[TMoney]

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Hennyo seemed like a cool guy at first but after reading that thread, seeing his ridiculous flip of a poorly built onboard kgsshv into a SR-009, seeing his messages to sachu in order to flip the SR-009 for money, and now reading this thread I don't trust the guy at all.  I'm glad you put this thread up so the word can get out about these bad seeds in the community.  Having dealt with one or two now myself I can understand your frustration.  I'll try to link to this thread from time to time so I can 'put him out of business'.

 
I agree that he seemed like an ok guy at first. I thought his Idea of a college student making commercial amps for a living and competing with head-amp seemed very extremely unrealistic and far-fetched, but in a naieve kind of way. At the time I wished him good luck and tried to impart a few words of advice. He seemed earnest, so I really didn't think he'd turn out to be such a punk.
 
Boy was I wrong. Not only is it disappointing that he isn't helping Erico, his conduct with TruBlew is just sickening. Reading those emails just makes my blood boil. My sincere condolences to anyone who was ripped off by this guy.
 
Oh, and by the way Henryo, ever heard of public records? It isn't terribly difficult to track someone down, even if they've moved addresses. The whole "you can't find me so screw you" thing is a total joke. You are incredibly lucky that there is only $500 dollars at stake so it isn't worth the time or effort to track you down.

 

[Silent One]

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There was a case not too long ago about custom Marantz amps (casework, re-capping, improving, etc) where users were out $5K+ in every instance. I seem to remember the guy working on his mom's table as well... may be the same case.
It seems to be that you should not be the guinea pig for any startup business, only trust established builders for work on nearly anything.
Off topic... I tend to look at the poster after I read the message. Reading "Silent One" right after "it's good everyone is communicating" was a little funny. Completely irrelevant, but I felt the need to laugh at it.

 
 

  

  This suggests, I was moved by the OP to be heard from.

 

[Silent One]

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This is the thread you're thinking of:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/566728/warning-about-kyle-of-reference-audio-mods
 
Common denominators: both do nice casework, shoddy internals, and have a demagnetized moral compass.

 
 
O, you're good! I couldn't quite remember what RAM stood for. 

 

[wuwhere]

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That is indeed the problem, while the whole point of the KGSSHV was to bring ultra high end amp design to the masses this is by no means an easy amp to build.  The devil is in the details and if you get those wrong then there is no hope it will ever work right. 

 
Indeed! One also need some good tools and test instruments.

 

[The Monkey]

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When soliciting and commissioning builds the onus is on the buyer to vet the builder (and pay him in ways he can dispute in the future.)  Short of banning WTB ads for any DIY job that would make a profit, there's not much preventative work to do on Head-Fi's part.
 
What Head-Fi can and should do is contain the issue once it occurs - quickly sort out the offending party, IP ban them, and try to keep an eye out for recurring shady characters.  

 
If I were running HF, I would not be comfortable with the fact that these practices were occurring through my site and across my servers.
 
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Such as? I don't think any measure is ultimately going to 100% stop stupidity and maliciousness any more than running as fast as you can in the direction of rotation would stop the world going around. The best that can be done is to put up warnings (which I've already done about using Paypal Gift) but I still get people complaining that they were scammed after using it to try and save money.

 
Curra, I'm going to dig in and see if there are some best practices around this that could help. It's possible that all that can be done is; but I'm not sure and would like to see if maybe there are more protections available.

 

[TruBrew]

Quote:

 
Such as? I don't think any measure is ultimately going to 100% stop stupidity and maliciousness any more than running as fast as you can in the direction of rotation would stop the world going around. The best that can be done is to put up warnings (which I've already done about using Paypal Gift) but I still get people complaining that they were scammed after using it to try and save money.

 
While I appreciate the warning you post advising against paypal gift payment, it would have made no difference from what I can tell. Here are a few things that I am quoting from paypal's terms of service.
 
To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:
Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible. 
Open a Dispute within 45 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution.
 
PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

Custom made items

 

 

The payment was more than 45 days ago, for a custom made item, and not for the full amount of the item. I will always pay as a purchase in the future, but I just don't want people to think that paypal will always protect them.

 

[The Monkey]

Well, the guy obviously owes you something.  You paid $500.  That it was the "gift" option under paypal is irrelevant.  That may violate the Paypal TOS but it doesn't give the recipient the right to defraud you; it just means that paypal doesn't care.  He also wrote that he would pay you back in response to your request.  This one seems pretty simple.  Either you get a $500 refund or $500 in parts with the possible reasonable deduction of time spent working on the thing.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I'm so glad right now that the gang at another forum had me steer clear of dealing with -=Hennyo=-
 
Sorry both of you got taken for a ride though (TruBrew and Erico...)

 

[sridhar3]

Surprising.  I never had a problem with the guy.  This is a pretty crap situation though.  I hope the issue gets resolved.

 

[Elysian]

Lol
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Hennyo

updated their location 5/10/12 at 2:49pm

 
Any progress on working something out, TruBrew?  Monkey pretty much gave the fairest way for this to sort out above.
1) Hennyo refunds you $500.  Arguably not unreasonable, since he still gets the parts he needed for a KGSSHV; he could still just build the KGSSHV and sell it on the FS forums.
2) You get $500 parts back minus a nominal cost for him sourcing them, if he doesn't want to make the amp.
 
