Modi2/magni2 Hd 650 clear but harsh.

[IronStolf]

Hi,
New to this forum and mid range headphones. I recently purchased a new Modi2, Magni2 and HD650. I also own a 598SE. I started listening to the Modi/Magni with the 598SE. I immediately noticed more clarity over my soundblaster XFI/HD sound card but unfortunately with the cleaner sq came a bit of harshness (perhaps mids?). I tried with the HD650's, when they arrived and it sounded cleaner; better base and separated. Unfortunately, the harshness increased. I decided to upgrade to an Asgard 2 to see if that would help the situation. The harshness was slightly reduced but still worse than the HD598SE. After testing for a few hours, it actually gave me a headache (perhaps volume too loud?). The music I listen to is mainly rap/hip-hop, reggae, rock, metal and play games. Upon more research, I ordered the HE400i's. They will be delivered on Sunday. I am trying to get a satisfactory sound in the next week, so I can return what I am not using. I don't want to return everything but it is getting close to that. I'd rather avoid tube amps if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PurpleAngel]

For audio files, try using Foobar2000, with the WASAPI component installed, see if that improves audio quality.

 

[Monsterzero]

If this your first venture into upgrading your components it might be that youre not used to the sonic differences between your old set-up and new.

My computer set-up is significantly warmer and less detailed(standard issue soundcard+Magni Uber 2) than my home setup.

 

[IronStolf]

Thank you for your responses.

For audio files, try using Foobar2000, with the WASAPI component installed, see if that improves audio quality.

I am using Cyberlink PowerDVD but I can switch to a different player. It'seems not really a Sq issue. It just sounds like maybe the mid's are higher than the rest causing a harsh sound. The separation is really good so I can't use the word drowning out.

If this your first venture into upgrading your components it might be that youre not used to the sonic differences between your old set-up and new.


My computer set-up is significantly warmer and less detailed(standard issue soundcard+Magni Uber 2) than my home setup.

This may very well be the case. Is there anything I can do to warm things up a bit and slowly transition? How long does it usually take to become acclimated? Would the HE400i's be darker or have calmer mids? I have tried Equalizer APO which helps quite a bit, but it does reduce quality.

 

[Monsterzero]

Thank you for your responses.
I am using Cyberlink PowerDVD but I can switch to a different player. It'seems not really a Sq issue. It just sounds like maybe the mid's are higher than the rest causing a harsh sound. The separation is really good so I can't use the word drowning out.
This may very well be the case. Is there anything I can do to warm things up a bit and slowly transition? How long does it usually take to become acclimated? Would the HE400i's be darker or have calmer mids? I have tried Equalizer APO which helps quite a bit, but it does reduce quality.

dont quote me on this but I have read others complaining of amps and/or DACs needing a "burn-in" period before they settle down.(EDIT) If you Google "DAC burn-in" you will get a lot of results,many that contradict others...might be worth your time to read up. 

I do know that my Sony HAP S1 fresh outta the box was painfully bright....it isnt now.

No the HE-400 will not be darker in the mids...you have one of the warmer headphones out there already in the HD650.Pretty much any headphone I would imagine would amplify the issue.

 

[Me x3]

I don't think HE400i will do the trick for you, you should try the AQ Nighthawks
Lowering the listening level is always a wise move.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Thank you for your responses.
I am using Cyberlink PowerDVD but I can switch to a different player. It'seems not really a Sq issue. It just sounds like maybe the mid's are higher than the rest causing a harsh sound. The separation is really good so I can't use the word drowning out.

 
Ok, so your using Cyberlink PowerDVD for playing music audio files.
PowerDVD is loaded with lots of different settings, so one or two settings might not be set correctly.
Try Foobar2000, with WASAPI, a lot less fancy settings to deal with.

 

[IronStolf]

dont quote me on this but I have read others complaining of amps and/or DACs needing a "burn-in" period before they settle down.(EDIT) If you Google "DAC burn-in" you will get a lot of results,many that contradict others...might be worth your time to read up. 


I do know that my Sony HAP S1 fresh outta the box was painfully bright....it isnt now.


