[sahmen]

Anyone tried low impedance cans like LCD-X or iBasso SR1 on the Liquid Platinum?

I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30. The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.

 

[Luckbad]

You may find a comprehensive set of measurements for the Liquid Platinum right here on head-fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-cavalli-liquid-platinum-technical-measurements.894843/

These are measurements from a legitimate expert in the field who is employed and well-respected in the industry. Ignore Amir and listen to Bob.

 

[Gauss1777]

I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30. The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.

Thanks for the info sahmen. That is from the balanced line or the unbalanced line?

How do you like your LCD-X coming from the LP against any other nice Amp you may have?

 

[sahmen]

Thanks for the info sahmen. That is from the balanced line or the unbalanced line?

How do you like your LCD-X coming from the LP against any other nice Amp you may have?

,
That is from the balanced XLR output, which is my preferred on the LP. As for the LP's performance, I'll just say that for the price, it seems to be unmatched, as far as I know. Even when you take pricing out of the equation (which seems to eliminate any idea of a fair playing field), the LP holds its own quite well against other, apparently higher end amps. My Violectric V281 is superior in build and in certain technicalities (which is to be expected, given how it is more than 3x the price of the LP), but the LP can and does give the V281 a run of its money most of the time, when it comes to handling many types of cans, such as the LCD-X, for example, from the viewpoint of raw performance alone. There are instances when the LP might show certain limitations, when going head to head with the V281, but those aren't limitations one needs to apologize for, given the price point of the LP..

If you're considering getting the LP, then it has my thumbs up all the way.

 

[Wes S]

I've use the LCD-X on this several times, and it plays fine at around 9 o'clock to 9:30. The LCD-4 requires the dial to be at 11:30ish, but both play quite nicely with the LP. Personally, I do not like messing wdith the volume dial too much, once I have found a sweet spot for each headphone, so I am not bothered at all by the 9:00-9:30 positioning for the LCD-_X. Bottomline is that they work quite nicely together with no downsides that I can see.

Wow! If I went to 11:30 on the dial, I would be deaf, even with my hard to drive Ori planars. I can't go past 9 or it is way to loud. My sweet spot is between 8 and 9. Interesting how we have different hearing.

 

[sahmen]

Wow! If I went to 11:30 on the dial, I would be deaf, even with my hard to drive Ori planars. I can't go past 9 or it is way to loud. My sweet spot is between 8 and 9. Interesting how we have different hearing.

Well, I think your idea of the LCD-4's loudness at 11:00-11:30 o'clock is a bit exaggerated. I typically listen at relatively moderate volumes myself, so something seems off in your assessment. Bear in mind that the LCD-4 has an impedance of 200 Ohms at 97db of sensitivity, as opposed to the LCD-X's 20 Ohms at 103db of sensitivity. Ergo, the LCD-4 requires a lot more juice to play at a level of loudness equivalent to the LCD-X... That is why the LCD-X works at 9:00 whereas the LCD-4 requires the travel of the dial to the 11 O'clock position or a bit more.

If I still had my Hifiman He-6 or the Susvara (which I have never heard), I bet the dial will easily have to get to the 2-3 o'clock position to start sounding acceptably loud, and even that might not cut it for some people. Again, I am no basshead or loud-music freak, For one thing, my ears get easily offended when the music gets too loud, whether I am listening to headphones or speakers. So take all that into account in interpreting what I have said.

 

[Wes S]

Well, I think your idea of the LCD-4's loudness at 11:00-11:30 o'clock is a bit exaggerated. I typically listen at relatively moderate volumes myself, so something seems off in your assessment. Bear in mind that the LCD-4 has an impedance of 200 Ohms at 97db of sensitivity, as opposed to the LCD-X's 20 Ohms at 103db of sensitivity. Ergo, the LCD-4 requires a lot more juice to play at a level of loudness equivalent to the LCD-X... That is why the LCD-X works at 9:00 whereas the LCD-4 requires the travel of the dial to the 11 O'clock position or a bit more.

If I still had my Hifiman He-6 or the Susvara (which I have never heard), I bet the dial will easily have to get to the 2-3 o'clock position to start sounding acceptably loud, and even that might not cut it for some people. Again, I am no basshead or loud-music freak, For one thing, my ears get easily offended when the music gets too loud, whether I am listening to headphones or speakers. So take all that into account in interpreting what I have said.

