[mhcarlos]

It's my second day with the Ming Da MC 84C07 to drive my K701s (also relatively new, but burned-in for over 120 hours).
 
The first afternoon of listening when I just unpacked the Ming Da, warmed it up and simply connected my iPod (5th generation) via the Cardas mini-to-mini that I was using with my SR-71.
 
The sound was quite... different. It seemed fuller and the bass was there. But it's not quite what I expected and I'm not liking it yet. I'm not sure if the amp needs burn-in (I'm honestly not sure if burn-in applies to electronic parts, but I'm relatively a newbie...). 
 
For a quick replacement of the mini-to-mini connection, I dropped by a Radio Shack and picked up an iPod dock line-out cable by Gigaware:
 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3839350
 
It actually improved the sound.
 
First question: Is this line-out cable actually good enough or should I take the pain of ordering online something better? Like a Sendstation Pocketdock?
 
Second question: What else do I need to do or to buy to improve my experience with the Ming Da + K701 combination? The following things came to mind but I'm not sure about the relative importance of each:
 
1. amp burn-in -- Really? Does this make a difference?
2. better line-out -- Again, not sure of this one...
3. DAC -- Is the D10 ok, or should I get a desktop one?
4. upgrade my AACs to Apple Lossless/get a better source
 
Thanks in advance. Will really appreciate any advice...

 

[cravenz]

Quote:

 
For a quick replacement of the mini-to-mini connection, I dropped by a Radio Shack and picked up an iPod dock line-out cable by Gigaware:
 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3839350
 
It actually improved the sound.
 
First question: Is this line-out cable actually good enough or should I take the pain of ordering online something better? Like a Sendstation Pocketdock? It's what you believe on this, to be honest, I don't think cables make a huge difference, if they do, I think it is more important that you fix other issues in the chain, e.g. DAC before the cable, though if anything, I would look for a shorter cable. For safety, I usually go for the materials that I know are decent, but avoid paying over the top with established companies. E.g. if I do recall correctly, people have compared monster cables to standard cables with the similar materials, but a different brand, or even found Monster cables to not have much difference to competing brands less than 50% of the price.
 
Second question: What else do I need to do or to buy to improve my experience with the Ming Da + K701 combination? The following things came to mind but I'm not sure about the relative importance of each:
 
1. amp burn-in -- Really? Does this make a difference? I believe that it helps to burn it in a little, but I can't quantify this and this has always been a topic of debate. I always just say that it takes time for a new shoe to remold itself to our feet and for it to get comfy, but at the end of the day, it is largely the same shoe anyway. A book left on the side for a while, all it needs is a good wipe, etc. With a driver, it may be different, but hey. It's meant to sound decent from stock, that's my belief.
2. better line-out -- Again, not sure of this one... answered above. I think the difference is mainly from switching from the mini to the line out.
3. DAC -- Is the D10 ok, or should I get a desktop one? Until I get to sample a proper desktop DAC, then I can comment, the D10 will suffice as a DAC, but I'd recommend getting a better one on the basis that it is your home rig. It is better to run it through a power source for different reasons, but I just look to the practicality of it.
4. upgrade my AACs to Apple Lossless/get a better source the differences between the top AAC bit rate and lossless is hard to discern if any at all. I have trouble doing it myself, maybe with a better DAC I could, but not at this current moment, but if you enjoy what you hear already...no reason to change. But I've started to keep lossless for piece of mind. What I would do is re-rip your CDs into lossless, don't upgrade your AAC file to a lossless cos' you really get the same file, but with a larger size, not practical.
 
Thanks in advance. Will really appreciate any advice...

 

 

[mhcarlos]

Thanks cravenz!
 
1. amp burn-in -- I guess that will take time. It doesn't seem like I can leave tubes unattended at home while I'm at work. Those things run hot...
 
2. mini to line-out -- I'm surprised that it made a big difference. I was supposed to order something online but got impatient so I visited Guitar Center close to Union Square. They didn't have it but a guy pointed me to Radio Shack just a block and corner away.
 
3. DAC -- boy, this is getting more and more expensive...
 
4. I will actually investigate how to re-rip. I think I remember inserting some old CDs once and seeing the option to re-rip. Now that you mention the top AAC bit rate, I'm tempted to just go with that. I'm running low on disk space and I don't want to use external drives. Will see...

 

[Dojomoto]

 I think you should try the ming da without using the computer for test purposes and see how you feel about the sound of the amp. If it still sounds weak or whatever you feel it is lacking, then you know its truly the amp itself and nothing else in the chain, such as iTunes, the OS kernal or DAC or whatever.
 Also, I give the benefit of the doubt to burn in changes in the sound signatures of new equipment, as too many folks here whose opinion I trust swear by it. There is also the factor of the tubes themselves needing burning in, as well as the components of the amp so just give it a chance and let it get some hours playing music if you can. At least you can rule that out as a factor if nothing else.

 

[SP Wild]

My experiences with the MingDa was much like yours - I was gonna bin it - the sound was way off - too forward, and too euphonic.  I didn't expect too much from 300 dollars and China.
 
It wasn't until after four months of consistent use with the HD650 - when they settled perfectly with the K701.  The burn-in was dramatic in my case.  I am a firm believer in tube burn in.  And the incredible value of the Ming Da - I will soon fit the best valves money can buy and see how much improvement I will get.
 
The K701 has a midrange flaw.  The MD before burn-in smoothed out but exasperated that midrange flaw.  After burn-in the amp managed to seize the upper mid flaw, control the lower treble spike, expand the center mids and give a healthy dose to the midbass impact.  What I was left with, was a very neutral and balanced headphone - with amazing musicality.  Once again, no other amp in my 5 amp inventory can achieve this with my K701's.  The HD650 also works remarkably well with this amp.
 
