[Rayon]

During my audiophile years I've noticed that there are some differences between the cheapest and decent cables, but I have also once owned Chord Tuned Aray @ 1000€ a pair and it was a letdown as it sounded the same as "ok" cables with the setup I had back then. My current expectation is that an optimal solution from SQ/wallet -point of view would be to find a cable producer that focuses more on cables and less on marketing and one should be able to get 98% of the benefits with 10%-40% of the cost. I started researching the topic.

Here are measurements of some "reasonably priced, but valued" cables from ASR:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-rca-cables-mogami-amazon-monoprice.27871/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-budget-xlr-cables.31301/

Ok, so at least the measurements support my experiences. However, I have no experiences of proper "considered as standard" -cables, but some random cables that I have got with equipment. So I started looking for some cables in the review. I was reading about Mogami and Canare and found a company in EU that was selling those both. I checked the RCA and XLR section and Mogami seemed to be the top brand when ordered by "Featured". I did some reading about product codes of Mogami and ended up buying these (which also happened both be #1 in the list when ordered by featured):

RCA (2803)

https://www.audiocables.eu/products/mogami-2803-rca-to-rca-hi-fi-interconnect-cable-w-gold-neutrik-connectors

Specifications of the cable used:
https://www.cma.audio/en/detail/index/sArticle/1811

Especially the description of the RCA cable promises a lot:

2803 has been evaluated as the world's highest resolution and rich detailed cable in the world market.
Because of pursuit of reducing the effect of the cable to improve resolution to the utmost limit, it may
not suit all systems depending on the situation. This cable works well when a vivid original sound
image, without any coloration to the signal, is wanted.

Also the reviews of the RCA sound quite promising:

A few years ago I decided to replace all the very expensive interconnects of my very pricey stereo, with the "humble" mogami 2549 interconnects (~5 € per single meter not terminated!!), and guess what: Mogami 2549 sounds 2 classes better in all areas of audio reproduction!!
Recently I decided to try the most “expensive” interconnect of all mogamis, the 2803 (~75 € per single meter not terminated!!) and this was (and still it is) a shocking experience! Namely:
The best HF I've ever heard (in extension, transparency, detail, shimmering and all of them with an incredible body, not at all thin or weak).
Also, excellent MF, with a very sweet definition, and tonality, but also with impressive pace, focus, crispness, coherence and macro - microdynamics.
But where it really shines, is in LF (bass and mind-bass)! They are the most exciting I've ever heard with incredible extension, vigor, but also description of the slightest micro-dynamics, even the slightest caress of a bass string, or of the membrane of a drum.
Add to the above an extremely wide and deep soundstage with a very precise focus!
I’m sorry (but extremely happy) to verdict that (IMHO) mogami 2803 (of ~75€/m) sonically shames most of the cost no object boutique interconnects (costing no less than a few thousands € per meter).
Let me not forget to emphasize the excellent service and advisory helpfulness of the audiocables.eu and the immediacy of shipping in a very safe package.

Man these cables are something special, I see why people love or hate these cables. They are definitely not suitable for systems/applications with poor digital equipment. Thay will reveal digital flaws instantly. However, I bought them to be used between my phono preamp and amplifier. Now I can tell if a vinyl record was digitally sourced or not. As Nikos well wrote in the product description it may not suit all systems. Give them a good/true analogue source or a top digital one and they will shine. If used between a digital source and the amplifier doesn't sound "right" , the problem is with the digital source.

I recently bought the mogami 2803 rca cable for my hi fi system. as I was using a fairly cheap one for a long time so I wanted something that was hi end as I have a 70s vintage sony amp and vintage sony speakers that sounds great any way. so when I pluged the 2803 into it it was a step up in the sound quality it has a very warm and natural sound wide stage great separation of the instruments like as if that's the way music should sound naturally through a hi fi. but bear in mind you should only buy one if you already have a great hi fi system to do it justice. it is expensive but in my opinion well worth it. as what I have read about it there is no better cable out there. so don't waste money on cheap rca cables just buy this one. you wont be disappointed. there is also the mogami 2497 that is just as good but a bit cheaper with a slightly different sound stage to it. hope this helps. cheers.