My bad, i read that wrong and thought the 11:00 -11:30 was for the LCD X. That is interesting how you can get to 9:30 with it. i cant get past 9 with my Ori, Before it hurts my ears. Maybe because of different dacs?

 

[Gauss1777]

,
That is from the balanced XLR output, which is my preferred on the LP. As for the LP's performance, I'll just say that for the price, it seems to be unmatched, as far as I know. Even when you take pricing out of the equation (which seems to eliminate any idea of a fair playing field), the LP holds its own quite well against other, apparently higher end amps. My Violectric V281 is superior in build and in certain technicalities (which is to be expected, given how it is more than 3x the price of the LP), but the LP can and does give the V281 a run of its money most of the time, when it comes to handling many types of cans, such as the LCD-X, for example, from the viewpoint of raw performance alone. There are instances when the LP might show certain limitations, when going head to head with the V281, but those aren't limitations needs to apologize for, given its price.

If you're considering getting the LP, then it has my thumbs up all the way.

I'm deciding between the LP or the LTA MZ2, the MZ2 it's almost triple the price of the LP and no XLR output, I cannot hear them both before buying since they both had to be imported and bought online. I've read just great things for both, seems that the endgame could be the MZ2 and even single ended would outperform rivals. As to perceptible difference, might be just subjective. Objectively might be, whether I'll spend that big amount of cash on an MZ2 as a smart decision, that If I get the LP I could also upgrade my speaker system or some other classy headphones too.

 

[LCMusicLover]

I'm deciding between the LP or the LTA MZ2, the MZ2 it's almost triple the price of the LP and no XLR output, I cannot hear them both before buying since they both had to be imported and bought online. I've read just great things for both, seems that the endgame could be the MZ2 and even single ended would outperform rivals. As to perceptible difference, might be just subjective. Objectively might be, whether I'll spend that big amount of cash on an MZ2 as a smart decision, that If I get the LP I could also upgrade my speaker system or some other classy headphones too.

Tough call.

I guess how much you value:

- balanced I/O
- enough juice to power 'difficult to drive' headphones

vs

- preamp functionality
- remote control (optional @ $250)
- ability to drive (very) efficient speakers

becomes a big part of the equation.

As far as sound quality is concerned, it's probably going to be hard to find someone who can directly compare them as the MZ2 is a somewhat niche product, and LP is pretty new.

There are a couple pretty detailed reviews here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/linear-tube-audio-microzotl-2.20916/reviews

and the second one references this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mic...-amp-and-preamp-a-breakthrough-device.771234/

which seems active. Perhaps someone there will help.

One thing I will say -- you'll probably end up purchasing some kind of attenuation hardware for the LP, unless your DAC has low or adjustable output.

GLTY

 

[Gauss1777]

Tough call.

I guess how much you value:

- balanced I/O
- enough juice to power 'difficult to drive' headphones

vs

- preamp functionality
- remote control (optional @ $250)
- ability to drive (very) efficient speakers

becomes a big part of the equation.

As far as sound quality is concerned, it's probably going to be hard to find someone who can directly compare them as the MZ2 is a somewhat niche product, and LP is pretty new.

There are a couple pretty detailed reviews here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/linear-tube-audio-microzotl-2.20916/reviews

and the second one references this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mic...-amp-and-preamp-a-breakthrough-device.771234/

which seems active. Perhaps someone there will help.

One thing I will say -- you'll probably end up purchasing some kind of attenuation hardware for the LP, unless your DAC has low or adjustable output.

GLTY

I won't use the preamp or sesnsitive speakers. It would be just by the final output to the headphones.

As for the attenuation on the LP, my DX7s can control the volumen on the line out, but to my perception, seems the overall macro dynamics becomes weaker when comparing to the same overall level volumen when setting the DAC at 0db (full line out), maybe because the volume attenuation on the DAC is digital.

I'm using by now a Liquid Spark between the DX7s and the iBasso SR1.

I use too an HD600. Balanced from the DX7s amp section sounds overall better than from the LS+SR1 but the more extended bass that the SR1 has Is missing.

My feeling Is that the LP would be a mix of the things I like most from the HD600 on the Bottlehead Crack and the faster tighter sound from a SS when using my HD600. The result with the SR1 maybe similar.

The question is, what would I do with my SR1 if it doesn't make the big difference compared to what I have even if I get the LP. I've read and I'm told that it would scale better than the HD600 on high stuff. One guy at the MZ2 thread uses this combo and just talks marvels.

