Millett "Starving Student" hybrid amp
Jan 7, 2016 at 6:41 PM Post #6,961 of 7,277
So I'm making the 19j6 variant (actually 2 of them) and I'm wondering how this variant: http://www.diyforums.org/SSMH/schematic/SSMH-origPCB.gif is different from the original Pete Millet design I haven't found any clear answers. I'm trying to figure out which one would deliver the most current. Or if there is an alternate configuration that would give me better results.


Think maybe the yellow highlighting means something?

The strike-outs look suspicious, too.

BTW, changing any of the passive devices is not going to increase the current. Besides, the MOSFETs are biased by the tube heaters. You're not going to find another amp in this category with more current capability.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 8:33 AM Post #6,963 of 7,277
I understand that it's optional, but i'm wondering what those options accomplish? More power, less noise, etc... 
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 9:51 AM Post #6,964 of 7,277
  I understand that it's optional, but i'm wondering what those options accomplish? More power, less noise, etc... 

 
You keep focusing on power (or current), but that is all determined by the basic circuit and power supply of an amplifier design.  You can't buy or build an amplifier and drop a bigger engine into it.  The "engine" is the amplifier design itself.  Carrying the analogy to its logical extreme, if you had an amplifier enclosure, you could drop another amplifier assembly into that enclosure and get more power, but it would be a completely different amplifier in the same skin.
 
As for the schematic, the answer to your question is less noise, less distortion, better frequency response, and more convenient usability.  It all depends on which parts you're talking about.  Keep in mind that Pete Millett's principle in designing this amplifier was for a Starving Student.  As Pete put it in terms of Starving Student costs, "about two delivery pizzas and drinks."
 
When Dsavitsk (of ECP Audio) designed the PCB version of the Starving Student Millett Hybrid, he chose to add some additional parts that made improvements (some significant) with a minimum of cost.  Keep in mind that once you design a PCB, you're already increasing the cost significantly from the original.  Likewise, design that PCB to fit into a custom-made case, you increase the cost even more.  The comparison of the added parts becomes insignificant.  To understand the perspective, however, realize that Pete's version was absolutely the lowest cost possible - similar in concept to a Tube CMoy.  There was no case - you had to come up with it on your own.  This led to many creative concepts in the early days of DIY-er's constructing the Starving Student.  Nevertheless, casework often represents fully half the cost of building an amplifier.  It also involves a completely different skill set than populating a PCB by soldering - often compared to a paint-by-number painting you might purchase in an arts and crafts store.
 
So, keep in mind that the goals between Pete's original design and the SSMH PCB are slightly different.  The goal in the SSMH PCB was to reach more of the masses by greatly simplifying the construction in providing a PCB and a custom-made case.  This makes assembly a piece of cake by comparison to Pete's original design, but it necessarily increases the cost.  The SSMH PCB version is currently $150 at Beezar.com, whereas Pete's original Bill Of Materials (BOM) totaled about $36.
 
One complicating factor to this is that due to the overwhelming popularity that Pete's design caused, the tube prices of the 19J6 increased radically.  Today, you will find 19J6 tested and matched pairs for as much as $49.95 on ebay.  When Pete first made the design available, these tubes cost about $2 each.  So just the tube costs alone have far exceeded Pete's total Bill Of Materials for the design.
 
Anyway, with all of that background, here are the reasons for the parts we added in the schematic you referenced from www.diyforums.org/SSMH/SSMHschematic.php :
 
Strike-Through Parts
  1. C1, C6 - These are the classic "power" caps in most amplifier circuit designs.  While replacing these do not increase power, they lower the impedance of the power supply ahead of the amplification circuit and provide more ripple removal.  In other words, upsizing these caps will have a good result in increasing the availability of current in the circuit and decreasing noise.  They were up-sized to 680uf to make use of the Dsavitsk-PCB and Beezar-custom-case space.  The 63V rating was considered the safest (with an ample safety factor) for the 48V power supply (Cisco VoIP power adapter).
  2. C2, C4 - These are the interstage capacitors that AC-couple the tube output to the MOSFET buffer.  Simply put, if these caps are not sized large enough, you may lose some bass response.  This is also related to the amplifier's output coupling caps.  More on that next.
  3. C3, C5 - These are the primary output coupling caps for the Starving Student.  Any output coupling capacitor on a headphone amplifier will combine with the impedance of the connected headphones to form an RC circuit.  This type of circuit forms a bandpass filter, meaning some frequencies are filtered out.  In this case, if the value of RC is not high enough, audible bass will be filtered out.  Pete originally specified 150uf capacitors to keep costs down.  However, this results in -3dB at 33Hz for a 32 ohm headphone.  Actual bass begins dropping at much higher frequencies than that.  Up-sizing these capacitors to 470uf means the cutoff frequency is down to 10.5 Hz.  That still has some audible drop above 20Hz, but not enough for most headphones.  Once these capacitors were up-sized, it made sense to also up-size C2 and C4 above to ensure that these did not cut out any bass frequencies, too.
 
