[betula]

Anyone compared DS to Caldera Open/Closed?

I agree with what @Promee said. The choice comes down to preference and amplifier you have. Tungstens are probably the most difficult to drive headphones out there (if you want to maximise their potential) while the Caldera is averagely hard/easy to drive.
There are several comparisons already in this thread, but in a nutshell, I love both the Tungsten DS and Caldera. They both sound extremely natural and lifelike which is a rare treat amongst headphones. Within this nice and natural realm, the Tungsten has a larger soundstage and a softer overall sound. Caldera edges out the Tungsten in resolution and dynamics. Tungsten offers better value (sound quality for the price) but Caldera sound does feel a bit of a higher quality (weight, coherence, energy, dynamics). Caldera is built better, although Tungsten is fine too.
Caldera closed sounds a bit warmer and softer than Caldera open, I would only pick that if you can't use open backs. (I consider them to be the best closed backs though.)

 

[legend192]

How did SS fair in these impressions, or was only the DS listened to/talked about?

I believe the two tungstens I listened to were both the DS version.

 

[CinnamonToastCrunch]

Anyone compared DS to Caldera Open/Closed

I had a year of time with Tungsten and have tweaked the sound a lot with mods, grills, pads, and internal wiring changes. I’ve heard my Tungsten on a handful of DACS and Amps. I heard the Caldera on only a 1 or 2 high end chains. I think the Tungsten scale a little bit higher than the Caldera on higher chains (Rockna Wave Dream Siganture + Mass Kobo 465 / HM1 / AIC10).

I would be happy with either as my daily driver, as I am with Tungsten. They sound surprisingly similar except at lower volume (85db and below) the Caldera is probably more composed/balanced but when you begin going a little louder 85-98db Tungsten handles separation a lot better IMO. The only headphone I’ve heard sound better on a flagship chain is Susvara with the Rockna Signature and Mass Kobo 465. Even then the Tungsten DS has some strengths over the Susvara on that chain but the sound balance on that chain with Sus is damn near perfection if such a thing exists.

 

[legend192]

I agree with what @Promee said. The choice comes down to preference and amplifier you have. Tungstens are probably the most difficult to drive headphones out there (if you want to maximise their potential) while the Caldera is averagely hard/easy to drive.
There are several comparisons already in this thread, but in a nutshell, I love both the Tungsten DS and Caldera. They both sound extremely natural and lifelike which is a rare treat amongst headphones. Within this nice and natural realm, the Tungsten has a larger soundstage and a softer overall sound. Caldera edges out the Tungsten in resolution and dynamics. Tungsten offers better value (sound quality for the price) but Caldera sound does feel a bit of a higher quality (weight, coherence, energy, dynamics). Caldera is built better, although Tungsten is fine too.
Caldera closed sounds a bit warmer and softer than Caldera open, I would only pick that if you can't use open backs. (I consider them to be the best closed backs though.)

I believe the difficulty of the Tungstens to drive is somewhat exaggerated. Pretty much any decent amp can drive them fine, even something weak and cheap like a darkvoice. The issue is volume. Most difficult to drive headphones are difficult to drive because they require a lot of current. The Tungsten is not difficult to drive for that reason, but because of voltage. Most amps output 10 volts, though some output 20 volts. 10 volts is enough to get the Tungsten above 100 decibels, while 20 volts is enough to get it above 110 decibels. Because volume is logarithmic, the difference between 100 and 110 is massive, not just a 10% increase. But download a sound level check app and see how loud your music is. Most don't listen above 90 decibels ever. I listen to super loud rock and metal, and rarely get above 103 decibels. The point is just about any half decent amp can drive it fine, it just might be preferable to have one of the select few amps that put out 20 volts, at least if you listen super loud. Premium amps like the Bliss and Oor can do that. But even the $400 Topping A70 Pro can do it also. The DS is actually a little easier to drive than the SS (the volume is a little higher at a given voltage). All the more reason to go with the DS, unless saving the $500 is important, or you perfer the more v shaped tunning. More voltage isn't better, as long as you get it to the volume you want. The CFA3 is one of the few amps that output 30 volts (which only gets you from about 112 decibles to 115 decibles compared to 20 volts). Apart from the fact that these volume levels will quickly damage your hearing and so no one should be listening this loud, I talked to Goldensound at canjam and he perfers other amps, like the Bliss and HM1 (which only outputs 10 volts, and which he uses to listen to the Tungsten, which is one of his favorite headphones) to the CFA3. He thinks they are just better amps, desite the voltage difference. My point is, as long as your current amp can get it loud enough, and this is pretty easy to determine (based on its voltage and your listening volume), your current amp is probably fine for the Tungsten. If it can't, there are cheap amps you can get that will get it loud enough (the topping A70 pro or speaker amps for example). Here is a technical discussion from Goldensound on this:


https://forum.headphones.com/t/modhouse-tungsten-measurements-official-discussion/22645/36?u=resolve