Just received my Mogami 2803 RCA to RCA w/ Gold Switchcraft Connectors, here in Denmark. Swift delivery, precise information, amazing sound quality. Replaced a pair of quite fine cables and the difference was, from the very first second and without any burn-in, so outstanding on my Denon POA-2200, that I could almost not believe my own ears. Soundstage, stereo image, bass punch, details were all taken to a new level. Thanks for this excellent product. I shall return in the future.

XLR (2549)

https://www.audiocables.eu/products/mogami-2549-balanced-pair-cable-w-gold-neutrik-xlr-connectors

Specifications of the cable used:
https://www.cma.audio/en/categories...-cable/mogami-2549-00-microphone-cable-neglex

Description of the XLR doesn't sound bad either:

W2549 has been designed using the famous Neglex OFC to provide the highest quality audio reproduction in any recording application. It features #22AWG conductors and extremely low capacitance. The 100% coverage served shield and twisted pair construction is excellent at preventing noise caused by electromagnetic interference. This cable is recommended when extended high frequencies are important or where long cable runs may be needed.

Reviews:

You literally won't find anything better than this even if you go ten times higher in price. I'm extremely impressed by the quality and craftsmanship that can't get any better.

Hard to find better quality audio cable.
I use Mogami 2549 for mixing and mastering

I'm using two of these 2m cables to connect my Adam Sub7 to HEDD Type 05 studio monitors, and they are fast, clean & transparant. The Neglex 2549 is a winner and is now my top choice to connect every audio component.

The cables are beautifully made, sturdy, absolutely the best quality. Excellent service and speedy delivery! I received these within a few days after ordering. If you want an XLR cable for home or studio, look no further!


Will report back once I get them and have been tested them in between of Holo May and SparkoS Aries (with Focal Utopia). I may even write a review, especially if the experience is good.

 

[IanB52]

Mogami is the recording industry standard, and I have a home studio wired up with Mogami Gold.

That said, I did try the XLRs out in my home system between DAC, preamp, and amp, and they were handily crushed by Audioquest Colorado. The Colorados are not the most impressive XLRs I have owned. Mogami are reasonably priced industry workhorses, but are not very impressive compared to most audiophile cables over $100.

 

[Rayon]

did try the XLRs out in my home system between DAC, preamp, and amp, and they were handily crushed by Audioquest Colorado

Mogami are reasonably priced industry workhorses, but are not very impressive compared to most audiophile cables over $100.

Why do you think this is? I would like to be able to identify what property/measurement usually makes a good cable in order to be able to identify the real deal from snake oil. I do believe both of these statements are true:
1) There is a product group A which sounds better than group B, but they look the same in some measurements (we just don't yet know how to measure the thing that actually makes A better)
2) There are companies that sell expensive products, claiming that these products belong to group A, while they actually scientifically belong to group B (we just can't prove this yet, because we haven't yet identified the thing that makes A better than B)

Currently I feel like there are multiple companies with widely differently priced cables, but no proper way to compare them online. It doesn't help that people disagree on if and what differences they can hear between the cables. I would love to find "the Topping A90" of cables as a safe starting point and then start from there. To my eyes Mogami looked like exactly that: measurements all look good, low capacitance, etc. It doesn't mean that something else couldn't be better, but that was the cheapest option that's already perfect in measurements.

 

[IanB52]

Why do you think this is? I would like to be able to identify what property/measurement usually makes a good cable in order to be able to identify the real deal from snake oil. I do believe both of these statements are true:
1) There is a product group A which sounds better than group B, but they look the same in some measurements (we just don't yet know how to measure the thing that actually makes A better)
2) There are companies that sell expensive products, claiming that these products belong to group A, while they actually scientifically belong to group B (we just can't prove this yet, because we haven't yet identified the thing that makes A better than B)

Currently I feel like there are multiple companies with widely differently priced cables, but no proper way to compare them online. It doesn't help that people disagree on if and what differences they can hear between the cables. I would love to find "the Topping A90" of cables as a safe starting point and then start from there. To my eyes Mogami looked like exactly that: measurements all look good, low capacitance, etc. It doesn't mean that something else couldn't be better, but that was the cheapest option that's already perfect in measurements.

I couldn't really say. I haven't owned that many audiophile type interconnects, and maybe I just choose well, but I haven't come across any that were outright snake oil. I have encountered some that were overpriced for what they did, but nothing that was actually bunk or worse than my Mogami interconnects, and certainly all were way better than say ProCo or cables for live sound.

