[samuelboy]

I have both 598 and 598SE, and they definitely sound different. Both have around 400hrs run-in times. My 598 has been around for awhile. Even as a 400hr 598 vs 0hr 598SE, the base signature difference is already there. The 400hr run on the SE just fine tunes everything.
 
Generally,
 
598 - thinner, further.
598SE - thicker/bolder around the midbass region +/-, nearer/more intimate, probably more forgiving.
 
Both are nice in their own ways.
 
I tried the HD800S recently, and interestingly the differences I observe between the original and the S are just about the same as 598 vs 598SE. 

 

 

[RockStar2005]

Pure Fidelity & VeggiePopper, 
 
You're both very welcome! I'm glad I could be of help here! Veggie yeah that black one is sweet. Just remember it's open-back you guys, so when around other people, you gotta keep it low, cuz they will hear EVERYTHING. lol That's why I prefer closed-back, but that's me. It just depends on your preferences & situation. Sennheiser actually INVENTED the open-back headphone back in 1968, so they really know how to make it sound great too. 
 
Pure........ yes the Oppo HA-2 is incredible! I absolutely love it! I'd compared it to my former Celsus Sound Companion One (CO) amp/DAC, which costs twice as much (although now it's only $549 or $449 on Amazon). Despite a few reviews saying the CO was better, when I compared them side-by-side on several tracks, the HA-2 sounded the SAME to me. So I returned the CO, and kept the HA-2. You may or may not experience what I did, but that's how it went down for me. So yes, definitely consider buying it sooner than later. Reviews are great as guides, but in the end, it's how things sound to YOUR EARS that really makes all the difference. Remember that. Doing so saved me $300. lol
 
The Tidal HiFi option is great, but again, the Hi-Res (and especially DSD) releases will almost always sound better. It has little or nothing to do with the higher resolution, unless you have the hearing of a dog. lol People can't really hear above 20kHz anyway (i.e. CD-quality). CDs are recorded at 16-bit/44.1kHz, so more than double of 20kHz (doing so ensures nothing is missed per this one formula/theorem). Sellers etc will tell you their sound quality is better because of the higher resolution, but the reality is, they only really sound better b/c producers and engineers use better masters (or remasters) on Hi-Res and DSD releases than they do for mp3 or even CD releases. They also pay greater attention to detail with them as well while working on them in the studio. So it's BS, but it's not because they DO sound better. 
 
I take my Hi-Res albums and downsample them down to CD-Quality (using dBpoweramp, which is free, even after trial ends), and they sound EXACTLY the same. Since the source was a HI-RES VERSION, that is why it sounds better and still the same even when its resolution is downsampled. Doing so makes the song take up MUCH less space, and less power to play it too. I've read studies on all this and double-blind studies and even did my own (ABX Test), and I can say for sure you can't hear a difference unless you lower it all the way down to mp3 (so don't do that! lol). So just keep that in mind, and consider investing in Hi-Res music. I've amassed quite a collection myself over the last 15 months, and it's what I mainly listen to these days. I just take my time b/c it can get expensive, but they have deals and coupon codes all the time. I back them all up on my Microsoft OneDrive cloud storage, and other CD-Quality stuff on Google Drive as well (the rest I have on Google Music, but those are my old mp3s only). Just DO NOT back them up on Google Music or the main Apple iCloud for Music (name?) because they will automatically DOWNSAMPLE your tracks to mp3s (it's like being poured a $300 glass of great scotch, and then someone spits in it lol)! OneDrive and Drive will leave them as is. 
 
Veggie all those amps or DACs appear to be desktop ones. You must buy for what setup you want most. For me, I really prefer portable setups as I sometimes like to listen to my headphones while riding on the train. You want to make sure you have an amp/DAC COMBO for best results, not just one or the other (though I've never seen a DAC w/o an amp as of yet). If you're just listening at home, then I would ask/look around on here to see what people think about those desktop amp/DACs and then go from there. But if you want portability, I recommend looking at the 3 I mentioned in my last post. I have never tried the FiiO E18K, though again I did own the E6 and E11k (now A3) amps and they were great. So I can only really attest to the Astrapi and the HA-2. But it looks like the E18K would be a perfect "in-between" of those two (though it's really much closer to the HA-2). The HA-2 is said to sound a little better from reviews I've read, so up to you if you wanna pay extra for that. If you wanted to go higher than that, I could suggest 1 or 2, but I cannot attest to them being better since I never tried them (the CO I did of course, but again, I personally didn't think it sounded any different at all). 
 
Update: You can actually get the E18K (if interested) here on Massdrop for about $5 cheaper, but you must buy it by the end of the day on 1/27 or 1/28. Not sure though on Massdrop's return policy (or if they even have one), so if you are interested, I'd e-mail them ASAP and ask before buying. 
 
