows how to put it to good use. Different instruments are easy to distinct and pinpoint in space. Within those aspects the Variations puts Vocals on a podium and makes them the centre of the song, almost as if the real vocalist is there. I can best describe this podium as then being moved to where the vocalist is in relation to the other instruments as well as more in front or far back given how prominent they are supposed to be.

With the separation and imaging comes great resolution. Macrodetails are resolved beautifully and make the Variations sound very natural and organic. Within all of these qualities the Variations retains coherency between the different parts of the frequency spectrum, which solves one of the biggest gripes I had with the Blessing 2, be it OG or Dusk. The MTV live performance of "Hotel California" by the Eagles lets the Variations demonstrate all of it's mentioned qualities and makes for an immersive listening experience.

Now while the mids and vocals in general are close to perfection on the Variations, male vocals sometimes lack the slightest bit of body and weight, making them just a hair less full sounding than they should be. This is nitpicking on a high level, mind you. Female Vocals however take all of the mentioned qualities and crank them up to 11. I cannot make this clear enough: Female vocals are a bliss to listen to on the Variations. Crystal clear, airy, detailed and with a resolution very few IEMs could ever hope to achieve. Going even further I need to talk about an entirely different kind of headphone: the open back Sennheiser HD600. Even 24 years after their initial release they are still a benchmark in open back headphones and widely beloved. It speaks for itself that they are still being manufactured and sold to this day. Their biggest quality by far is their incredible midrange, with slight rolled off bass and smooth, but not any less detailed treble resulting in a very musical and enjoyable, non fatiguing listening experience. I have heard a lot of headphones, many much more expensive than the HD600, and almost none of them made vocals sound as great and beautiful like the HD600.

Which leads me back to the Variations. They sound to me as if Moondrop was able to fit the HD600 inside of a small IEM shell, swap the rolled off bass for one of the cleanest and best executed bass responses I have ever heard, and improve on the Treble, giving it much more energy, air and sparkle while still not being fatiguing. Or: the Variations are IEM HD600 on steroids. The HD600 are one of my favourite headphones that I own, and I could not be any more happy how much the Variations remind me of them and improve on their shortcomings. On "NEUROMANCER" by RIM the female vocalist absolutely shines in an experimental-induced track.

I have already touched on it, but at this point you should not be surprised: the Treble on the Variations is excellent as well. It sounds quite airy and energetic with a sparkle that I would almost describe as "brilliance". The two EST Drivers are implemented very well and round off the Variations into one tonally and technically coherent package.

The Variations improves on the Blessing 2 (OG or Dusk) in pretty much every single aspect. It is the technical and tonally superior IEM in my opinion. More detailed and resolving, with a bigger stage, even better separation and most importantly much, much better coherency. The Blessing 2 sometimes sounded a bit "smeared" over, especially on busy tracks where the Variations just keeps on going and retains a much clearer sound image. The lack of mid bass elevation also leads to the Variations being the much more reference-like IEM compared to the Dusk.

Compared to the Aria it shouldn't come as a surprise that the Variations outperforms it by a significant margin. Still, the Aria is one of my daily drivers when I go out and want to listen to music, and it's warmer tonality is a great complement to the Variations neutral tuning. The Variations truly is an excellently tuned neutral reference that is never boring thanks to it's bass boost, stellar mids and sparkly treble.

I'm just really happy with the Variations. It gets my highest recommendation and has set the bar in the sub 1000$ price range incredibly high. I'd say it's the benchmark for anything near it's price point, both in tonality and technicalities.

(This was my first real "review", so input and constructive criticism is greatly appreciated!)

Very good review. Excellent for a first try. I would not drop your tone. Aside from your personal or objective opinion, that’s exactly also what sets you apart from other reviewers. Think of it like an headphone... it’s YOUR signature.
Not that I didn’t like the comparison to the sound of an over ear, which really helps if you’re looking for a match but I would add comparisons to other IEMs also.
Cheers to you!
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 12:39 PM Post #10,947 of 11,979
Burn-in does not exist. It‘s a purely psychological thing.

Sorry, no. It’s a physical thing. But this issue has been discussed many, many times. Many people, including some reviewers, say cables don’t matter, tips don’t matter, burn-in doesn’t matter... Everyone’s entitled to have their opinion, and I respect yours BUT... ALL these variables matter. They may not matter to you and that’s fine. But the variables are real. Thanks for your understanding.
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 12:53 PM Post #10,948 of 11,979
I could correctly pick between 2 identical iems 6 out of 6 times blind. Couldn't hear a difference after the new one was played for 200 hours. Doesn't mean it's significant on everything but these strong measurement based opinions are not very useful. I will not discuss further in this thread and enable your diversion.

I believe it's a forum rule, or at least it was, to not debate break-in or resolution audibility outside of the "Sound Science' forum.

I was unaware of this rule. Thank you.

I do concur, absolutely. We’re talking about frequency reproduction through different metals and materials. I believe it’s obvious. But it’s an issue for the thread you mentioned. Cheers.

This question is quite controversial on audio forums. It usually ends in a flamewar!

That’s the last thing I’m looking for. I’m looking for convergence and aural pleasure... for all. Thanks.
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 1:08 PM Post #10,949 of 11,979
I was unaware of this rule. Thank you.

I do concur, absolutely. We’re talking about frequency reproduction through different metals and materials. I believe it’s obvious. But it’s an issue for the thread you mentioned. Cheers.



That’s the last thing I’m looking for. I’m looking for convergence and aural pleasure... for all. Thanks.
Belief in or skepticism of the impact of burnin and cables sits at the intersection of faith, personal experience, and science. Debating such things never ends well.

And, yeah, the moderators frown upon it.
 
Mar 11, 2022 at 6:28 PM Post #10,950 of 11,979
I'm looking to try out the Blessing 2 Dusk, and my source will be my Qudelix 5k (small portable dac/amp). It has a regular 3.5mm single ended output and a 2.5mm balanced output (with at least twice the power, but it doesn't matter to me given that the iems are sensitive and don't really need the juice). I'm planning to just use the 3.5mm output, but is it a good idea to give the 2.5mm output a try? I've heard that balanced is the way to go for speakers, interconnects, etc., but I've heard that the main benefit of balanced in headphones/iems is the extra juice, and it can potentially have drawbacks compared to single ended if the the amplification is not designed 100% properly. What do you guys think: should I give it a try? If so, would I need to get an entirely different cable with a 2.5mm termination, or can I use the stock 3.5mm connection? I've heard its fine to go from single ended to balanced but not from balanced to single ended for grouding reasons?
 

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