 

[LCMusicLover]

I won't use the preamp or sesnsitive speakers. It would be just by the final output to the headphones.

As for the attenuation on the LP, my DX7s can control the volumen on the line out, but to my perception, seems the overall macro dynamics becomes weaker when comparing to the same overall level volumen when setting the DAC at 0db (full line out), maybe because the volume attenuation on the DAC is digital.

Yes, if the DAC is preforming attenuation on the digital signal, you're losing bits. There's quite a bit of discussion/controversy about whether the loss is audible or not. IIRC the consensus seems to be that it will be noticeable for 16-bit signals, but probably won't be at higher bit-rates.

I have no idea what happens if you attenuate an up-sampled digital signal. Hopefully up-sampling happens in front of attenuation.

Assuming you are using the DX7's XLR output, the output voltage is 4 Vrms, which will definitely be hot enough to cause gain issue with sensitive cans. With my Denafrips Pontus (4.4 Vrms output) I had a lot of trouble with my Utopia. I've got a preamp to solve that, but, obviously, that's also more money, which will factor into your decision.

 

[MikeW]

I love the RME for this, it has excellent attenuation, a combo of analog and digital attenuation. They intelligently adust digital attenuation until a threshold is met and then drop analog attenuation, and if more attenuation is needed the cycle continues, always keeping digital attenuation at a minimum, this is done transparently to the end user, and also at 32Bit.

@ Runeeight, the worst part about Amir's review is he actually realizes the Balanced output mode is significantly better than the Single ended mode, and then chooses to mostly ignore it, he does comment on it slightly, but does not run anymore test. Interestingly enough he did give LP huge props for large amounts of power delivered before clipping, and enjoyed the amp in a subjective listening test. Which is a bit of a new thing for amir, i've been reading his site for a few years and I've noticed a bit of a change in his trend. He used to be a by the measurements only guy, and as time has progressed he's made a few concessions here and there, but it's mild. His back and forth between the guys at Soekris was interesting, and as a rapport was made between the two, you could clearly see it's influence in his review of the 1541, not nearly as harsh as he typically is. Particularly frustrating with the LP is I believe it would be in his top echelon of performance if it had been measured as a balanced only unit. But is instead relegated to the lower section of his charts because of SE SINAD. He was pretty harsh on the power supply and power circuit, even though the amp clearly cancel's out the vast majority of noise when ran balanced. It's really dumb the way he wrote that whole thing up.

 

[runeight]

I love the RME for this, it has excellent attenuation, a combo of analog and digital attenuation. They intelligently adust digital attenuation until a threshold is met and then drop analog attenuation, and if more attenuation is needed the cycle continues, always keeping digital attenuation at a minimum, this is done transparently to the end user, and also at 32Bit.

@ Runeeight, the worst part about Amir's review is he actually realizes the Balanced output mode is significantly better than the Single ended mode, and then chooses to mostly ignore it, he does comment on it slightly, but does not run anymore test. Interestingly enough he did give LP huge props for large amounts of power delivered before clipping, and enjoyed the amp in a subjective listening test. Which is a bit of a new thing for amir, i've been reading his site for a few years and I've noticed a bit of a change in his trend. He used to be a by the measurements only guy, and as time has progressed he's made a few concessions here and there, but it's mild. His back and forth between the guys at Soekris was interesting, and as a rapport was made between the two, you could clearly see it's influence in his review of the 1541, not nearly as harsh as he typically is. Particularly frustrating with the LP is I believe it would be in his top echelon of performance if it had been measured as a balanced only unit. But is instead relegated to the lower section of his charts because of SE SINAD. He was pretty harsh on the power supply and power circuit, even though the amp clearly cancel's out the vast majority of noise when ran balanced. It's really dumb the way he wrote that whole thing up.

Thanks for the summary. It does great damage to have a review like this that is based on faulty or incomplete or improper measurements, especially for those individuals who might not know the limitations in the methodology. I'm not sure how to fix this..............

 

[MikeW]

I wouldn't bother, Amir's preaching to an already converted, drank the koolaid crowd. Just read some of the comments by his zealots in the forums at his site. It's not worth your time, don't sweat it. I and many others are well aware of your contributions to the hobby over the years. You've got nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[runeight]

I wouldn't bother, Amir's preaching to an already converted, drank the koolaid crowd. Just read some of the comments by his zealots in the forums at his site. It's not worth your time, don't sweat it.

Yes. But this kind of thing spreads around and becomes fixed in people's minds. I'm not happy about it.