You heard a difference?  that's a good start!

 

[Spareribs]

I use the Ming Da for my bedroom amp and personally, I think it sounds great with the K701 headphone. If the amp is not to your liking you may have to try a different one or it's a possiblity that the K701 is not your ideal headphone. I love the K701 but some people find it to be thin or hollow to thier ears.



We all hear differently and it's also possible that tubes are not your preference. Lastly there are some audiophiles who feel that tube amps don't sound good unless if they cost at least $1000 and in some ways I kind of agree even though I have had enjoyment with the budget models.

 

[SP Wild]

IME, tubes can't be beat for string (guitar, violin) and wind instrument (sax, flute), voices and staging / imaging.
 
Solid state is better for piano, percussion (drums) and instruments activated by a physical impact (triangles, bells).
 
Overall - I believe tubes recreate the "artists tuneful intent" best and sound more musical doing so.  Instruments are a means to construct a tune - the tune can be interrupted by the inadequacy of the instrument or the instrument operator.  Hence IMO - recreating the tune is not secondary to recreating the instrument.

 

[SP Wild]

On second thought - mid level cans (650,701,880 etc) aren't even agile enough to exploit the transient capabilities of a well engineered solid state product.  I am starting to believe that one needs to move up to the next level of can engineering before realising the transient response advantages of solid state.

 

[mhcarlos]

@Dojomoto - Thanks. since yesterday, I'm actually just using my iPod (line-out) as the source. Also, it's not weak at all! The volume control is close to minimum. Will give burn-in a try...
 

@SP Wild - Thanks. Your posts and advice in the other threads were actually part of the reason why I ordered the Ming Da. BTW, I caved and ordered an M-Stage also and hopefully it arrives next week, so I can compare Tubes to SS. My only SS amp is the SR-71, which I still love. 
 
I did hear a difference, sure. What I did notice yesterday is that I like it for female vocals. For any classical music though, I still seem to prefer my Etys straight out of my iPod or through the SR-71.
 
 
@Spareribs - I'm actually open to that possibility as well. I've only done 130+ hours of burn-in on the K701. I heard you need 300 hours? I don't know yet. Right now, I still prefer my Etys over the K701 for transparency and a more natural sound. It would be a shame if I ended up not liking the K701 in the end,as I would probably get rid of it along with the Ming Da (which I bought specifically for the K701). 
 
I'm not deep enough into the hobby to spend over $1000 on a tube amp though...

 
Quote:

IME, tubes can't be beat for string (guitar, violin) and wind instrument (sax, flute), voices and staging / imaging.
 
Solid state is better for piano, percussion (drums) and instruments activated by a physical impact (triangles, bells).
 
Overall - I believe tubes recreate the "artists tuneful intent" best and sound more musical doing so.  Instruments are a means to construct a tune - the tune can be interrupted by the inadequacy of the instrument or the instrument operator.  Hence IMO - recreating the tune is not secondary to recreating the instrument.

I'll try to find out if this is the same for me, but maybe I won't really hear it until my Ming Da and K701 have the same amount of usage as yours?
 
However, I'm ambivalent to neutrality versus tubes or other components adding to the sound. I think I still have to discover what I like...
 
Quote:

On second thought - mid level cans (650,701,880 etc) aren't even agile enough to exploit the transient capabilities of a well engineered solid state product.  I am starting to believe that one needs to move up to the next level of can engineering before realising the transient response advantages of solid state.

What does "agile" mean in the case pf headphones?

 

[SP Wild]

Looking forward to your comparisons with the matrix and MD - we can compare notes.
 
I never got the whole transient, speed, agility concept until I paid particular attention to piano notes and ride cymbals with my D7000 hooked up to the BCL.

 

[mhcarlos]

Yup, I'm quite excited with getting the M-stage also to compare. 
 
I really want them to sound good out of the box instead of three months later though. I remember burning in my SR-71 and Porta Corda. I don't think it changed at all (though I like both of them).
 
 
Off-topic: Is there a reference for audio-related terms in the site?
 
I have a tough time understanding a lot of those everyday adjectives that are used in the audio sense on this site -- "agility" is one of them. I get what "transparent" means (and I think "muddy" and "bloated" also). But "bright", "blackness", "sparkling" -- visual words used in an aural sense... Reminds me of perfume hobbyists describing their scents (I was also into scents for a short time).
 
Also, "bass amount" seems common sense enough, but I don't know what "bass extension", etc.

 

[SP Wild]

Just in case you think you've been had, I assure you this is a quality sounding unit.  Here is a post where our Skylab ranks his tube amps.  As you can see, high praises for the MingDa.
 
Agility is the driver's ability to accelerate from rest to extension and back again - like how quickly a subwoofer is controlled in it's vibration.  Bright is a lot of treble amount, dark is the opposite, sparkling is a word used with another to make it sound good.  The K701 has excellent bass extension in that it goes low, but not much bass amount as what it does have isn't really loud.

 

[mhcarlos]

Ok. Thanks for the explanation and the assurance. (And no, I don't think I've been had...) I've seen the skylab review also, and that's also part of the reason why I got the amp. But then I had a feeling that I would want to compare with a solid-state desktop amp in the future, so I went ahead and bought the M-Stage.
 
I hope both amps work out actually...

 

[Dojomoto]

mhcarlos: try this thread for a list of terms used often here at Head-fi - http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/81757/list-of-terms-and-abbreviations-final
 
mhcarlos said: "Off-topic: Is there a reference for audio-related terms in the site? "
 
Actually that is not what I was looking for ... let me see if I can find the one I intended to link lol !

 

[Dojomoto]

Woot ! Here we go! Try this thread for terms used to describe headphone listening:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
 
Good stuff there !