[Slashn77]

edit double post

 

[Slashn77]

Has anyone had experience with these vs the Mod house Argon Mark3 (even though there’s a crazy 6 week wait) or even the Hifiman 4xx since they were under $200

I don’t care about open vs closed and mainly use hd 650s right now but I want a headphone better for EDM classic rock and some 90’s Hiphop which I don’t like the HD 650s for(classic rock is ok with them)

I will be driving them mainly off my portable unit with the FIIO Q1 mark II which is 195mw into 32 ohms so I’m not sure if that’s a deal breaker for the argons which are a T50rp that is known to be extremely hard to drive even though I do not listen at any crazy levels. The Q1 does Power my 300 ohm 650s on high gain at 60-70% volume nicely when I’m not at my desk when I use a mayflower ARC.
Any opinions? Really want to stay under $500 new or used
Thanks In advance

 

[kukkurovaca]

Has anyone had experience with these vs the Mod house Argon Mark3 (even though there’s a crazy 6 week wait) or even the Hifiman 4xx since they were under $200

I don’t care about open vs closed and mainly use hd 650s right now but I want a headphone better for EDM classic rock and some 90’s Hiphop which I don’t like the HD 650s for(classic rock is ok with them)

I will be driving them mainly off my portable unit with the FIIO Q1 mark II which is 195mw into 32 ohms so I’m not sure if that’s a deal breaker for the argons which are a T50rp that is known to be extremely hard to drive even though I do not listen at any crazy levels. The Q1 does Power my 300 ohm 650s on high gain at 60-70% volume nicely when I’m not at my desk when I use a mayflower ARC.
Any opinions? Really want to stay under $500 new or used
Thanks In advance

Will you be using them balanced? I think the Q1 Mark II's single-ended output is quite a bit lower than its balanced output. The ARC should be fine though.

 

[Slashn77]

Will you be using them balanced? I think the Q1 Mark II's single-ended output is quite a bit lower than its balanced output. The ARC should be fine though.

My Hd 650s I do not use balanced but balanced is 240mw at 16ohms.
The Argona come with a v mods cable that is 3.5mm to 3.5mm if I am not mistaken. If it is then yes it would be cheap for me to get a 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced cable for the argons for the extra power

Edit:I do most of my listening moving around the house and back yard so I will be mainly (70%) using these out of my Q1
Edit again sorry: how are the microphonics of the cable with the m1060c?
Since I walk around I read a couple amazon reviews that say the microphonics is loud. If so any replacement cable recommendations?

 

[kukkurovaca]

The Argona come with a v mods cable that is 3.5mm to 3.5mm if I am not mistaken. If it is then yes it would be cheap for me to get a 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced cable for the argons for the extra power

Ack, don't do that! You can't go from single-ended headphone to balanced amp with an adapter without risking damage to your amp. (And it would not result in balanced output anyway.) You can go the opposite way (balanced headphones with adapter to single-ended amp).

To drive the Argons balanced you would need to rewire the headphones themselves and replace the 3.5mm jack with some other connection. (The ZMF Classic would be an option if you want an off-the-shelf balanced T50 mod.)

The power requirements of moderately high impedance dynamic driver headphones like the HD650 aren't the same as low-impedance low-sensitivity planar driver headphones. Q1MKII is 75mw at 32ohm in single-ended, which is on the low side, probably? That would be similar to the single-ended output of my ALO CDM, which is underpowered for T50/Argon use.

 

[stimuz]

My Hd 650s I do not use balanced but balanced is 240mw at 16ohms.
The Argona come with a v mods cable that is 3.5mm to 3.5mm if I am not mistaken. If it is then yes it would be cheap for me to get a 3.5mm to 2.5mm balanced cable for the argons for the extra power

Edit:I do most of my listening moving around the house and back yard so I will be mainly (70%) using these out of my Q1
Edit again sorry: how are the microphonics of the cable with the m1060c?
Since I walk around I read a couple amazon reviews that say the microphonics is loud. If so any replacement cable recommendations?

micro phonics on stock cable are awful, but it seems to take any hd700 and some of the hifiman cables. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29515 that also has 0 microphonics and looks cool.

 

[Slashn77]

Ack, don't do that! You can't go from single-ended headphone to balanced amp with an adapter without risking damage to your amp. (And it would not result in balanced output anyway.) You can go the opposite way (balanced headphones with adapter to single-ended amp).

To drive the Argons balanced you would need to rewire the headphones themselves and replace the 3.5mm jack with some other connection. (The ZMF Classic would be an option if you want an off-the-shelf balanced T50 mod.)

The power requirements of moderately high impedance dynamic driver headphones like the HD650 aren't the same as low-impedance low-sensitivity planar driver headphones. Q1MKII is 75mw at 32ohm in single-ended, which is on the low side, probably? That would be similar to the single-ended output of my ALO CDM, which is underpowered for T50/Argon use.

