Moondrop in-ear monitors Impressions Thread
Mar 19, 2019 at 9:02 PM Post #1,696 of 10,704

blacksesame

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I wonder if it is an insertion depth effect... in the literature that comes with the Final E tips they discuss this and provide some generic graphs to illustrate the effects. If I can remember to, I will check for a copyright mark, and if none will take a photo and post here.

That would be a good read. Post if you can. Cause in my head I'm thinking how can moving a nozzle 2mm actually make a difference. It could be that i'm getting a better seal and not aware of it?

Crinacle has very good points about burn ins -- on another note: just because we (including myself) claim that we experienced it.. did we really experience it? I mean as kids magicians fooled us into thinking something happened when it didn't ... maybe our brain is tricking our hearing ?
 
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Mar 19, 2019 at 9:24 PM Post #1,697 of 10,704
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What!?! How can a cable do that?.. unless one side was wired out of phase? or BOTH were? I don't get it at all.

It was a bad cable. clearly left side was possibly out of phase and right channel had a poor solder/connection. Total wreck. Another owner of A8 had to ask Penon for a new cable. I will just put a new Nobunaga cable on my A8.
 
Mar 19, 2019 at 11:24 PM Post #1,698 of 10,704

DynamicEars

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That would be a good read. Post if you can. Cause in my head I'm thinking how can moving a nozzle 2mm actually make a difference. It could be that i'm getting a better seal and not aware of it?

Crinacle has very good points about burn ins -- on another note: just because we (including myself) claim that we experienced it.. did we really experience it? I mean as kids magicians fooled us into thinking something happened when it didn't ... maybe our brain is tricking our hearing ?

I was non believer, but been around this hobby for 10 years +, i can confirm burn in make differences, especially from out ot the box DD with burned in DD because DD has moving parts. Think of like you're stretching before working out, or your comfortable everyday shoes compared to brand new shoes that still feel stiff. Time and wear will make that part more smooth, flawless.

The case if we are listening while burn in could be "just a perception because we are slowly adapted to new sound signature" but I've been burning so many iems while just check it out OOTB, then i use software to burn in and leave them without listen at all until like 20 hours and I was listening for a short session to "check", and indeed they re different. in this case the Moondrop Kanas Pro OOTB and well burned in one is very different.

The only mystery now is how long does the burn in process needed, maybe just couple hours is enough to open up, but some people want it to be 100 hours + for sure.

As for BA drivers, this is grey area for me, since they dont have moving parts, I dont know if air can make a smooth way through metal BA shell and getting better at flow by the time, like a water vs rock by time but it will take a very long time. So i dont buy this one currently.

So I just burn in my DD iems, because i have good experience with it and because why not, its free and cost you nothing.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 1:59 AM Post #1,699 of 10,704

CoiL

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That would be a good read. Post if you can. Cause in my head I'm thinking how can moving a nozzle 2mm actually make a difference. It could be that i'm getting a better seal and not aware of it?

Crinacle has very good points about burn ins -- on another note: just because we (including myself) claim that we experienced it.. did we really experience it? I mean as kids magicians fooled us into thinking something happened when it didn't ... maybe our brain is tricking our hearing ?
Same question could be asked from crin as if I understood correctly, he doesn`t usually even reach over 20h with this "burn-in" process? So, most IEMs claimed to be having change are usually 50-100h of playtime and depending on amping (V/mA) and methodology (ear-pressure mimicing sound-tubes), results can differ.
And I belive most of IEMs actually don`t change in audible way, so it would be important to do test with many different IEMs that many ppl claim having burn-in effect to reach into somekind conclusive result.
KPE takes about 70-90h to "cook" by users impressions. I didn`t notice (and haven`t further on) any change after about 90h playtime with different music at medium vol. level and TARA Labs Cascade (white+pink noise+sweeps).
But did I experience pseudo or just bad aural memory result, idk and I don`t care atm as KPE is just spot-on 100% for my ears & gear (+many other factors).
 
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Mar 20, 2019 at 10:45 AM Post #1,701 of 10,704

perfecious

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What!?! How can a cable do that?.. unless one side was wired out of phase? or BOTH were? I don't get it at all.

As @HAMS said, the biggest differences would come from depth insertion/tip. I've watched carefully the video/s, and HBB did not insert it all the way with these latest tests, as I've seen him do in the past. 1dB loudness difference is real, and comes from the cables (the ****ed up one is actually more conductive, as you can see, so technically - better). My suggestion would be for HBB to make 2 more measurements, by having the A8 properly inserted (as he does), and carefully switching the cables, without breaking the seal, just to make sure that "insertion" doesn't factor the final results, and that way it's all about the cable. I still think that graphs will not show moment-to-moment musical differences, because pink noise is used, and is being averaged. That's why sometimes graphs do not reflect what is actually heard with music. The silver plated cable should perhaps have slight elevation in the higher treble (because more conductive surface = stronger higher frequencies).
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 11:26 AM Post #1,702 of 10,704

FastAndClean

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Screenshot (249).png
Oxygen
Screenshot_20190320-0233472.png
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 5:16 PM Post #1,704 of 10,704

jsmiller58

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That would be a good read. Post if you can. Cause in my head I'm thinking how can moving a nozzle 2mm actually make a difference. It could be that i'm getting a better seal and not aware of it?

Crinacle has very good points about burn ins -- on another note: just because we (including myself) claim that we experienced it.. did we really experience it? I mean as kids magicians fooled us into thinking something happened when it didn't ... maybe our brain is tricking our hearing ?
Sorry it took a few days. As I mentioned, this is from the Final E tip packaging. Attribution provided, no copyright markings so I think that we are good!!

Final E tips document - a.jpg
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 11:11 PM Post #1,707 of 10,704

jsmiller58

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Try the NewBee foams on Amazon. The core is flexible silicone so I push them further up onto the thicker part of the nozzle until the foam is only about 1-2mm past the end of the nozzle so you get a great seal for the bass without losing the midrange and treble.
That’s a great suggestion. Have to try that! :)
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 11:17 PM Post #1,708 of 10,704

blacksesame

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Try the NewBee foams on Amazon. The core is flexible silicone so I push them further up onto the thicker part of the nozzle until the foam is only about 1-2mm past the end of the nozzle so you get a great seal for the bass without losing the midrange and treble.

sounds good. but the only one on amazon canada has for inner diameter 5mm-7mm. Is that too big ?
 
Mar 21, 2019 at 2:02 AM Post #1,710 of 10,704

CoiL

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I have multiple pieces of gear with 4-digits' worth of burn-in hours in them.
Ok, so, are they IEMs that many ppl have found be affected by "burn-in" and You also have completely new units to compare?
If You read on previous page, one user had clear difference when comparing IEM with thousands of hours vs. new pair.
...or You automatically transfer this "no audible differences" to every IEM?
If You read what I wrote, then it`s not only about hours and other factors come to play also. And like I said, imho methodology (sine sweep or P/W noise FR graph) is wrong to measure "burn-in".
But I don`t want debate more about this as it is offtopic and belongs to sound-science forums.
KP

Oxygen
I`m glad I have KPE :)
Sorry it took a few days. As I mentioned, this is from the Final E tip packaging. Attribution provided, no copyright markings so I think that we are good!!
Great find! Please post this info into tip-rolling thread also! -> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread.726229/
 

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