[TruBrew]

I thought everyone else should know to stay very far away from Hennyo. A few months ago I posted an add for a KGSS / SRM-717. He solicited me to build a KGSSHV. I agreed and discussions began. After a while I decided to trust him enough to send $500 to hep him cover parts. I later told him I did not want the amp, and he asked for some time to repay my $500. Well after two months and asking a number of times for my money back, he has not decided to screw me over and walk away with it.
 
I tired to give him another opportunity to repay me before bringing it out in the open, but he decided against that. Since he has stolen money from me, I told him if I went unpaid I would file a criminal report of theft. Here is what he said in response to that. After reading his most recent messages, I called the police in Utah. I was told by them I had to file the claim locally, and that they would coordinate  with the police there. I have to run right now, but I will call the local police later this evening. 
 
 
 
 
3:55 PM CST
 
Hi Andrew, I owe you nothing. 
 
You don't have anything. I rented that house for school for Spring semester three weeks ago. You don't have a name, and for all you know you don't even have the legal grounds or right to the money you made a deposit on. Your deposit was a commitment (hence deposit) and you knew it was for your made to order. You backed out, you lost your product.
If you'd like to waste your time, go ahead and be my guest.
 If you want to threaten me, bring it. 
 
You also sent the money to me as gift. I legally stole nothing from you. You legally sent me a deposit and commitment for a product, that you ordered to be made.
Screw off, I don't know what grounds you are going to be filing on, but legally, you'd better get serious if you think you can get anything out of me. Until then, your threats are just false. You accordingly set a deposit for your product according to business standard. As a businessman, I cannot afford to take the loss on your amp that you pre-ordered. Feel free to "thrash" me on Head-fi. There's nothing that matters to me anymore. My dignity is in-tact. I've kept my trades, and you're backing out of your commitment, by choice you forfeit the deposit at which time is in parts for your amp at this point. 
 
Good luck.
 
 
 
3:52 PM CST
 
 
You won't be getting money back. 
 
You have a Paypal e-mail for which account can be closed. You lack a proper address, and grounds to claim build money on, you lack a full (or at least in any way distinguishing) name, and nor am I in school right now.
 
 
 
3:51 PM CST
 
 
Hi Andrew, I owe you nothing. 
 
You don't have anything. I rented that house for school for Spring semester three weeks ago. You don't have a name, and for all you know you don't even have the legal grounds or right to the money you made a deposit on. Your deposit was a commitment (hence deposit) and you knew it was for your made to order. You backed out, you lost your product.
If you'd like to waste your time, go ahead and be my guest.
 If you want to threaten me, bring it. 
 
You also sent the money to me as gift. I legally stole nothing from you. You legally sent me a deposit and commitment for a product, that you ordered to be made.
Screw off, I don't know what grounds you are going to be filing on, but legally, you'd better get serious if you think you can get anything out of me. Until then, your threats are just false. You accordingly set a deposit for your product according to business standard. As a businessman, I cannot afford to take the loss on your amp that you pre-ordered. Feel free to "thrash" me on Head-fi. There's nothing that matters to me anymore. My dignity is in-tact. I've kept my trades, and you're backing out of your commitment, by choice you forfeit the deposit at which time is in parts for your amp at this point. 
 
See ya.
 

 

[allyl]

Sorry to hear that. Best of luck getting your funds back from this guy. Sounds like had he tried, he could have worked out a much more amenable solution with you.

 

[Radio_head]

That sucks.  Were there any terms initially about backing out?  (ie if he spent the $500 on parts and then you back out then the deposit is non-refundable.)
 
Either way, this is beyond civility.  It's unfortunate when the DIY crowd (who are usually good samaritans, helping each other with builds, projects, sourcing parts etc) mess each other over.

 

[ivanrocks321]

I hope you get him. Thanks for letting everyone know about this one. added him to block list. PS maybe try to work it out some more perhaps he did already start if so you may not get the deposit back but at least he should send you what was completed. 

 

[Silent One]

I'd also open up a dispute with Paypal and immediately escalate it to a claim. Giving Paypal the opportunity to review the matter and make a decision.

 

[Radio_head]

Can't make a dispute on a gift.  Zero protection.

 

[TruBrew]

I have never trusted paypal protection outside of Ebay. I should have sent money as a payment though, so I could have used my AMEX card. They on the other hand, provide good buyer protection. 
 
I will look through the PMs I have later, but I do not recall any explicit discussion related to the condition of the deposit. First off, this was not like he was just doing me a favor. I could understand it more if he was building me an amp for cost just to be nice, and I screwed him over with a bunch of parts. His intention was to build a lot of amps and become a commercial builder. Considering that fact, hin being left with extra parts is no big deal. It would be like backing out of a BHSE from Justin. He doesn't care if he has extra parts. Someone else will buy it. Clearly he will never make it as a builder. 