 

[betula]

I believe the difficulty of the Tungstens to drive is somewhat exaggerated. Pretty much any decent amp can drive them fine, even something weak and cheap like a darkvoice. The issue is volume. Most difficult to drive headphones are difficult to drive because they require a lot of current. The Tungsten is not difficult to drive for that reason, but because of voltage. Most amps output 10 volts, though some output 20 volts. 10 volts is enough to get the Tungsten above 100 decibels, while 20 volts is enough to get it above 110 decibels. Because volume is logarithmic, the difference between 100 and 110 is massive, not just a 10% increase. But download a sound level check app and see how loud your music is. Most don't listen above 90 decibels ever. I listen to super loud rock and metal, and rarely get above 103 decibels. The point is just about any half decent amp can drive it fine, it just might be preferable to have one of the select few amps that put out 20 volts, at least if you listen super loud. Premium amps like the Bliss and Oor can do that. But even the $400 Topping A70 Pro can do it also. The DS is actually a little easier to drive than the SS (the volume is a little higher at a given voltage). All the more reason to go with the DS, unless saving the $500 is important, or you perfer the more v shaped tunning. More voltage isn't better, as long as you get it to the volume you want. The CFA3 is one of the few amps that output 30 volts (which only gets you from about 112 decibles to 115 decibles compared to 20 volts). Apart from the fact that these volume levels will quickly damage your hearing and so no one should be listening this loud, I talked to Goldensound at canjam and he perfers other amps, like the Bliss and HM1 (which only outputs 10 volts, and which he uses to listen to the Tungsten, which is one of his favorite headphones) to the CFA3. He thinks they are just better amps, desite the voltage difference. My point is, as long as your current amp can get it loud enough, and this is pretty easy to determine (based on its voltage and your listening volume), your current amp is probably fine for the Tungsten. If it can't, there are cheap amps you can get that will get it loud enough (the topping A70 pro or speaker amps for example). Here is a technical discussion from Goldensound on this:


https://forum.headphones.com/t/modhouse-tungsten-measurements-official-discussion/22645/36?u=resolve

I am aware of the technical background, but my experience with headphones and amps is that 'loudness' is by far not everything. Many amplifiers can drive the Susvara loud enough too, so 'technically speaking' those amps are just fine for the Susvara. Yet it sounds thin and lacks bass fullness of more serious amplifiers. Numbers are not everything, measurements can't replace your ears and there is a lot more going on with amp/headphone synergy than loudness. I also don't take everything seriously what youtubers say, although Goldensound is one of the 'more sane' ones.

 

[legend192]

I am aware of the technical background, but my experience with headphones and amps is that 'loudness' is by far not everything. Many amplifiers can drive the Susvara loud enough too, so 'technically speaking' those amps are just fine for the Susvara. Yet it sounds thin and lacks bass fullness of more serious amplifiers. Numbers are not everything, measurements can't replace your ears and there is a lot more going on with amp/headphone synergy than loudness. I also don't take everything seriously what youtubers say, although Goldensound is one of the 'more sane' ones.

What makes headphones like Susvara difficult to drive is current, while the issue with Tungsten is not current but voltage.

From ChatGPT:

• Voltage directly affects the volume, making it the primary factor.
• Current influences how well the drivers can handle that volume, especially at low frequencies (bass) and higher power levels, ensuring clarity and avoiding distortion.

Since Susvara's issue is current, loudness is not the problem, but insufficient current that will cause the issues you described, thinness and lack of bass, even at a good volume. Tungsten isn't demanding with current, only voltage, so loudness is the primary issue with it. As long as you can get it loud enough, you should be fine, and shouldn't have issues with fullness or bass. That isn't to say any amp that can get it loud enough is fine. If you don't like an amp with other headphones, you probably won't like it with Tungsten, even if it gets it loud enough. But an amp you like for other headphones should be fine with Tungsten as long as you can get it loud enough. What I am saying here is the same Goldensound has said here and elsewhere, including on that article I just linked to.

 

[atomLI631]

I have a Tungsten SS on order (June batch) and Im having a case of FOMO with the DS version. It seems most people who have heard both alway seem to prefer the DS version. Being primarily a rock/metal listener (also love hip-hop) I do prefer a mild V-shaped tuning. I have only heard the SS version and I loved what I heard...but Im considering seeing if I can change my order to a DS version.

