[carlo]

to clear the debate up (all first hand information from someone who's looked at the amps):

Differences between Gold Reference/Maestro and SHA-1:

Different board.

Values for headphone signal path and low voltage power supply are different but the circuit is the same.

Gold Reference and Maestro have an extra LED/FET stage in the high voltage supply, reference The Maestrobator post (which overall is a completely different beast but shares the same circuit) for some discussion on this topic. The SHA-1 lacks this stage and it can't be added on to the board.

The Gold Reference and Maestro have a seperate and dedicated Preamp output stage that had some thought put into it. The SHA-1 has two large output caps off the headphone jacks and calls it the preamp stage. Yes, it appears to be an afterthought.

The Gold Reference and Maestro boards have the capability of outputing a balanced signal, but neither is a fully balanced amp. The SHA-1 does not have this capability.

Differences between Gold Reference and Maestro:
Remote capabilities, volume control, stuff like that. The board is the same, the differences are whats off it. This is from looking at the parts list, schematic, my Gold Reference/Maestro board and lots of searching on the net.


Differences between SHA-1s
Alright, have two here now (the board itself is exactly the same):

1) A three input version with iec and two pairs out output rcas. Uses a Nobel Pot.

2)A three input version with no iec and one rca output. Uses an Alps Blue pot.

PS Caps, signal caps, diodes, high wattage resistors, and relay are different. From what I've heard when they're both functioning properly (one was sent to me to troubleshoot a problem) there's no huge difference in sound. Neither uses parts that would be considered boutique/high grade by any stretch of the imagination (not did my Gold Reference/Maestro board when it first arrived).

(not an ad)

carlo.

EDIT: forgot to add, the Gold Reference/Maestro's uses beefier transformers than the SHA-1.

 

[markl]

We want pics of the insides of both! I know that from a layman's point-of-view (i.e. me) the SHA-1 and the Gold/Maestro boards look quite different. I have no digicam, so I can't "prove" this. I've taken some slack for suggesting that the SHA-1 and the Gold/Maestro are inherently different from a headphone perspective. But based on my "eye-balling" the pictures of the guts of the SHA-1 on this site with my live and in-person SHA-Gold, and a SHA-Gold upgraded by MAR that they are both different, and the two Golds are further different from one another.

My personal experience (I've never owned the basic SHA-1), is that there is a very noticeable difference between an un-mod-ed Gold and a fully mod-ed Maestro. Obviously, the Maestro-upgraded Gold sounded much better, and I feel this difference is obvious to anyone who could hear them side-by-side as I did.

I think carlo is essentially saying the same thing, yes?

All that said, bkelly has been kind enough to have a carlo-upgraded SHA-1 sent to me to compare against my Melos Gold MAR-upgraded to Maestro head-to-head.

This should be quite an informative test. If carlo's upgraded SHA-1 sounds better than my MAR-upgraded Gold/Maestro, I fully intend to send my Maestro to him for further upgrades.

Stay tuned...

Mark

 

[kerelybonto]

Thanks for the info, carlo. By the way, was the difference between the silver and black SHA-1s purely cosmetic? If I recall correctly, the price difference was about $150, which seems a little steep for some paint. ...

(By the way, that's two now -- better watch out or it'll become a trend.)

kerely

 

[wasifazim]

I should add that my SHA-1 has one output, three inputs, IEC w/ fuse and a Noble pot, so that's yet another variant; in addition, the SHA-1 reviewed by Stereophile way back in '92 had an Alps Black Beauty pot.

Carlo, given how most Melos products aren't stuffed to the gills with Black Gates, Cardas hookup wire etc., do you think a simple parts swap (i.e. replacing a stock capacitor with a non-polar BG of the same value) would make a perceptible difference? I'm particularly curious about possible replacements for those film caps in two metal cans that look like aluminum electrolytics..

- Wasif

 

[kelly]

Carlo doesn't post often enough. It is my biggest complaint with him despite the Pink Floyd bashing. Excellent post as always. When can we expect you to describe the sonic differences between these variations?

 

[tanfenton]

To add to the SHA-1 confusion, mine has a captive cord, ALPS Black Beauty, two inputs, and one output.

NGF

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

I should add that my SHA-1 has one output, three inputs, IEC w/ fuse and a Noble pot, so that's yet another variant

This is what I have.

Carlo,

How much does it cost for Melos Audio Restoration to upgrade a SHA-1 to a Melos Gold-Reference? Is it very expensive or worth it? Or is it better to get it "Maestro-bated"? Or do you have to get the SHA-1 upgraded to a Gold before the "Maestrobation" can begin?

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by The Quality Guru Carlo, How much does it cost for Melos Audio Restoration to upgrade a SHA-1 to a Melos Gold-Reference? Is it very expensive or worth it? Or is it better to get it "Maestro-bated"? Or do you have to get the SHA-1 upgraded to a Gold before the "Maestrobation" can begin?

