[astrostar59]

  I must admit..  The absolutely best DAC I've ever heard was the Audio Note 5 Signature.  
 
I wanted to have a DAC with a tube output stage to bring me as close to the 5 signature as possible.  So I went out looking for those kinds of DACS.  I heard the Lampi L4 G4 the AMR DP-777 and an Audio Note 4.1 kit DAC built by "Digital Pete" To me the AMR bested the others.  I was really close to getting a Audio note kit DAC made from "Digital Pete" but the AMR beat in a few areas that I noticed.  
 
I wish I had the La Scala MKII there at the time as well.  I have since sold the AMR DP-777 and said I was done with tubes in DACs.  However, I might be getting the La Scala MKII for a home demo after all, and the AMR DP-777 SE is getting a few pretty good reviews. I also wondered about a higher end Lampi DAC, but they can get pretty pricey.  
 
I would like to through the Pavane in the mix, as I've had my eyes on this DAC for a while now.  So keep those impressions and comparisons coming..

Hi preproman
Going back to your DAC 4.1 kit, did you use a good USB to SPDIF convertor with it? The supped Hag USB back then was terrible, ruined the sound. Mine jumped hugely with a strong SPDIF convertor as the input. Also the caps in the DAC affect the final signature. The earlier ones used Audio Note copper caps, but I found I preferred V-Cap Teflons, they disappear and the dynamics and detail are better. Also the tubes, the it comes with real cheap Sovtecs. Tungsol 5687s make it sing.

 

[coli]

  great, enjoy your Pavane~

I am now planning to buy other music source device rather than using PC. I am not sure which kind of connection on Pavane sounds the best, AES? USB? I2S?

I tried optical and AES, AES sounded a lot better.

 

[windwolf447]

Cool, thx for sharing. I will try it once I got a digital music transport.

 

[astrostar59]

  Another DAC in the same price range as the Pavane is the Aqua La Scala MKII.  I wish I could get a home demo with the Pavane, I've been trying but no luck thus far.
 
http://www.aquahifi.com/la_scala.html
 

 

 
 
These tube DACs keep coming. I read just now that Audio Note may be designing a multi resistor R-2R DAC. It was at the Munich show last year, apparently sounds fantastic. No idea on pricing, might be insane prices like the DAC5 Special?

 

[coli]

Another option is to put a tube buffer after the DAC if you are after that tube harmonics. Eg: a quick search resulted in http://www.purityaudiodesign.com/300Bbuffer.htm

 

[astrostar59]

  Another option is to put a tube buffer after the DAC if you are after that tube harmonics. Eg: a quick search resulted in http://www.purityaudiodesign.com/300Bbuffer.htm

I might not be that simple, mores the pity. A tubed regulated power supply and direct coupled tubed output in the Audio Note DACs may be adding slightly to the warmth of the sound. I am thinking, maybe Metrum should have done digital or even analogue volume pot? The TotalDAC and Yggy both have that ability, it allows the user to take out another item in the chain, getting to the source material more intact.
 
If I was thinking of buying the Pavane I would most likely add a pot to the front panel. Would wreck the warranty and resale no doubt.
 
Most folk seem to be going PC or Mac as a source. The software used on those PCs all have suspect digital volume controls as we know (due the inherent issue of retaining the information at lower levels). I sold my (very good) Audio Note M3 pre-amplifier to go passive, and it is faster, cleaner, more dynamic, just better. As long as the output impedance on the DAC is low and the interconnects are fairly short, you are good.
 
The next option would be to provide output selection, now that would allow a headphone and speaker system to work without an active pre-amp. I am unsure if you could go passive on the Pavane (using a separate volume / passive pre-amp)? I am unsure if the output could drive that? Anyway, I like the Pavane based on these reviews and my (lower level) Metrum Octave MKII. But at 4K Euros, I would want those bits mentioned above to seal a purchase....

 

[preproman]

  I might not be that simple, mores the pity. A tubed regulated power supply and direct coupled tubed output in the Audio Note DACs may be adding slightly to the warmth of the sound. I am thinking, maybe Metrum should have done digital or even analogue volume pot? The TotalDAC and Yggy both have that ability, it allows the user to take out another item in the chain, getting to the source material more intact.
 
If I was thinking of buying the Pavane I would most likely add a pot to the front panel. Would wreck the warranty and resale no doubt.
 
Most folk seem to be going PC or Mac as a source. The software used on those PCs all have suspect digital volume controls as we know (due the inherent issue of retaining the information at lower levels). I sold my (very good) Audio Note M3 pre-amplifier to go passive, and it is faster, cleaner, more dynamic, just better. As long as the output impedance on the DAC is low and the interconnects are fairly short, you are good.
 
The next option would be to provide output selection, now that would allow a headphone and speaker system to work without an active pre-amp. I am unsure if you could go passive on the Pavane (using a separate volume / passive pre-amp)? I am unsure if the output could drive that? Anyway, I like the Pavane based on these reviews and my (lower level) Metrum Octave MKII. But at 4K Euros, I would want those bits mentioned above to seal a purchase....