No the HE-400 will not be darker in the mids...you have one of the warmer headphones out there already in the HD650.Pretty much any headphone I would imagine would amplify the issue.

Thanks I'll do some research on it.

I don't think HE400i will do the trick for you, you should try the AQ Nighthawks
Lowering the listening level is always a wise move.

Thanks I'll look into those. I decided to try the HE400i because a couple people on this forum said they were better for rap music, more bass and faster responding. Another thread had them listed as an upgrade from the HD650. Would you disagree with that? I understand that they will not help my particular problem. I'd prefer not to go tubes, but if I replace the Asgard with a vali2 with that solve my problem or at least put me in the right direction?

 

[Me x3]

Thanks I'll look into those. I decided to try the HE400i because a couple people on this forum said they were better for rap music, more bass and faster responding. Another thread had them listed as an upgrade from the HD650. Would you disagree with that? I understand that they will not help my particular problem. I'd prefer not to go tubes, but if I replace the Asgard with a vali2 with that solve my problem or at least put me in the right direction?

Bass on HD650 is more punchy/mid-bassy while bass on HE400i is flatter, cleaner and more extended.
HE400i has more treble than HD650, that's why I wouldn't reccommend it to someone who find HD650 harsh.
 
Nighthawks on the other hand hand are softer than HD650 with cleaner and more extended bass.
 
Personal preferences are more important than what people consider upgrade/downgrade.
 
Differences among amplifiers are not that big, so if you want a different sound best you can do is find the right headphone.
The one that suits your preferences the best.

 

[theveterans]

Hi,
New to this forum and mid range headphones. I recently purchased a new Modi2, Magni2 and HD650. I also own a 598SE. I started listening to the Modi/Magni with the 598SE. I immediately noticed more clarity over my soundblaster XFI/HD sound card but unfortunately with the cleaner sq came a bit of harshness (perhaps mids?). I tried with the HD650's, when they arrived and it sounded cleaner; better base and separated. Unfortunately, the harshness increased. I decided to upgrade to an Asgard 2 to see if that would help the situation. The harshness was slightly reduced but still worse than the HD598SE. After testing for a few hours, it actually gave me a headache (perhaps volume too loud?). The music I listen to is mainly rap/hip-hop, reggae, rock, metal and play games. Upon more research, I ordered the HE400i's. They will be delivered on Sunday. I am trying to get a satisfactory sound in the next week, so I can return what I am not using. I don't want to return everything but it is getting close to that. I'd rather avoid tube amps if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 
IMO, Good sound with extraordinary clarity =/ bright and fatiguing sound. I use my Yamaha HS7 speakers with my Bifrost and Schiit Saga Preamp in a near field setup aka 2.5 feet away from the speaker and I can tell you that the sound is incredibly crystal clear and neutral yet there is ZERO harshness or fatigue induced. Also, I listen to 90+ db in orchestral music without any fatigue at all.

 

[koretsky]

I listen to a lot of similar music, and I actually just got my HE400i's in about a week ago along with my Schiit stack. I definitely don't think you'll find them fatiguing. If anything, you might initially find their sound to be a bit "thin" due to the flat frequency response like I did when I settled in for my first listen, but I've grown to really enjoy their sound already. For hip hop especially, I would ensure that you have some fairly decent mp3 files, or FLACs ideally, because I find low bitrate hip hop on higher end equipment to be really fatiguing.
 
Unfortunately, I don't have my 650's in from Massdrop yet, so I can't comment on those based on my own personal experience. My best guess for you based on what you've said so far, would be for you to focus on choosing between the harsher, but maybe more interesting sonic character of the 650's, or the flatter, but less fatiguing 400i's. It really depends on what you value more between those.

 

[Monsterzero]

 My best guess for you based on what you've said so far, would be for you to focus on choosing between the harsher, but maybe more interesting sonic character of the 650's, or the flatter, but less fatiguing 400i's. It really depends on what you value more between those.

The HD650s are many things,but "harsh" is absolutely positively not one of their traits.

The issue is not the headphones.