The only concern I have about HF getting more involved is whether they would assume any liability for any involvement, even if it's just very basic due diligence, for these private transactions.  I know there's a MOT label, and I think that, or some other label, should go to users who are trying to sell private services.  There should also be some distinction between someone trying to sell amps costing a few thousand dollars vs. a guy who will recable headphones for a beer and pizza.

 

[The Monkey]

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The only concern I have about HF getting more involved is whether they would assume any liability for any involvement, even if it's just very basic due diligence, for these private transactions.  I know there's a MOT label, and I think that, or some other label, should go to users who are trying to sell private services.  There should also be some distinction between someone trying to sell amps costing a few thousand dollars vs. a guy who will recable headphones for a beer and pizza.

 
 
Yeah, it's a delicate balance and HF needs to be careful for its own sake.  Too wild west and it looks irresponsible; too hands-on and it's potentially getting embroiled in a middleman situation, which I'm sure HF would not prefer.  Certainly, though, this community has been good about self-policing in the past.  That's harder now because the site is so much bigger and has changed its focus a bit, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.  And by self-policing, I don't mean mods, I mean we the members need to continue to call people out on shady business practices.   

 

[Radio_head]

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif

And by self-policing, I don't mean mods, I mean we the members need to continue to call people out on shady business practices.   

 
Head-Fi neighborhood watch all the way.  Just don't ban members for their hoodies.

 

[TruBrew]

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Lol
 
Any progress on working something out, TruBrew?  Monkey pretty much gave the fairest way for this to sort out above.
1) Hennyo refunds you $500.  Arguably not unreasonable, since he still gets the parts he needed for a KGSSHV; he could still just build the KGSSHV and sell it on the FS forums.
2) You get $500 parts back minus a nominal cost for him sourcing them, if he doesn't want to make the amp.
 
The only concern I have about HF getting more involved is whether they would assume any liability for any involvement, even if it's just very basic due diligence, for these private transactions.  I know there's a MOT label, and I think that, or some other label, should go to users who are trying to sell private services.  There should also be some distinction between someone trying to sell amps costing a few thousand dollars vs. a guy who will recable headphones for a beer and pizza.

 
I have no desire to contact Mike again. I had been been asking for him to return my money in private a few times over the last couple of months. I started to realize that he had been lying, and was in over his head. When I reached the end of my patience I threatened to out him if not repaid within one week. He did not respond to that. After a week I realized I would not be receiving my money, so I tried again with the treat of criminal action. I did get a response to that, but it was to tell me to piss off, and bring it. I have no desire to try and work anything out with him from this point on. 
 
As for the two option, of course I find option 1 acceptable. That is what I asked him for. As for option 2, what am I going to do with a bunch of used parts. I am sure he has spent a ridiculous amount of time on it, but that is because he didn't really have a full understanding of what he was doing in the first place. So lets say he sends me back some parts, minus his time. I am left with $300 worth of used parts I would be lucky to get $150 for. Sure that is better than nothing, but still not acceptable. I would rather end up with nothing than agree to that as a "resolution"
 
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Yeah, it's a delicate balance and HF needs to be careful for its own sake.  Too wild west and it looks irresponsible; too hands-on and it's potentially getting embroiled in a middleman situation, which I'm sure HF would not prefer.  Certainly, though, this community has been good about self-policing in the past.  That's harder now because the site is so much bigger and has changed its focus a bit, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.  And by self-policing, I don't mean mods, I mean we the members need to continue to call people out on shady business practices.   

 
Their is nothing that I can see that Head-Fi could have done. I don't think it was a secret that Mike was scouting out amp buyers, so maybe they could have talked to him before he took any ones money, but I don't blame them, or expect them to be so anal about controlling activity. I think the way things are being handled works. It is up to each of us to be responsible, but we should of course also warn others if need be. I am also trying to follow up with criminal charges as I told him I would, and he challenged me to do. The first thing I did was call the local police department in Utah. They told me the crime took place where I lived, so I needed to file locally. The next day I called the Economic crimes division of my local police department. They told me I had to talk to my distic police. So, the day after that I drove over to the local district station. They told me that they did not take criminal complaints, and that I would have to go across town to pick up a form. I was also told I could call 911 and have a cruiser come to my house. I don't really want to waste time and resources like that so I may just drive across town. I talked to a friend who just graduated from law school. This is what he said.
 
 
Louisiana law is weird on sentencing guidelines. Some of them are ten to ninety-nine years. Judges get a lot of room. The burden of proof for this is beyond a reasonable doubt. Not sure the proof is there. Call the da or police and see what they say. 
 
It's a small amount. They might not do much. 
 
 
I would just let it go, but Mike pissed me off pretty good with that last message. I am not sure what to do.

 

[sphinxvc]

It's tough, but I think you should let it go.  Be thankful it was only $500.  Agree with Sachu's post on seeing this coming.  This guy was a bit of a weirdo on the T50RP thread more than a year ago--never really gave me good vibes, he seemed like a juvenile then and I was surprised when I saw him soliciting KGSSHV commissions.  

 

[verwandlung]

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This thread should be in a more visible place.

I already posted the link in the BHSE and the Stax threads, but you are right.