Ooh ooh. I know you said Carlo but apparently I like to post. You can't upgrade an SHA-1 to Gold or Maestro. As Carlo said, they're entirely different boards and when I'd emailed MAR long ago to ask that very question, he said it could not be done. MAR does offer "restoration" of SHA-1, however. From everything I've read, I think I'd rather be extra nice to Carlo and send him some pleading emails than deal with MAR but that's just me.

 

[The Quality Guru]

Kelly,

It's fine that you posted- I find your posts to be of great value as well.

Kelly or Carlo,
So then is "Maestrobation" thus not available/possible for SHA-1's- is it only a feasible upgrade w/ a Gold Reference/Maeastro amplifier? (well, obviously the original term "maestrobation" implies that it is only for maestro's, but it should be possible to upgrade an SHA-1 extensively as was done to a maestro- overlooking the board differences- correct?)

Here's the big question, however: Can my SHA-1 ever be upgraded enough to match or come close to the performance of a Gold/Maestro through transformer, capacitor or internal components upgrades? How much better of an amp can it become? In other words, would an extensive upgrade of the internal components (new pot/stepped attenuator, caps ,etc.) in my SHA-1 result in significant improvement of its sound? Or is the SHA-1's board- for headphone use- never destined to be in the same class as the board of the Gold/Maestro even with upgrades?

Also, Carlo said that the pre-amp stage was an "afterthought" with the SHA-1- so does this mean that the SHA-1 was intended to be mostly a headphone amp?

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Here's the big question, however: Can my SHA-1 ever be upgraded enough to match or come close to the performance of a Gold/Maestro

Its all guesswork till some one has both amps in hand.

OT: QG, we must be from parallel universes.

You dumped A-T and went Melos.
I dumped Melos and went A-T.

I always wanted to play the evil Captain Kirk...

 

[carlo]

Mark,

I don't have a digicam either. The headphone circuit has been the same with all the amps I've tried, the difference is the parts used and the power supply.

kerelybonto,

The one with an iec has a black faceplate, the one with the captive cord has a silver one (i'm talking about the two that're here). If that applies throughout the line I don't know.

wasifazim,
Quote:

do you think a simple parts swap (i.e. replacing a stock capacitor with a non-polar BG of the same value) would make a perceptible difference?

There'll be a difference, but how big is dependent on what location its done at. Consider The Maestrobator post your map and do the power supply diodes too

Quote:

I'm particularly curious about possible replacements for those film caps in two metal cans

Those are your preamp output caps (ignorable if you're only concerned with headphone performance), I've ordered a couple of caps for that spot but haven't experimented yet.

kelly,

Thanks man. I can give a quick run down of what I feel a stock SHA-1 sounds like:

Excellent speed, gets the definition between bass lines right, gets the swing of transients down but at the expense of a tight, forward presentation.

In a word the amp sounds "hard." Instruments don't decay in space in any way that sounds real, strings lack roundness, perception of depth isn't implied, and leading lines and seperation between instruments take away from what it does right.

Q-Guru,

What kelly said (but please don't send me emails until an ad is posted).
Quote:

would an extensive upgrade of the internal components (new pot/stepped attenuator, caps ,etc.) in my SHA-1 result in significant improvement of its sound?

yes.
Quote:

Here's the big question, however: Can my SHA-1 ever be upgraded enough to match or come close to the performance of a Gold/Maestro through transformer, capacitor or internal components upgrades?

Outperforming a Gold Reference/Maestro is not the goal, the goal of modifications is to get the circuit to sound as best as possible. From the time I've spent with a stock Gold Reference/Maestro board its not close to the best it can sound.



Thanks to those adding other variants to the list

carlo.

 

[Ebonyks]

I personally own a silverplate 3 input, 1 output, no IEC melos, and am also intrested in what upgrading offers exist. I've planned since i purchased it to upgrade the cable on it, right now, it has a belden cable with a poor quality hospital grade plug on it. Perhaps we'd be better off dealing through PM's, but i was wondering what upgrading you could do on my melos

 

[kelly]

I'm answering this in hopes that Carlo won't have to. Head-Fi's rules prohibit him from responding to commercial requests in the forum. He's previously expressed that he's not yet ready to offer his services and that if he does in the future, he'll post on ad in the ad forum.

I think it was quite cool of Carlo to share the knowledge he's gained about the different Melos mods and I'd like to see this thread continue without getting it closed. Please keep this in mind and save your commercial requests for email and when Carlo is ready for them.

I'm not a mod, I'm just a reader who wants to see the thread not get closed.

 

[carlo]

kelly,

thanks

 

[RVD]

Not to add more confusion to this thread, but I saw WIJGALT's pictures of the inside of the Melos SHA-Maestro he is selling, and the insides of mine look different from his and I have a different remote then his. So does MAR have two different mods for the Gold or something?