[Ross]

Quote:

there's really no need (*cough*ross*cough* ) for people to disparage other people's opinions.

You know, sometimes I think there is a need to disparage stupid opinions.

I have no problem with someone not liking Beethoven or Miles Davis - plenty of people don't like jazz or classical - but that's not the issue. If that's all LTUCCI said, I would not have bothered responding.

If someone is genuinely interested in learning about classical or jazz, a post along the lines of "hey, I'm new to this jazz/classical thing, and I'm having a bit of trouble understanding Beethoven/Miles Davis, could someone please help me out" would be more appropriate than describing Beethoven as "pointless ravings" or Miles Davis as headache-inducing and "Up front in your face attacking my ears".

Those aren't the comments of someone who is open-minded or willing to put in the effort to appreciate this music. Because, like all great art, it does require effort. Unlike "easy listening" (whatever the hell that is) or pop music, great art doesn't come to you served on a platter and requiring no effort. So I stand by my comment: either be prepared to put in the effort, or stick to your Kenny G records.

Ross

PS If I ever say something stupid - which I do frequently - feel free to tell me so, as long as you can tell me why.

 

[2 channel]

Hey Coolvij, perhaps you should change your moniker to Cooltrane!

Thats pretty good advice lou, Coltrane is definately "darker" that Miles Davis...and almost as talented.



















gotcha Coolvij!
BBWWWAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAHHHAAAAA

 

[MacDEF]

ross, I included the

above because I didn't want you to take my comment too seriously

I'm just trying to look at someone like LTUCCI1924 as someone who has very little experience with jazz. The trumpet is a very piercing instrument at times, even to those of us who like it (hey, I played it many, many years ago

). I can see someone without much exposure to it being put off.

Hopefully, over time LTUCCI1924 will appreciate Miles and his trumpet. Maybe we just need to ease him into it... a bit of sax, then some trombone, then a little flügel, then a cornet, then the trumpet

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

Unlike "easy listening" (whatever the hell that is) or pop music, great art doesn't come to you served on a platter and requiring no effort.

I don't know about that. As I recall, I loved Beethoven's music at first listen, but I have to exert a great deal of effort to derive much enjoyment from "muzak." But maybe that's just me

 

[Audio Redneck]

First: your posts are welcome - all I got out of it was "trumpets ain't your thang" so no offense. And Miles is definately plays at a high pitch.

Second: My favorite peice on that album is So What . For another inturpritation, Larry Carlton's Live Last Nite has a cut of it that might be more to your liking.

 

[john_jcb]

Music appreciation is a very individual thing and we all come to it from different backgrounds. College courses are dedicated to the understanding of different genres. Much of what is percieved as elitism buy people that read the responses is actually the more articulate members searching for a way to describe in words minute differences in sounds. The same is often said of food and wine reviewers.

That being said I think that we should look beyond the words at times and try and understand what they are actually trying to say. I think perhaps the words of LTUCCI1924 are being taken too literally. I think if he wasn't interested in learning ( which I think most of us are) he wouldn't continue to post.

John

 

[huy_ha]

My reaction to this post had to do with timing. The same day, a coworker and I were discussing how Kind Of Blue seemed to be the most universal of jazz standards. Neither of us had met anyone who had a less than neutral response to the album, even if they didn't know or like jazz. People are certainly entitled to their opinions, but certain albums are considered masterpieces by everyone. I suppose that should be amended to virtually everyone. LTUCCI1924, I certainly hope this album grows on you.

 

[coolvij]

2 Channel: You just keep pretending

We all know.........

Actually, I don't talent is what separates the two.......it's their approaches to music. Miles preferred to leave u guessing - whereas Coltrane was almost blunt in his TOTAL expression.........that's why the contrast of their combined efforts is so nice to hear........


Personally, I find Coltrane to be head and tails above Miles - but everything is preference, as I'm sure you know.........and........don't pull my leg like that.




For a second there, I thought you were SERIOUS!

 

[Ross]

They were both so different, that it is not really an appropriate comparison to say one was better than the other.

As you said, Coltrane played with his heart on his sleeve, every note was a total expression and was played with soul-destroying sincerity.