 

[Radio_head]

You'd think if he planned on going commercial he wouldn't want to risk a public outing by his first customer.  
 
I guess my thought process was that the profit doesn't come until he sells the amp - at the point when you pulled out he could be losing if anything (as cost of parts is more than $500.)  That's why some commissioned builders will work with non-refundable deposits.  
 
Also, just a thought but his telling you he wanted to "make a bunch of amps and go commercial" might have just been bluster.  Now you're trusting a budding commercial builder on the upswing instead of a guy in his mom's basement with a soldering iron.  

 

[TruBrew]

Here are a few posts from him.
 
20 Jan 2012
 
Well, if that's the case, I can do it a little bit cheaper for you. I can understand that you're a college student too. I could do 2,950.00$ and no less. I am an EE / EET student/major. And DiY my own EStats if that's any extra qualification of my expertise. 

 I also am heavily entrenched in the community both here and at (Other Site), I'm not going anywhere. I intend to make a business out of these things, and BHSE's / maybe I'll do a couple T2's. Kevin Gilmore doesn't allow anyone to build his designs unless they do it withexcellence. This is his number one concern, otherwise none of us would be able to afford these amps in the first place, If he charged any of us for his design. (He wants his designed to be represented well.) I've already asked for Kevin Gilmore's blessing.
 
Here are some slides if you're interested. I can also make something new for you. This is going very fast. I'll give you some time to think about it. I also build in 30 days... None of this 1+ year 6800$. I've already checked, most of the mafia is already ok with my making a go of this.
 
My other buyers are actually paying a titch more than this, and one an Sr 009. I'm trying to start this business and I need people to build for. If we agree to this price my only real (courteous) condition would be that you do not mention the price to anyone. If anyone asks, you paid 3,600$ for yours.
I also give my buyers all of my personal information so you have security. I make these amps so I don't have to go to work study at school, and the more I make the faster I become. I (and I think others would also at this point) promise that you are getting the absolute best value, and perhaps best all around - for your dollar. There are no catches, and I'm thinking about not requiring a down payment (unlike Justin). At least not for my first few amp while I'm gaining a reputation. I've also offered to do yours cheaper. 

 I'd hope you'd write a sound review on it. Or just let people know who built it ~
 
 
As you can see from this one, no deposit was required, no mention of it being non refundable. 
 
22 January 2012
 
I require no down payment, but appreciate it if you make one. Sounds very good. I'm working on the first one now but will finish (Buyers)'s by the 28th. I'll get started on yours around the 25th or so. Pictures will come of (Buyer).
 
 
Here is another reference
 
23 January 2012
 
Tell you what, I don't need a down payment. I can promise you you have nothing to worry about but I understand your concern. I require no down payment.. 
 
 
This I thought was a bit ridiculous, but just took as him being excessively boastful. Looking back, I should have been more concerned by it. 
 
28 January 2012
 
However it will go up, I am just discovering there is a reason why Justin's amps cost so much (however imo he's still gouging people). I intend to put Justin out of business, or at least make him Justin 10x more competitive. As a
Uni student living in the dorms, I have a lower opportunity cost than he does too. I can build these amps for next to nothing (below 4 grand) and still survive. He (the average person) would not be so fortunate.
 
 
27 February 2012 is when I asked for my money back the first time. Here is my PM to him
 
Not to be a dick on this, but I just read through the thread on (Other Site) where is is apparent that you don't know very much about what you are doing. I was under the impression that you had experience in amp building. I am needless to say, a bit too concerned to have you build my amp, and would ask for a refund. This does put a damper on my situation because now I am going to have to go out and look for something else. Sorry for the situation, but even if you fix your work, I don't want to have to worry that it is going to blow my house up. Lets be honest, if it does my insurance is not going to pay for any damages. They are going to blame me for running a piece of unregulated electronics. 
 
I hope you fix the issues and find some customers, but I can't take the risk with so much money on the line. If your skills improve and I want one in the future, I will obviously just have to pay whatever your going rate at the time is. Anyway, for now I would just ask for the $500 returned. You should already have my email, if not it is (Email). Sorry again that we can not do business.
 
Andrew
 
 
This is his initial response to that request
 
27 February 2012
 
 
Andrew, I will send you your money back when I get money in my account. Should be 3-5 business days. They have not seen the correct (latest) two pictures I have sent you. Every problem in the (Other Site) thread, has been taken very seriously and without fail attended.
 
