Millett "Starving Student" hybrid amp
post-6352266
Post #4,561 of 7,249

the_equalizer

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
68
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Posts
1,138
Likes
68
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I can only see this on my BBerry right now, but if that Beezar link goes to the Muse ES 1000uf 16V - remember that we want a 63V rating for the power and output caps in the SSMH.



My bad!
Indeed, that one looks nice... except that it needs to be rated for 63 V


cheers!
 
     Share This Post       
post-6352785
Post #4,562 of 7,249

loki993

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
524
Reaction score
111
Location
Michigan
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Michigan
Posts
524
Likes
111
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I can only see this on my BBerry right now, but if that Beezar link goes to the Muse ES 1000uf 16V - remember that we want a 63V rating for the power and output caps in the SSMH.


There is a very nice cap that's newly available at Handmade Electronics that would be interesting to try at the output - a Muse Fine Gold (FG) at 470uf, 63V - only 25mm high, too.

We're still using the Nichicon KW's in the kit, but it might be a decent option if someone is interested. Remember though, that bypassing with the Wima's tends to level things out with many electrolytics. The improvement would be very subtle, if at all noticeable.



So Leave the Wimas out if someone was to use them? Or dont worry so much about the caps. Is there another one that can be used that doesn't smooth everything out as much, even though as I would imagine this is probably the primary reason for having a bypass to begin with. I heard early on that people were using the Vitamin Q caps for these, correct? how are they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_equalizer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My bad!
Indeed, that one looks nice... except that it needs to be rated for 63 V


cheers!



Yeah I did a little research and it seems that the Muse ES dont come in 63v, the highest they have are 1000uF 50v oh well. I got a bit excited about them because that said they have excellent bass slam, I'm a bit of basshead, hence the DT770 pros.

The description of the ES on the Beezar site of them is very good though. Is there anywhere else that kinda explains how different caps sound and things like that?

I was in fact looking at the diyforums BOM, I'm also assuming this is the one that TomB is using for the kits also, because he posted it at sometime, and was thinking about following that pretty closely. Probably going with bigger caps, just becasue. Depends on what I decide to do about a case.
 
     Share This Post       
post-6354776
Post #4,563 of 7,249

tomb

Member of the Trade: Beezar.com
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
10,322
Reaction score
619
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
10,322
Likes
619
Quote:

Originally Posted by loki993 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So Leave the Wimas out if someone was to use them? Or dont worry so much about the caps. Is there another one that can be used that doesn't smooth everything out as much, even though as I would imagine this is probably the primary reason for having a bypass to begin with. I heard early on that people were using the Vitamin Q caps for these, correct? how are they?


"Smooth" was not the word I used.
Bypassing electrolytics in the audio signal path is done to provide better high-frequency response. When one concludes that bigger electrolytic caps are better, there is a caveat - the bigger caps are slower. So, you may gain bass but lose detail. This may happen even if you use a minimally-sized electrolytic by itself. Actually, you want a majority of the music signal to go through the film cap, given a choice, but there are diminishing returns there as well. Bypassing in the signal path does not follow prescribed rules - it's all trial and error: some combinations work well, others may not.

Generally speaking, using 0.1uf or 0.22uf Wima MKP's for bypassing has a long history of successful results in the Millett Hybrid heritage. We tried them for the Starving Student long ago (probably rds who did it first) and they worked well, so they became part of the design for the SSMH PCB. VitaminQ's are probably a better choice, but there are tradeoffs in size, bass response, and a bit of detail. It would be very difficult to get them to fit on the PCB and in the custom Beezer/Hammond case, for instance.

At any rate, a great deal of the higher audio frequencies - the kind you regularly resolve into details with your ears - go through the film cap bypasses anyway, so the electrolytic only has effect in the lower frequencies. Sort of.
As I said, when bypassing, strict rules don't always apply. At any rate, "leveling out the differences with electrolytic boutique options" was a very general statement and was not meant at all to mean that it "smoothed everything out."



Quote:

Yeah I did a little research and it seems that the Muse ES dont come in 63v, the highest they have are 1000uF 50v oh well. I got a bit excited about them because that said they have excellent bass slam, I'm a bit of basshead, hence the DT770 pros.

The description of the ES on the Beezar site of them is very good though. Is there anywhere else that kinda explains how different caps sound and things like that?


Dsavitsk's (the SSMH PCB designer) own website is one of the best sources on the net for this:
Notes on Output Coupling Capacitors
There is also another that's not quite as good in scoring, etc., but still useful:
Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test
Quote:


I was in fact looking at the diyforums BOM, I'm also assuming this is the one that TomB is using for the kits also, because he posted it at sometime, and was thinking about following that pretty closely. Probably going with bigger caps, just becasue. Depends on what I decide to do about a case.


Yes - Beezar/DIYForums/TomB - we're all the same person.
The kits are all packaged with a printout of that BOM - that's all you need to populate the PCB, along with the paint-by-numbers silkscreen.
 
     Share This Post       
post-6356150
Post #4,564 of 7,249

loki993

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
524
Reaction score
111
Location
Michigan
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Michigan
Posts
524
Likes
111
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"Smooth" was not the word I used.
Bypassing electrolytics in the audio signal path is done to provide better high-frequency response. When one concludes that bigger electrolytic caps are better, there is a caveat - the bigger caps are slower. So, you may gain bass but lose detail. This may happen even if you use a minimally-sized electrolytic by itself. Actually, you want a majority of the music signal to go through the film cap, given a choice, but there are diminishing returns there as well. Bypassing in the signal path does not follow prescribed rules - it's all trial and error: some combinations work well, others may not.