Miles is more austere and more distant; rather than include every ounce of emotion, as Coltrane does, he gives only the minimum, essential notes, and it is for the listener as well as the other band members to fill in the gaps.

But Miles' other great skill - more so than Coltrane - was as a band leader. As a leader, his musical genius was as much in his selection of his musicians - including Coltrane - and his influence over them, as the notes he played himself.

Miles also advanced the art of jazz - with "cool" jazz, modal jazz, fusion and other innovations - I believe more than Coltrane did, who was essentially musically conservative, if passionate. Coltrane was like Mozart, a genius working within existing forms, compared to Miles' Beethoven, perhaps less musically gifted (though still a genius), but who completely changed the face of music.

Ross

 

[NathanJM]

LTUCCI1924,

Have you tried turning down the volume? -- that might help cure that 'in your face' feeling

No, seriously though, I think the source of your problem may be simply that the music of Miles Davis is just so different from that of Pink Floyd for instance. I happen to also be a pretty big into Pink Floyd, and when I first listened to Kind of Blue I will admit I found it kind of disappointing -- it made be kind of 'blue'. However, it has since become one of my favorite albums.
There is simply so much going on that is impossible to grasp its greatness after just one listen.


To help you transition to Miles Davis jazz I would suggest maybe listening to like John Coltrane or Thelonious Monk.

All 3 artists are great musicains and I think its great that you're expanding your musical tastes. Jazz is just a type of music so different from everything else that it may take some time to get used to it. And when that day comes, you will be changed forever. You won't be able to let go of your jazz albums and won't be able to understand the people who don't like jazz.

Jazz is not just music: Jazz is emotion, Jazz is life


happy listening!

 

[coolvij]

Ross: To say Coltrane didn't move jazz forward I find quite distressing. In my mind, Coltrane DID move jazz forward - not as much as the influential and mammoth figure, Miles, but in a different way. (coughASCENSIONcough) - he brought the musical passion into free jazz, which is usually more anarchic than anything.

Remember, the work that he was most proud of was his super-expressive Impulse! work.....not his more popular Atlantic recordings or Blue Train.


However, on the other points, I agree....Miles Davis was definetely the bigger figure in jazz history.

That said, I prefer Coltrane.




You should, too

(i'm only kidding, Miles fans......)

 

[Audio-Me]

What's the smoothest sounding Coltrane album? I love Miles, but Saxophone has that rich laid back tone, thick lush midrange.

 

[secretagent44]

I think that "The Gentle Side of John Coltrane" is a pretty good compilation of the stuff you're looking for. The albums Ballads, John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman, and maybe even My Favorite Things (I'm not a huge fan of the soprano sax) would be good places to start.

 

[LTUCCI1924]

,

 

[Jeff Guidry]

With certain headphones, I have found kind of blue to be a rather harsh attack, since much of the information is panned hard left and right. Strangely, headphones with a narrow soundstage are easier to listen to this record with than ones with a wide soundstage. Example: I thought Kind of Blue sounded dreadful on my (soon not to be my) HP 890's, because the hard left of Coltrane's sax was very distressing. On my V6's, however, the instrument sounds (dare I say it?) more natural and better placed in the sound picture. I've listened to Kind of Blue many times on my V6's, but I couldn't get through one listen on my 890's.

To those of you who assumed that Lou meant that he didn't like Kind of Blue, I suggest you re-read his post. He didn't say he didn't like the album, he said "My 580s sounded like a pair of grado 325s. Up front in your face attacking my ears." Then he said "I put on a easy listening cd and yes there was that wounderfull full detailed acturate laid back sound that I like so very much. So off into the cosmic realm going higher and higher towards the presapest. Ahhh the wounder of the 580s."

He sounds like he was describing the sound of the recording and how it suited him on the 580's. There's nothing in the post the says ANYTHING about his opinion of Miles Davis as an artist.

I think these boards have gotten unnecesarrily confrontational, thanks to members who have gotten in to the habit of being very strident and confrontational. Flame post after flame post gets boring, and I am afraid that head-fi is becoming just another troll board. Giving your opinion of someone else's opinion is plain stupid.

If you can't say something nice...