Yeah I figured it would be under powered but the reviews online for the Argons are so amazing. Same with the m1060c but I would have to get a cable without crazy microphonics because that has been a deal breaker when getting iems

 

[Slashn77]

micro phonics on stock cable are awful, but it seems to take any hd700 and some of the hifiman cables. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=29515 that also has 0 microphonics and looks cool.

Thank you!
I have the m1060c and that cable in my cart just making sure with a couple other phones like the 4xx which z gave a great review for only $170. I’m sure they will come back to massdrop but don’t want to wait months

 

[frizfnatic]

Thank you!
I have the m1060c and that cable in my cart just making sure with a couple other phones like the 4xx which z gave a great review for only $170. I’m sure they will come back to massdrop but don’t want to wait months

Just came back on Massdrop today actually

 

[Slashn77]

Just came back on Massdrop today actually

Wow I just looked that is crazy they’ve been gone for a while but listing says still in manufacturing process so that’s like when I waited 4.5 months for the 6XX.
But still it is half the price of the M1060s. Unless the M1060\closed is in a different league than 4xx for planars.Also the 400’s we’re plagued with comfort issues but man this just made my decision so much harder.I will not be modding either one.
I neeed to go in the corner and think

 

[bjaardker]

IMHO the M1060c is definitely in a different league than the 4xx. I found the sound on the 4xx to be detailed but very thin without any warmth, depth, or bass.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

IMHO the M1060c is definitely in a different league than the 4xx. I found the sound on the 4xx to be detailed but very thin without any warmth, depth, or bass.

the female vocals on my HE-400S with lambskin earpads sounds loads better than M1060 or C variant. but the bass is indeed lacking a lot.

 

[theangelboy]

Wow I just looked that is crazy they’ve been gone for a while but listing says still in manufacturing process so that’s like when I waited 4.5 months for the 6XX.
But still it is half the price of the M1060s. Unless the M1060\closed is in a different league than 4xx for planars.Also the 400’s we’re plagued with comfort issues but man this just made my decision so much harder.I will not be modding either one.
I neeed to go in the corner and think

Different league? I don't think so. The HE4XX are very competent headphones, especially for half the freaking price of the M1060C. Yeah, they aren't as bassy or warm as the M1060. However, the right amp and/or some EQ can make the bass on the 4XX very nice. 4XX build? Really good, better than any M1060 or C. 4XX Comfort? Great! I had to mod the heck out of my M1060 to get it comfortable, with a headband padding mod and new earpads.
With all that being said, I should say that I had to change pads on 4XX. I switched from the stock Focus-A pads to the regular Focus pads since, for some reason, due to shape of my head/ears/jaw I was getting no bass out of them with the A pads unless I partially lifted them off of my head. No other pads I tried on the 4XX had this problem. This is a fairly rare problem, but I saw some of the comment section on Massdrop have had this issue. With regular Focus pads they have more bass and much better controlled treble than my HE-400 (not i or s).

So, bottom line, is the M1060C better sound-wise? Yeah, probably, but they freaking should be for twice the price of the HE4XX. But, weird pad issue aside, the stock sound for the HE4XX was better than my M1060 (haven't heart a stock C). So, of course, YMMV, but that's my two cents on the matter.

 

[stimuz]

Different league? I don't think so. The HE4XX are very competent headphones, especially for half the freaking price of the M1060C. Yeah, they aren't as bassy or warm as the M1060. However, the right amp and/or some EQ can make the bass on the 4XX very nice. 4XX build? Really good, better than any M1060 or C. 4XX Comfort? Great! I had to mod the heck out of my M1060 to get it comfortable, with a headband padding mod and new earpads.
With all that being said, I should say that I had to change pads on 4XX. I switched from the stock Focus-A pads to the regular Focus pads since, for some reason, due to shape of my head/ears/jaw I was getting no bass out of them with the A pads unless I partially lifted them off of my head. No other pads I tried on the 4XX had this problem. This is a fairly rare problem, but I saw some of the comment section on Massdrop have had this issue. With regular Focus pads they have more bass and much better controlled treble than my HE-400 (not i or s).

So, bottom line, is the M1060C better sound-wise? Yeah, probably, but they freaking should be for twice the price of the HE4XX. But, weird pad issue aside, the stock sound for the HE4XX was better than my M1060 (haven't heart a stock C). So, of course, YMMV, but that's my two cents on the matter.

So after that long comparison what you're saying is you've only got the m1060 original to compare to the 4xx.

 

[jdoo]

Well I've had all three and liked the 1060 v2 best after mods with the 1060c best stock. The 4xx is very nice but needs mods too to get bass and a bit more clarity. Imo the 1060c would be my choice if I were not modding .If price is an issue and you aren't comparing then you likely would be happy with the 4xx but it really is a noticeable step up to the 1060 versions.