 
The Yggdrasil does not have a volume control, the TotalDac does.  
 
I never use the volume control on any DACs I've had.  I much prefer the pot on the amps.  However, I can understand why folks would want to get rid of a pre amp if the amp does not have a pot.

 

[astrostar59]

   
The Yggdrasil does not have a volume control, the TotalDac does.  
 
I never use the volume control on any DACs I've had.  I much prefer the pot on the amps.  However, I can understand why folks would want to get rid of a pre amp if the amp does not have a pot.

The trouble is, unless there is impedance / level mismatching dropping  pre-amp will almost always win out. As I said, it needs to be noted the interconnect length and using a low capacitance interconnect. The manufacturers want us to buy a pre-amp for obvious reasons. The old style stereo setup had possibly a turntable as well, so a phono stage was needed, and tape loop. I don't need any of that. My DAC outputs 2V at 11 ohms. There is no need for more gain to my Power Amp, only attenuation. The Pavane apparently has a good level of output, not sure about the impedance, but should work with a Passive.
 
Going back to my Audio Note DAC, the gain stage is exactly the same as in one of their same level pre-amps, even the same PCB layout and tube types. It makes no sense to add a pre-amp in my case. Also it is bad design to have 2 stages of gain with the same tube types, it add inaccuracy, not too mention the components creating that (unneeded) gain.

 

[jibzilla]

I don't know about the Pavane having a "good" level of output. At least to me it sounds fairly quiet. The Auralic actually sounds a bit louder.

 

[coli]

The problem with digital volume control is that DAC performance worsen at lower volume, so it can sound better to run the DAC at max volume, then pair with a resistor based volume control, eg: goldpoint.

 

[Articnoise]

  The problem with digital volume control is that DAC performance worsen at lower volume, so it can sound better to run the DAC at max volume, then pair with a resistor based volume control, eg: goldpoint.

 

Many of the better DACs that has a volume pot uses analog or analog - digital hybrid volume pots with no degradation or bit loss (I been told that anyway).

 

[astrostar59]

  The problem with digital volume control is that DAC performance worsen at lower volume, so it can sound better to run the DAC at max volume, then pair with a resistor based volume control, eg: goldpoint.

Agree 100%. As the level of the bits is reduced digitally at the source (software) any DAC will begin to struggle to keep hold of the integrity of the data and retain quality and dynamic range.
 
I wonder of Metrum IMO should have added an Aurix style volume pot at the output. In more and more cases, high end users seems to be going with one source (Computer - DAC - Amps). And many DACs are designing in a volume pot such as TotalDAC, MSB and many DS products, the latter costing 1/8th of the Pavane. I am not saying for an instant those DS DACs are as good as regards sound quality. What I am saying is the gains to be made by dropping out an unnecessary gain stage / device can reap big rewards. I went passive last year with my DAC to Power Amp, and the extra speed, detail and dynamics was bigger than all my DAC upgrades in the past. Also I like the simplicity of it, and you can have a high end setup in a tight space which is nice for headphone users. It also saves the planet.

 

[coli]

   

Many of the better DACs that has a volume pot uses analog or analog - digital hybrid volume pots with no degradation or bit loss (I been told that anyway).

They all say that, sadly not true.

 

[coli]

  Agree 100%. As the level of the bits is reduced digitally at the source (software) any DAC will begin to struggle to keep hold of the integrity of the data and retain quality and dynamic range.
 
I wonder of Metrum IMO should have added an Aurix style volume pot at the output. In more and more cases, high end users seems to be going with one source (Computer - DAC - Amps). And many DACs are designing in a volume pot such as TotalDAC, MSB and many DS products, the latter costing 1/8th of the Pavane. I am not saying for an instant those DS DACs are as good as regards sound quality. What I am saying is the gains to be made by dropping out an unnecessary gain stage / device can reap big rewards. I went passive last year with my DAC to Power Amp, and the extra speed, detail and dynamics was bigger than all my DAC upgrades in the past. Also I like the simplicity of it, and you can have a high end setup in a tight space which is nice for headphone users. It also saves the planet.

Well, for signal integrity, resistor based volume control should be at the amp side, right before amplification, not DAC side.

 

[astrostar59]

  Well, for signal integrity, resistor based volume control should be at the amp side, right before amplification, not DAC side.

I am not sure? A 2V standard output to a power amp is attenuated by the pre-amp. What difference if that is in the DAC analogue output or the inside the Power amp (which it never is)
True, different if using a pre-amp the power amp, or integrated amp. The challenge in my view is the impedance matching of the output stage in the DAC. My DAC is effectively a pre-amp with a DAC board in it. I tried extensively with a pre-amp to power, and a DAC to passive to power, and it was no contest. I am not saying that would always be the case with all sources.