Generally speaking, using 0.1uf or 0.22uf Wima MKP's for bypassing has a long history of successful results in the Millett Hybrid heritage. We tried them for the Starving Student long ago (probably rds who did it first) and they worked well, so they became part of the design for the SSMH PCB. VitaminQ's are probably a better choice, but there are tradeoffs in size, bass response, and a bit of detail. It would be very difficult to get them to fit on the PCB and in the custom Beezer/Hammond case, for instance.

At any rate, a great deal of the higher audio frequencies - the kind you regularly resolve into details with your ears - go through the film cap bypasses anyway, so the electrolytic only has effect in the lower frequencies. Sort of.
As I said, when bypassing, strict rules don't always apply. At any rate, "leveling out the differences with electrolytic boutique options" was a very general statement and was not meant at all to mean that it "smoothed everything out."




Dsavitsk's (the SSMH PCB designer) own website is one of the best sources on the net for this:
Notes on Output Coupling Capacitors
There is also another that's not quite as good in scoring, etc., but still useful:
Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test



Thanks that all good info.

I was just kind of thinking that since you said the difference from using the FGs and the wimas may be very subtle or not anything at all meant that there may not be much point in using them. I guess though a about a dollar more a cap for 2 caps it cant hurt. I was just trying to find a way that could possibly make the cap change more noticeable.

I don't want to loose any detail or bass response. I'm trying to increase bass and mostly try and gain detail, so if the Vitamin Qs will take some of that away I wouldn't want to use them.

I'm thinking that I will follow that BOM you have pretty closely as its gotta be a great sounding amp after all the work you have put into it. Im thinking about using different caps in the output, probably the FGs you recommended and see what its like.
 
     Share This Post       
post-6359614
Post #4,566 of 7,249

tomb

Member of the Trade: Beezar.com
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
10,322
Reaction score
619
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
10,322
Likes
619
Quote:

Originally Posted by UKToecutter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Bah !!!!

Tom. I meant Ocean Green !!!

Andy



Thanks - that will save me some work in contacting you. Ocean Blue I did not have.
 
     Share This Post       
post-6359625
Post #4,567 of 7,249

tomb

Member of the Trade: Beezar.com
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
10,322
Reaction score
619
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
10,322
Likes
619
Please guys - it takes time I don't have to straighten this out - READ THE LISTING!

PRIORITY MAIL SHIPPING, ONLY!
 
     Share This Post       
post-6360053
Post #4,568 of 7,249

UKToecutter

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
152
Reaction score
10
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Posts
152
Likes
10
I set my alarm for 3:55am to make sure I got an order in.
I clicked straight through wihout reading (well, there are only 35 of these kits after all)
Cocked up the LED colour in the comments, picked the wrong shipping.
Decided to calculate the difference in shipping and sent the wrong supplementry amount.

Lesson 1

Don't wake up 5 minutes before ordering anything at 4am

Tom
I apologise
 
     Share This Post       
post-6360111
Post #4,569 of 7,249

sam_cat

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Posts
19
Likes
0
Ditto.. Alarm went off at 4am, woke up and clicked the alarm off... Woke up an hour later having an 'Oh S***' moment... Got online and ordered it.
Gone with the default leds, but have some special colours here in 3mm (yellow/white ones, and some dark purple ones, along with all the usual colours).. Ordered a 2nd pair of sockits with it, going to adapt them and test the various led colours I have before commiting to one colour, see what I prefer...



Tomb - Any idea where in the order stack I am, ie will I be getting fully matched tubes? or ???

Sam
 
     Share This Post       
post-6360293
Post #4,571 of 7,249

tomb

Member of the Trade: Beezar.com
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
10,322
Reaction score
619
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
10,322
Likes
619
Quote:

Originally Posted by sam_cat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ditto.. Alarm went off at 4am, woke up and clicked the alarm off... Woke up an hour later having an 'Oh S***' moment... Got online and ordered it.
Gone with the default leds, but have some special colours here in 3mm (yellow/white ones, and some dark purple ones, along with all the usual colours).. Ordered a 2nd pair of sockits with it, going to adapt them and test the various led colours I have before commiting to one colour, see what I prefer...



Tomb - Any idea where in the order stack I am, ie will I be getting fully matched tubes? or ???

Sam



I can't tell specifically, yet, but my guess is that it will have to get down further than this before you'll have to worry about the tubes. As Dsavitsk has said many times, it takes a huge mis-match to have any effect at all, though.

Please remember - I'm only providing pin-less and glued tube sockets for the kits. Any other tube sockets you order - you'll have to do them yourself.
 
     Share This Post       
post-6360372
Post #4,572 of 7,249

sam_cat

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Posts
19
Likes
0
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please remember - I'm only providing pin-less and glued tube sockets for the kits. Any other tube sockets you order - you'll have to do them yourself.



Thought that would be the case, and its not an issue. Thanks anyway.

 
     Share This Post       
post-6360756
Post #4,573 of 7,249

UKToecutter

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
152
Reaction score
10
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Posts
152
Likes
10
Tom,

After the 35 kits will there be any PCB's left over?

I have this thought about putting together a balanced SSHA.

Andy
 
     Share This Post       
post-6360829
Post #4,574 of 7,249

tomb

Member of the Trade: Beezar.com
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
10,322
Reaction score
619
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Posts
10,322
Likes
619
Quote:

Originally Posted by UKToecutter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Tom,

After the 35 kits will there be any PCB's left over?

I have this thought about putting together a balanced SSHA.

Andy



There will be some odds and ends that I'll put up for sale once we know that everyone has their kits and I didn't forget anything. It appears that there may even be some tubes left. Unfortunately, PCB's were actually the limiting item for this final round. To get more at a reasonable price, I'd have to order about 200 and there are not enough tubes for that.
 
     Share This Post       

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top