Kevin has now given his support. After just saying thanks and showing him the 'clean' pictures in the build, he encouraged me to build more amps.. Kevin's # 1 is safety, and now, after a (Other Site) "ringer" so is mine. Ever since fixing the problems of the first build in the pictures I have sent you, Kevin, ChinsettaWong, Livewire, and Maxvala, all think I should continue building amps. Basically, all of my ground issues have been released.
 
Here's our recent message. This is after the (Other Site) guys raged the first build, and if you check the pictures, I have followed the suggestions made. According to those few I mentioned above. I must follow things to spec. A first amp simply employs a problems. I don't think there's been a single builder who's fired it on their first time without having to respech. It is a big amp and an unforgiving design. That is why my next one > that I'm working on are to be perfect from start to finish. I sympathize with your alarm. And vehemently examined it under a microscope a while back. It's been almost 2 weeks. Thank you. 
 
I have pages of conversations between us, but obviously most of i is trivial. As you can see, I was not the first person he built an amp for. I talked to the only person that has an amp built by him, and this is what I was told. I have not asked permission to quote him, so that is why I have removed reference to their name. I will ask permission to add it later.
 
10 May 2012
 
I don't know if the KGSSHV he assembled for me worked or not before getting here. He used to lie a lot if I can recall correctly. The fact is that when I turned it on, it just popped and fried a lot ot transistors inside it, but what I can tell for sure is that upon opening the chassis I could see that he used very good parts to build it (the best there are). But I think he doesn't know exactly what he was messing with when he thought he could start assembling those amps.
I got pissed because he didn't want to help me, or even receive the amp back for service. He just sent me the diagrams. So the problem was mine from that point...
Since I'm trying to gather all the parts I need to fix it with the help of some people.
 
 

 

[sachu]

Sorry buddy for all the crap you are going through. But you sent it as a gift as it states in the OP, then there really is nothing you can do as if you claim you sent it for a product then you violated paypal's terms of agreement and that could bite you back.
 
Not to mention, i saw this coming..was just a matter of time before someone got screwed over by hennoyo. 
 
He became defensive when i quoted the prices for parts for a KGSSHV build would be..claiming it to be twice what it really costs to build one. Then having seen some of his work..i am shocked some of you stil went ahead with having him "build" you an ' electrostatic amp'..more like a electroshock waiting to happen in my humble opinion..I'd say be glad you didn't go all the way and receive the "product"
 
THen he tried to sell that 009..wow i could not believe all the BS he spewed at me through PMs trying to convince me to buy them even when i told him what my final offer was.
 
There is little recourse here from what i can tell in trying to to get your money back.
 
Chalk it up as one of life's lessons and try to let it go i say. 

 

[garetz]

Well after reading it all, i dont see what the problem is. You commissioned an item to be built, you then reneged on that agreement. You chose to send him the money, noone forced you to do that. Obviously the guy spent money making the item, and his time.

The guy is obnoxious, and didnt handle the situation right, if i was him, i would of accounted for what i spent, and my time, and refunded you a prorata amount.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Can't make a dispute on a gift.  Zero protection.

 
Good you pointed this out. As, members are always suggesting to send as "Gift" to avoid fees or buyer pays 2-3-%. I never do this for the very reason you mentioned! I just pay the fees.

 

[Dzjudz]

Even if the 500 dollar is in amp parts, he should send you 500 dollars worth of amp parts at least.

 

[Radio_head]

I intend to put Justin out of business...
...I've asked for Kevin's blessing.
...Kevin has now given his support. 

What a delusional man.
 
And I agree, He should at least give you $500 in amp parts.  Just don't let him give you a foot of the "premium piccolino" that he's peddling and call it even. 

 

[TruBrew]

Quote:

Well after reading it all, i dont see what the problem is. You commissioned an item to be built, you then reneged on that agreement. You chose to send him the money, noone forced you to do that. Obviously the guy spent money making the item, and his time.

The guy is obnoxious, and didnt handle the situation right, if i was him, i would of accounted for what i spent, and my time, and refunded you a prorata amount.

 
 
While I agree, I did not have to send him the money, I did it to be nice. He appeared to be low on cash due to his investment in amp parts. We never agreed to the conditions of the deposit, so its status was a bit ambiguous.  Of course it later became clarified, when he agreed to return it. The agreement he made to repay the deposit, set the precedent. Also, any agreement we entered into would have been voided when I learned he misrepresented his services. I agreed to pay for an amp, built by a new, but competent and professional builder. He is neither. Proof of that can easily be seen by the fact that the only amp he finished "popped and fried a lot ot transistors" when turned on. I don't remember my deposit being for an amp with that feature.