The ones I've used have been AudioQuest, Wireworld, Transparent Audio (nice, but not transparent or cost competitive), Zenwave (probably the worst measuring, but they were nice) and Shunyata which is my mainstay. Plus Double Helix, Cardas, Kimber Kable and Danacables headphone cables.

Plenty of these manufacturers have their own claim to be special, and some have their own unique measurements. The common themes are attention to dielectric effect, low capacitance, RFI rejection, OCC copper, and thoughtful wire geometry.

I haven't actually seen many cable measurements, and don't really know which metrics are most important. I hate to say it, but they might be a useful way of weeding out something truly bad, but beyond a certain point it won't necessarily tell you what will be good in your system. I wish it were easier. It's been more of a trial and error journey for me, so thats all I can say.

 

[Rayon]

I couldn't really say. I haven't owned that many audiophile type interconnects, and maybe I just choose well, but I haven't come across any that were outright snake oil. I have encountered some that were overpriced for what they did, but nothing that was actually bunk or worse than my Mogami interconnects, and certainly all were way better than say ProCo or cables for live sound.

The ones I've used have been AudioQuest, Wireworld, Transparent Audio (nice, but not transparent or cost competitive), Zenwave (probably the worst measuring, but they were nice) and Shunyata which is my mainstay. Plus Double Helix, Cardas, Kimber Kable and Danacables headphone cables.

Plenty of these manufacturers have their own claim to be special, and some have their own unique measurements. The common themes are attention to dielectric effect, low capacitance, RFI rejection, OCC copper, and thoughtful wire geometry.

I haven't actually seen many cable measurements, and don't really know which metrics are most important. I hate to say it, but they might be a useful way of weeding out something truly bad, but beyond a certain point it won't necessarily tell you what will be good in your system. I wish it were easier. It's been more of a trial and error journey for me, so thats all I can say.

Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated. Do you think there is a value sweet spot somewhere? Also what brand would you recommend for budget conscious?

 

[IanB52]

Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated. Do you think there is a value sweet spot somewhere? Also what brand would you recommend for budget conscious?

Definitely get stuff used. I would probably go with a used Shunyata Venom as I tend to like their products, but there may be better answers. Generally Shunyata stuff tends to measure well from what I have seen. I had some Audioquest King Cobras for a while and they weren't bad, and the Colorado were a step up.

I'd estimate that $500-$1000 dollars new is a pretty good plateau (though not the last) for cables.

Maybe someone else can chime in.

I do want to add, you can definitely use Mogami and your system will play music fine. Most big recording studios wire their microphones and speakers with them. It just wasn't my pick SQ wise.

 

[Rayon]

Definitely get stuff used. I would probably go with a used Shunyata Venom as I tend to like their products, but there may be better answers. Generally Shunyata stuff tends to measure well from what I have seen. I had some Audioquest King Cobras for a while and they weren't bad, and the Colorado were a step up.

I'd estimate that $500-$1000 dollars new is a pretty good plateau (though not the last) for cables.

Maybe someone else can chime in.

I do want to add, you can definitely use Mogami and your system will play music fine. Most big recording studios wire their microphones and speakers with them. It just wasn't my pick SQ wise.

I started thinking further, which lengths are you using? I wonder if the difference is already so clear with 0.3m-1m (or 1-3ft).

 

[IanB52]

I started thinking further, which lengths are you using? I wonder if the difference is already so clear with 0.3m-1m (or 1-3ft).

I use 1 meter for the hifi cables. I believe the Mogami I compared was 5ft, but I also can't really see how 2ft would make much a difference at line level.

 

[Rayon]

Definitely get stuff used. I would probably go with a used Shunyata Venom as I tend to like their products, but there may be better answers. Generally Shunyata stuff tends to measure well from what I have seen. I had some Audioquest King Cobras for a while and they weren't bad, and the Colorado were a step up.

I'd estimate that $500-$1000 dollars new is a pretty good plateau (though not the last) for cables.

Maybe someone else can chime in.

I do want to add, you can definitely use Mogami and your system will play music fine. Most big recording studios wire their microphones and speakers with them. It just wasn't my pick SQ wise.

