[metalboss]

  Right the internal DAC output voltage is low. I have a Audio GD NFB7 which has 5V output voltage over XLR. The Moon is about 10db louder with the GD DAC. But again with High Gain + Internal DAC I will never reach 80db volume with my Abyss. And I think with HE6 it is also no problem.

Well noted your input Trance_Gott 

 

[Chris J]

Remember Gain and power are different things too


If it has low gain to accomodate a large range of headphones (while still having good volume control)


It most likely isn't designed to have super high gain for use with HE-6 - could also be that his Dac output voltage isn't very high which would again affect it?


Could you clarify what dac you are using?

And may I also add that Gain and Headroom are two different things, just because the gain is set to "High", doesn't mean you don't have a lot of headroom for driving your headphones. The "High" gain setting may only be 6 dB of gain.

 

[Trance_Gott]

The 430HA has really a killer DAC. Simaudio told me it is based on ESS Sabre 9018 like my Audio GD NFB7. The Moon DAC is on same level! For this price +700$ really good!

 

[longbowbbs]

Moon Neo 430 HA-D is in the house for review. I am putting in the requisite 300 hours of burn in atm.
 

 

[longbowbbs]

A couple of comments as I read through this thread. This information come directly from the Simaudio White Paper on the 430HA.
 
Optional DSD/32-bit PCM DAC 
The digital-to-analog converter option is built around an ES9018K2M SABRE³² Reference DAC that uses both the ESS “32-bit Hyperstream DAC” architecture and their “Time Domain Jitter Eliminator”. This DAC is capable of processing PCM input signals up to, and including both DXD (352.8kHz) and 384kHz/32-bit, as well as quad DSD (11.2896), also known as DSD256.DSD signals are processed natively, as opposed to the more common method of converting to PCM which involves more processing steps and the altering of the digital input signal. The actual Digital-to-Analog section of the ES9018K2M uses two DAC’s in a fully balanced differential mode followed by a dual “Dynamic Matching” process that sums the output of the 2 aforementioned DAC’s, cancelling out the minute imperfections that are common to all DAC’s. 
As good as this DAC chip is, exceptional sonic performance can be best achieved when (i) the DAC is driven by a high quality power supply and (ii) its analog output passes through a high quality analog stage. Failure in these two areas will severely diminish the performance of a high quality DAC. Conversely, the proper implementation can elevate the performance of the DAC chip to exceptional levels of sonic performance. 
The Nēo 430HA’s oversized power supply and advanced stages of DC voltage regulation ensure both precise and ultra low noise DC voltage to the DAC section; Our meticulously in-house designed 3^rd order analog filter guarantees life-like analog sonics featuring robust, tight bottom-end, liquid mid-range and transparent, non-fatiguing high frequencies. 
 
Next regarding Transcondunctance:
 
Discrete Transconductance 
A transconductance amplifier circuit converts voltage (input) to current (output). The main result is an ultrafast circuit with a high slew rate. This is ideal for efficiently driving smaller lightweight drivers that are typically found in headphones. As well, it provides for an input stage that offers both exceptional dynamics and detail when it comes to subjective listening. 
Note: There are four (4) identical circuits as a result of the 430HA’s fully balanced differential design 
The Neo 430HA’s output stage uses both positve and negative transistors that conduct a full wave signal, resulting in absolutely no crossover distortion, very much like a “Class A” circuit topology. However, unlike a conventional “Class A” amplifier, which draws full current at all times and generates significant heat from the current not sent to the speaker load, the 430HA’s output current flow varies with the input music signal even though the output transistors conduct current at all times. This circuit operates internally in current mode. 
 
I hope this is useful information for everyone.
 
Eric

 

[longbowbbs]

Before I got the 430HA in the house I stopped by my Dealer's shop and I brought over the Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. We spent several hours with both units using my HD800's & HD650's. I also had on hand Audeze LCD-3f's & LCD-X's and a pair of Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime's. Cables were Toxic Cables Silver Widow's (The new 22ga and the original 25.5ga) Nordost Heimdall 2's and WyWires Red Series. We were using the DAC in the 430HA and ran the Fixed SE outputs from the 430 to the Cavalli inputs. The Cavalli is Single Ended only.This did allow almost instant moving from one amp to another. Source was his Cullen Modded Sonos system off of theNAS with all of his Hi-Rez files. Interconnects were all top end AQ's.
 
The Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson retails for $2850 USD vs the Moon 430HA at $3500 without DAC.
 
Did I mention I love days like this?  

 

 

 

[preproman]

  Before I got the 430HA in the house I stopped by my Dealer's shop and I brought over the Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. We spent several hours with both units using my HD800's & HD650's. I also had on hand Audeze LCD-3f's & LCD-X's and a pair of Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime's. Cables were Toxic Cables Silver Widow's (The new 22ga and the original 25.5ga) Nordost Heimdall 2's and WyWires Red Series. We were using the DAC in the 430HA and ran the Fixed SE outputs from the 430 to the Cavalli inputs. The Cavalli is Single Ended only.This did allow almost instant moving from one amp to another. Source was his Cullen Modded Sonos system off of theNAS with all of his Hi-Rez files. Interconnects were all top end AQ's.
 
The Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson retails for $2850 USD vs the Moon 430HA at $3500 without DAC.
 
Did I mention I love days like this?  

 

 

 
So what was the outcome of the comparison?
 

 

[longbowbbs]

 

  Before I got the 430HA in the house I stopped by my Dealer's shop and I brought over the Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. We spent several hours with both units using my HD800's & HD650's. I also had on hand Audeze LCD-3f's & LCD-X's and a pair of Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime's. Cables were Toxic Cables Silver Widow's (The new 22ga and the original 25.5ga) Nordost Heimdall 2's and WyWires Red Series. We were using the DAC in the 430HA and ran the Fixed SE outputs from the 430 to the Cavalli inputs. The Cavalli is Single Ended only.This did allow almost instant moving from one amp to another. Source was his Cullen Modded Sonos system off of theNAS with all of his Hi-Rez files. Interconnects were all top end AQ's.
 
The Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson retails for $2850 USD vs the Moon 430HA at $3500 without DAC.
 
Did I mention I love days like this?  

 

 

 
So what was the outcome of the comparison?
 

  Hey, I am writing a review here!  

 
 
I will say either amp would be a sweet "allegedly" end game amp. No losers here.

 

[preproman]

 

  Hey, I am writing a review here!  

Ha ha  my bad..  Also include what you think about the LAu vs. the Neo 430HA..
 
Still  

 

[longbowbbs]

 

 

  Hey, I am writing a review here!  

Ha ha  my bad..  Also include what you think about the LAu vs. the Neo 430HA..
 
Still  

I do not have a lot of time with the LAu, but it is a superior amp to the Crimson...For more money naturally. The Moon comes in right in the middle of the two Cavalli's price wise without DAC.

 

[Theogenes]

Glad to see a review of this bad boy finally in the works!! Eric, thanks for the info thus far-- and please be sure to let us know when you've got the full review posted!

 

[longbowbbs]

Theo, I would expect the review in early April. Lionel and the team at Moon have been terrific. Any question I have had so far or information I needed they have happy to supply the answer quickly and usually with a white paper or technical document. That's all I can ask of a manufacturer. It will take a couple of months between the break in time and the flexibility of the unit. There is a lot here to get my arms around.
 
Best!
 
Eric

 

[Chris J]

A couple of comments as I read through this thread. This information come directly from the Simaudio White Paper on the 430HA.

Next regarding Transconductance:

Discrete Transconductance 
A transconductance amplifier circuit converts voltage (input) to current (output). The main result is an ultrafast circuit with a high slew rate. This is ideal for efficiently driving smaller lightweight drivers that are typically found in headphones. As well, it provides for an input stage that offers both exceptional dynamics and detail when it comes to subjective listening. 
Note: There are four (4) identical circuits as a result of the 430HA’s fully balanced differential design 
The Neo 430HA’s output stage uses both positve and negative transistors that conduct a full wave signal, resulting in absolutely no crossover distortion, very much like a “Class A” circuit topology. However, unlike a conventional “Class A” amplifier, which draws full current at all times and generates significant heat from the current not sent to the speaker load, the 430HA’s output current flow varies with the input music signal even though the output transistors conduct current at all times. This circuit operates internally in current mode. 

I hope this is useful information for everyone.

Eric

Can you post a link to this White Paper?
I hope they didn't refer to the transistors as positive and negative!

 

[longbowbbs]

 

A couple of comments as I read through this thread. This information come directly from the Simaudio White Paper on the 430HA.

Next regarding Transconductance:

Discrete Transconductance 
A transconductance amplifier circuit converts voltage (input) to current (output). The main result is an ultrafast circuit with a high slew rate. This is ideal for efficiently driving smaller lightweight drivers that are typically found in headphones. As well, it provides for an input stage that offers both exceptional dynamics and detail when it comes to subjective listening. 
Note: There are four (4) identical circuits as a result of the 430HA’s fully balanced differential design 
The Neo 430HA’s output stage uses both positve and negative transistors that conduct a full wave signal, resulting in absolutely no crossover distortion, very much like a “Class A” circuit topology. However, unlike a conventional “Class A” amplifier, which draws full current at all times and generates significant heat from the current not sent to the speaker load, the 430HA’s output current flow varies with the input music signal even though the output transistors conduct current at all times. This circuit operates internally in current mode. 

I hope this is useful information for everyone.

Eric

Can you post a link to this White Paper?
I hope they didn't refer to the transistors as positive and negative!

Here is the white paper. Have fun!
 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfds7h26u8mopi2/MOON%20430HA_White_Paper.pdf?dl=0

 

[Chris J]

Here is the white paper. Have fun!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfds7h26u8mopi2/MOON%20430HA_White_Paper.pdf?dl=0

Umm....thanks.....I think! 8 Watts into 50 Ohms, no wonder the headphone amp is not biased into Class A!

I also thought the link might be useful for any other folks interested in reading the White Paper.

Seriously, thank you for the link!