 

[IronStolf]

Bass on HD650 is more punchy/mid-bassy while bass on HE400i is flatter, cleaner and more extended.
HE400i has more treble than HD650, that's why I wouldn't reccommend it to someone who find HD650 harsh.

Nighthawks on the other hand hand are softer than HD650 with cleaner and more extended bass.

Personal preferences are more important than what people consider upgrade/downgrade.

Differences among amplifiers are not that big, so if you want a different sound best you can do is find the right headphone.
The one that suits your preferences the best.

Thanks, I will look into them if either of the two headphones are not working for me(after returning one).

IMO, Good sound with extraordinary clarity =/ bright and fatiguing sound. I use my Yamaha HS7 speakers with my Bifrost and Schiit Saga Preamp in a near field setup aka 2.5 feet away from the speaker and I can tell you that the sound is incredibly crystal clear and neutral yet there is ZERO harshness or fatigue induced. Also, I listen to 90+ db in orchestral music without any fatigue at all.

Are you suggesting that the Modi2/Asgard2 is too clear causing harshness? Perhaps changing my DAC to a Bifrost would remedy my problem(though above my price range)? Thanks in advance for your response.

I listen to a lot of similar music, and I actually just got my HE400i's in about a week ago along with my Schiit stack. I definitely don't think you'll find them fatiguing. If anything, you might initially find their sound to be a bit "thin" due to the flat frequency response like I did when I settled in for my first listen, but I've grown to really enjoy their sound already. For hip hop especially, I would ensure that you have some fairly decent mp3 files, or FLACs ideally, because I find low bitrate hip hop on higher end equipment to be really fatiguing.

Unfortunately, I don't have my 650's in from Massdrop yet, so I can't comment on those based on my own personal experience. My best guess for you based on what you've said so far, would be for you to focus on choosing between the harsher, but maybe more interesting sonic character of the 650's, or the flatter, but less fatiguing 400i's. It really depends on what you value more between those.

Thanks for the input. I will definitely try the 400i's. They are coming in tomorrow and I doubt anyone on this forum would not unbox and give it a listen. I did hear great things about them, as I did the HD650's.

The HD650s are many things,but "harsh" is absolutely positively not one of their traits.


The issue is not the headphones.

I am more leaning towards this. It was sounding harsh even with the HD598SE's that I am quite familiar with. I do seem to be warming up to them the more I listen to them. I will research more on the amp burn in but the census hear seams more leaning towards getting accustomed to the sound as opposed to the amp getting better after time. The headphones are also very new and it seems most people do agree with the headphones needing a burn in period.

Ok, so your using Cyberlink PowerDVD for playing music audio files.
PowerDVD is loaded with lots of different settings, so one or two settings might not be set correctly.
Try Foobar2000, with WASAPI, a lot less fancy settings to deal with.

Before I return everything I will definitely give Foobar2000 a shot but I don't believe it is a software issue. After your comment I tried it on VLC, Media player, and MPC(software already on my PC). There were some very slight variations IMO but nothing drastic. I think PowerDVD was the cleanest, but very little difference.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Before I return everything I will definitely give Foobar2000 a shot but I don't believe it is a software issue. After your comment I tried it on VLC, Media player, and MPC(software already on my PC). There were some very slight variations IMO but nothing drastic. I think PowerDVD was the cleanest, but very little difference.

 
The WASAPI component installed with Foobar2000 keeps Windows from interfering with the audio stream.
Which I do not believe the other programs offer in their default installations.
 
Guess we can assume your connecting the the PC to the Modi 2 using USB?
 
Is the PC and Magni connected to the same power strip?
Might try connecting the Magni to a different power strip or wall socket, from the PC.

 

[theveterans]

 Are you suggesting that the Modi2/Asgard2 is too clear causing harshness? Perhaps changing my DAC to a Bifrost would remedy my problem(though above my price range)? Thanks in advance for your response.

 
Not at all. Asgard 2 is a warm amp (I own one) and perhaps would be the cure to the harshness that you're perceiving. I'm just pointing out that crystal clear sound should please you, not stab your ears.