Had an open mind and listened to your advice. I did following modifications to my plan:

1. Cancelled most of the cables from my original order, leaving only one 1m 2549 XLR for comparison testing
2. Bought 2nd hand 1m Shunyata Venom XLR from US

Will compare the two when they arrive, pick one and sell the other. Shunyata is quite known (and rare in Europe), so I should be able to sell it forward without a huge loss if the difference to Mogami isn't big enough.

 

[IanB52]

Had an open mind and listened to your advice. I did following modifications to my plan:

1. Cancelled most of the cables from my original order, leaving only one 1m 2549 XLR for comparison testing
2. Bought 2nd hand 1m Shunyata Venom XLR from US

Will compare the two when they arrive, pick one and sell the other. Shunyata is quite known (and rare in Europe), so I should be able to sell it forward without a huge loss if the difference to Mogami isn't big enough.

Nice! One of them will definitely work for you. Good idea.

I'm sure people on here will be interested in your conclusions as well.

 

[Rayon]

Nice! One of them will definitely work for you. Good idea.

I'm sure people on here will be interested in your conclusions as well.

Just got Venoms. Let the match begin

 

[Rayon]

Nice! One of them will definitely work for you. Good idea.

I'm sure people on here will be interested in your conclusions as well.

Ok, I was so wrong. I hoped that there would be no difference and I assumed some, but somewhat incremental upgrade. This is all but incremental.

I was first listening to Venoms something like 20-30 minutes so that my brain could adjust to it's sound. My first inital impressions (even though I hadn't listened to my setup in a week) were that bass had never sounded so good (more impact and bigger space), but then I did the A/B comparison.

When I switched back to Mogami after Venoms:

• Bass was suddenly blocked
  • The difference was absolutely ridiculous, like someone sucked all the steam from it
• Everything was smaller, soundstage felt like it was congested and somewhat pathetic
• In general less information
  • Especially all the micronuances
  • Loss of "snappiness", big difference in this as well
• It felt like my Holo May had downgraded one or two steps into something mediocre
  • This made me smile as I started wondering what a waste it has been listening to May with Mogami
  • I feel like I actually hear May for the first time with Venom

Then back to Venom:

• Music opens up
• The space in which bass is represented is... lol, these can't even be compared
• Bass is also... I would like to say more authoritative but it would be such an understatement
  • Bass is basically completely a different animal with these, unrecognizable in comparison
• Soundstage is a lot bigger and placement within the stage is at completely another level
• Everything in general is a lot more convincing

TL;DR; Thank you @IanB52 . This was incredibly useful and I absolutely love these cables. I wouldn't had believed that cables can make such a difference when the other gear is high enough level. Just wow.

 

[IanB52]

Ok, I was so wrong. I hoped that there would be no difference and I assumed some, but somewhat incremental upgrade. This is all but incremental.

I was first listening to Venoms something like 20-30 minutes so that my brain could adjust to it's sound. My first inital impressions (even though I hadn't listened to my setup in a week) were that bass had never sounded so good (more impact and bigger space), but then I did the A/B comparison.

When I switched back to Mogami after Venoms:

• Bass was suddenly blocked
  • The difference was absolutely ridiculous, like someone sucked all the steam from it
• Everything was smaller, soundstage felt like it was congested and somewhat pathetic
• In general less information
  • Especially all the micronuances
  • Loss of "snappiness", big difference in this as well
• It felt like my Holo May had downgraded one or two steps into something mediocre
  • This made me smile as I started wondering what a waste it has been listening to May with Mogami
  • I feel like I actually hear May for the first time

Then back to Venoms:

• Music opens up
• The space in which bass is represented is... lol, these can't even be compared
• Bass is also... I would like to say more authoritative but it would be such an understatement
  • Bass is basically completely a different animal with these, unrecognizable in comparison
• Soundstage is a lot bigger and placement within the stage is at completely another level
• Everything in general is a lot more convincing

TL;DR; Thank you @IanB52 . This was incredibly useful and I absolutely love these cables. I wouldn't had believed that cables can make such a difference when the other gear is high enough level. Just wow.

Nice! I'm glad those worked out for you and match well with the May. I totally agree with you about the bass and soundstage.

 

[Dogmatrix]

Interconnects made with Belden 8402 are also very good in a no snake oil kind of way

 

[hifitoaster]

I wonder if the Venom RCA cables are of a similar caliber.