Yellow-Highlighted Parts
  1. C3a, C5a - Common practice, especially with many of Pete's designs (such as the original Millett Hybrid in AudioXpress magazine) is to use bypass film capacitors with electrolytics, particularly in the signal path.  The reason for this is that electrolytic capacitors do not sound well with high-frequencies and can add distortion.  Bypassing with a small film cap allows the film cap to actually pass those frequencies, instead.  Keep in mind that this part is mostly empirical and listening preference, but it will make things sound better than just the electrolytic itself.  This can be mitigated further by use of true, audiophile-quality grade electrolytics, too (Black Gates, Muse ES, FG, KZ, Elna Cerfine, Silmics, etc.).
  2. C7, C8 - without going into the specifics of the design with cathode bypass tube circuits, use of this capacitor can also increase the bass frequencies around the tube.  Again, a small tweak that may or may not cause much of an audible difference, but on paper - very little cost for some gain.
  3. R14, R15 - these are normally referred to as grid stop resistors.  In some cases, they can lower distortion in tubes and ensure that the tube does not oscillate.  They can also cut down on outside interference that tubes can sometimes pick up.  It can be argued that none of that is a concern in this amp, but in this case - very little downside to adding these resistors for only pennies.
  4. R16, R17 - These resistors were specifically suggested by Dsavitsk and can vary in 50K increments - 50K, 100K, 150K, etc.  The reason for these resistors is again - "Starving Student."  One of the most expensive components of an amplifier can be the volume control.  In this case, an inexpensive Alpha stereo volume pot (RV1) is specified in the BOM.  Unfortunately, cheaper volume control pots are sometimes not well matched at lower volume knob travel (9 o'clock and below).  Because the 19J6 tubes already have a pretty high gain compared to most headphones, it means that without correction, most of your listening may be in the 9 o'clock positions and below.  These resistors (must be coordinated with your particular headphone's sensitivity) "push" the volume range further into the mid-travel of the pot's rotation.  The idea is to use the best increment of 50K that results in comfortable listening levels around the 12 o'clock position of the volume pot.
 
This is the reason you didn't get much response the first few times because you were not asking a simple question with a simple answer.  Hopefully, this covers it.  If not, there's not a whole lot more that I've got.
wink.gif
 
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 10:14 AM Post #6,965 of 7,277
Interesting, is there any reason that the c3 and c5 need to be rated for 63v I see that there are KZ caps that are 470uF but are only rated for 50v, would those be fine since that line should only be 19v max anyway?
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM Post #6,966 of 7,277
  Interesting, is there any reason that the c3 and c5 need to be rated for 63v I see that there are KZ caps that are 470uF but are only rated for 50v, would those be fine since that line should only be 19v max anyway?

 
You're welcome.
mad.gif

 
If the MOSFET shorts, you'll have 48V to ground at the output.  I'm not going into any more details again (ever?), but if you read this thread, you'll find that shorting out the MOSFETs is a common occurrence.  If you feel comfortable with 2V headroom - a 4% safety factor - for your headphones, go ahead.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 11:21 AM Post #6,967 of 7,277
Sorry I appreciate the time you took to explain everything I'm at work and doing a few things at once and didn't even realize how that post came off. I'm generally very to the point which comes off as rude at times I'm more used to irc where there is a continuous conversation I have to get back into delayed read forum posting mentality. I do thank you for the help in understanding this. It looks like all of the audiophile quality caps are under 50v (edit: just found some FG's at 100v), does it matter if the cap is larger than 470uF? I'm essentially trying to make an over-built one, it doesn't really need to fit on a pcb or within a certain container, so space isn't a concern for me. I'm just trying to find a way to make it as good as it can be.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 11:37 AM Post #6,968 of 7,277
This is still a great sounding amp  and glad to see people are still building them :)
 
I would have no problem going larger than 470uF if the increased resistance doesn't pose any issue.
 
I think more important is making sure you pick a good cap with a low SNR. With this design you would probably see more benefit adding decoupling capacitors to the design to reduce noise.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 11:45 AM Post #6,969 of 7,277
Hmm I'll have to take that into consideration but I think I'm set as I found some FG series 470uf caps to use for that part I'm also going to implement a few of the other optional components, I do think I'm going to use 1000uf instead of 680uf for the power caps since I can get those in FG as well, unless it doesn't make sense to use those there. I was planning on putting this together on this: https://www.radioshack.com/collections/connectors-connectivity/products/universal-component-pc-board?variant=5717555141 Unless there is a reason to avoid using one of these? I'm actually going to be making two so I think I'll leave one at the original (or close to original) design and make the second one have all of the changes.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 12:13 PM Post #6,970 of 7,277
  Hmm I'll have to take that into consideration but I think I'm set as I found some FG series 470uf caps to use for that part I'm also going to implement a few of the other optional components, I do think I'm going to use 1000uf instead of 680uf for the power caps since I can get those in FG as well, unless it doesn't make sense to use those there. I was planning on putting this together on this: https://www.radioshack.com/collections/connectors-connectivity/products/universal-component-pc-board?variant=5717555141 Unless there is a reason to avoid using one of these? I'm actually going to be making two so I think I'll leave one at the original (or close to original) design and make the second one have all of the changes.