My other main headphones are LCD-X (with EQ), Zerite Open and HD800s. I also recently picked up a set of HE6se V2s which I am quite enjoying.

Any other metal listeners who have heard both? If so, what are you impression and is it worth it for me to change my order? Will be using the Tungsten with Bifrost 2/64 -> V281 stack.

 

[staticosaur]

One here, but have not heard them. Thought I will not order without audition, but 6 hours after the time slot opened yesterday, one could still buy. So I ended ordering SS. I primarily listen to metal. Currently using LCD-X 2020 with Audio-GD D28.38.

 

[legend192]

I have a Tungsten SS on order (June batch) and Im having a case of FOMO with the DS version. It seems most people who have heard both alway seem to prefer the DS version. Being primarily a rock/metal listener (also love hip-hop) I do prefer a mild V-shaped tuning. I have only heard the SS version and I loved what I heard...but Im considering seeing if I can change my order to a DS version.

My other main headphones are LCD-X (with EQ), Zerite Open and HD800s. I also recently picked up a set of HE6se V2s which I am quite enjoying.

Any other metal listeners who have heard both? If so, what are you impression and is it worth it for me to change my order? Will be using the Tungsten with Bifrost 2/64 -> V281 stack.

I listen to mostly rock and metal. I would recommend changing it to the DS if you can. I also have a Vertie Open (I'm guessing that is what you meant) and it is great with rock and metal because it has a more neutral tuning. I'm not really sure why people gravitate often to v shaped tuning. Certain genres I can see the benefit for, like hip hop or EDM. But for rock and metal, I've noticed v shaped tuning means you just have excess bass relative to the mids, which blunts the clarity, and the excess treble that can make it too bright at times. Every headphone I have is more neutral tuning for that reason. The DS should also have better control, which should make a difference when it comes to more aggressive rock and metal. Plus the DS is a bit easier to drive than the SS. I just put in an order for a DS Tungsten.

 

[staticosaur]

Does anyone have a FR curve for SS? I am quite sure it is far from V shaped, based on reviews from people who have heard both. They emphasize the differences between SS and DS are small and often prefer SS in various songs.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/mod-house-tungsten.26823/reviews

 

[legend192]

Does anyone have a FR curve for SS? I am quite sure it is far from V shaped, based on reviews from people who have heard both. They emphasize the differences between SS and DS are small and often prefer SS in various songs.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/mod-house-tungsten.26823/reviews

Yes SS it is not "v shaped" in an absolute sense, just relative to the DS. The DS is marginally better than the SS since it has better control, but the difference is slight, though at this price level you are paying for slight improvements. Go with the SS if your budget requires it or you don't really care about small differences. Go with DS if you want to get the best. Sure SS may sound better on some music to some people, but unless your focus is certain genres where the more V shaped tuning is a benefit, like hip hop or EDM, DS will be better overall. But if you don't notice slight differences, go with the cheaper option.

 

[atomLI631]

I listen to mostly rock and metal. I would recommend changing it to the DS if you can. I also have a Vertie Open (I'm guessing that is what you meant) and it is great with rock and metal because it has a more neutral tuning. I'm not really sure why people gravitate often to v shaped tuning. Certain genres I can see the benefit for, like hip hop or EDM. But for rock and metal, I've noticed v shaped tuning means you just have excess bass relative to the mids, which blunts the clarity, and the excess treble that can make it too bright at times. Every headphone I have is more neutral tuning for that reason. The DS should also have better control, which should make a difference when it comes to more aggressive rock and metal. Plus the DS is a bit easier to drive than the SS. I just put in an order for a DS Tungsten.

lol. yes, mean the Verite Open. Also, I should clarify that I really prefer a U-shaped tuning. I really enjoy emphasized bass to really bring out the kick and snare drums and double bass. I want my blast beats sounding good! I also enjoy slightly elevated treble to really hear cymbals. But I don't necessarily want any of that at the expense of vocals. I would say something I care least about is soundstage. I have the HD800s for that (and the VO is pretty amazing at it also).

 

[ThanatosVI]

Best news of the day, my Tungsten just shipped!

 

[peppy]

Best news of the day, my Tungsten just shipped!

Out of curiosity, when did you order?

 

[invisiblekid]

Best news of the day, my Tungsten just shipped!

Would be interested in your thoughts. As I said, they are so different to any other headphone I have and it's slightly thrown me. But I absolutely love them.