There is nothing wrong with using 1000uf, either on the power caps or the output coupling caps.  I would highly recommend the film bypasses on the output, however.  Wima MKP10's are usually the standard.
 
As for the board you referenced, I think you'll find the parts are too large on the SSMH for that to be of any use.  Yeah, the Dsavitsk PCB is not much bigger than that, but that's an optimized PCB layout.  Things are a lot different when you start working with real leads and wiring with a point-to-point construction.  You need to study the pics in first few posts in this thread (Pete's and Nate Maher's) and Pete's website: http://pmillett.com/starving.htm .  The biggest thing you need to worry about with a point-to-point layout is grounding.  Some use a star ground, ensuring that every ground is taken back to a common point and then grounding that.  Or, you can look at what Pete used - a copper plate and built everything around that.  A PCB (a good one) incorporates a ground plane integral with the PCB.  Neither point-to-point or the Radio Shack board you referenced has that - you have to make it happen.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 12:17 PM Post #6,971 of 7,277
You also can't skimp on the heat sinks in this design.  Those tube heaters mean the MOSFETs are biased into Class A with 150ma.  That's significant and will require huge heat sinks.  You can't get that on the Radio Shack perf board.  If you use a metal case and properly plan it, you should be able to use heat sinks and grounding all in the case.  Note, however, that's one of the reasons it's very easy to short the MOSFETs in this design.  Be certain you use insulating washers on the MOSFET mountings.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 12:21 PM Post #6,972 of 7,277
One final thing - Pete gave plenty of warning about the MOSFET gate resistor - R3 and R9.  If you don't get these very close to the MOSFET itself, they will oscillate.  So, if you mount the heat sinks and MOSFETs on the case away from the rest of the circuit (a common practice when trying to heat sink and ground at the same time), you need to carry those resistors with the MOSFETs, not down on the rest of the circuit with a big separation distance between MOSFET and resistor.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM Post #6,973 of 7,277
Those are definitely things I'll keep in mind what I was planning on doing was using the metal top plate for one of the radio-shack kit boxes and having the heatsinks outside of the box: http://imgur.com/WGuQFAn and mounting everything to that plate, the perf board was mainly just going to be for holding caps/resistors that weren't attaching directly to any other components like audio jacks or tubes I may or may not keep that idea. Thanks for the tip with the r3 and r9 resistors I had built one of these a while ago that had a lot of issues and was therefor not used and lost. Now while I know the mosfet gets hot but is there any concern with using heatshrink on the leads out of the mosfet after the wire is attached?
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 12:41 PM Post #6,974 of 7,277
  Those are definitely things I'll keep in mind what I was planning on doing was using the metal top plate for one of the radio-shack kit boxes and having the heatsinks outside of the box: http://imgur.com/WGuQFAn and mounting everything to that plate, the perf board was mainly just going to be for holding caps/resistors that weren't attaching directly to any other components like audio jacks or tubes I may or may not keep that idea. Thanks for the tip with the r3 and r9 resistors I had built one of these a while ago that had a lot of issues and was therefor not used and lost. Now while I know the mosfet gets hot but is there any concern with using heatshrink on the leads out of the mosfet after the wire is attached?

Non concern about heat-shrink - it's a great practice to do all of the time, anyway.  If the heat sinks are doing their business, the wires won't get hot, anyway.
 
I still think the perf board is just going to get in your way.  For what you need, you should really use a few of these:
 https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-5-position-terminal-strip?variant=5717454853 .  Again, that's why I referenced Pete's and Nate's photos in the first posts of this thread.  Study those pics.  There are reasons why they built them that way, all the way to using grommets around the holes for the MOSFET mounting.  Those terminal strips are certainly self-evident in both of their builds.
 
I could be wrong, though - maybe you should work out a layout drawing to scale, using the all the part dimensions, and see if  you can make it work on that perfboard.  If so, have at it.
 
Jan 8, 2016 at 1:06 PM Post #6,975 of 7,277
The one thing I was wondering is if I used an all plastic box then just used the perf board as the the central grounding point would that be bad? I basically bought one of these and it has a metal top and a plastic top I was back and forth about how to do grounding thinking that it might be better to mount to plastic and then have the grounds all go to the perf board. I guess It's something I can always re-work if it doesn't work out well.
 

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