Thank you again for the kind compliments. It took a lot of time, question-asking, patience, and persistence to learn what I know now, but knowing it as not only saved me money, but made music-listening more fun for me than it EVER really was before. As much as I love listening to music off speakers, it just doesn't sound as great as it does on headphones. And when you have NO weak links....... great quality song files/sources, a solid amp/DAC, and awesome headphones........ the results can be spectacular!

 

[RockStar2005]

samuelboy, 
 
That is interesting, and I've heard that before about the 598 vs. the 598SE. I think both look nice, but I think I'd prefer the sound quality of the 598SE. I also prefer its looks too, but that's just me. I think the 598 looks really cool too. Definitely more unique! If I was more into open-back headphones, I'd probably try it out. I'd definitely recommend it to people who asked me what to get if they wanted great but inexpensive open-backs. 
 
Thanks for sharing about the sound signatures! I'm sure many will find that useful. When I had the 598, my main reason for returning it was I found it to be a bit uncomfortable on the sides (a bit too much clamping for my tastes), though I had my father and cousin try them on, and they felt the 598 was very comfortable. So I dunno. Hopefully you guys don't feel the same way as I did. lol 

 

[RockStar2005]

samuelboy, 
 
Regarding both headphones, which one would you say isolates the bass the best? Or do they both qualify?
 
Also, which one has the wider/more spacious soundstage? 
 
P.S. What does "further" mean? 
 
 
Thanks!

 

[Tassie Devil]

Another 2c from here.
 
Comfort is a very personal and subjective issue but I must say I find them very comfortable.  The 650s were a bit too clamped down on my head at first but a stretch of the band fixed that.  I've never had to adjust the adjust the 598s.  My wife tried out all headphones here (except the 800's as they are balanced) and said she preferred the AKG 702s, so there you go!
 
One aspect of the 598s I've not seen reference to here is their good sensitivity - better than the 650 and the difference in AQ depends more on the AQ of the source rather than the reproducing power of the headphones.  IMHO that is an important plus for the 598s as it avoids the complication of a portable head amp.  The 650s are borderline.
 
BTW all the above refers to the excellent AQ ex a Sony A17, a player I'm so impressed with I'm getting a (pink) A25 for my wife!!
 
John

 

[RockStar2005]

Hi John, 
 
I agree, it is subjective. As I said, my father and cousin thought the 598 was very comfortable, but I couldn't pretend they were for me after about a month, so I returned them really for that reason alone. I had no idea what closed or open-back even meant back then. lol 
 
I'm going to look into those 702 headphones. Not so much for me but for suggesting to other people. Have you tried the K702 vs. the Q701? If so, thoughts? (Like which one is more spacious and/or has a deeper soundstage? Which one is better overall for say, rock music?) 
 
I see what you mean. I used to not use an amp, but now my opinion is very different on that topic. I would never go back not using one again. I actually now use an amp/DAC in b/t my smartphone and headphones, the Oppo HA-2. Love it!!!! 
 
Oh, I'm very familiar with the A17! I had it in silver for several months last year. I loved it so much I even started a thread on here which still gets new hits on it. Please feel free to read through it. I have suggestions for the improving the sound on there too. Main things I mentioned about that were to turn off the extra sound stuff like ClearAudio+, DSEE HX, surround sound, Clear Bass, etc. They only worsen the SQ. Only change I suggest to make or enable is to choose a custom EQ.........set all levels to "0" EXCEPT the 2.5kHz EQ band (middle one)........... raise that up 2 notches. I discovered that doing so gives more added weight to the vocals AND gives more punch to the drums, without sacrificing ANY sound quality. Mick Fleetwood's drums never SOUNDED so good (esp in Hi-Res)! lol
 
Very cool! It really is a great player! I just decided I'd rather play from my phone than from a dedicated device, but that was just a personal choice for me. If I hadn't decided that, I'd very likely STILL be using the A17 today. Oh, and if you're looking for a good clear case for yourself or your wife, I suggest this one which I bought for myself back then. Very nice case. Custom-made for the Sony Walkmans. 

 

[Tassie Devil]

  Hi John, 
 
I agree, it is subjective. As I said, my father and cousin thought the 598 was very comfortable, but I couldn't pretend they were for me after about a month, so I returned them really for that reason alone. I had no idea what closed or open-back even meant back then. lol 
 
I'm going to look into those 702 headphones. Not so much for me but for suggesting to other people. Have you tried the K702 vs. the Q701? If so, thoughts? (Like which one is more spacious and/or has a deeper soundstage? Which one is better overall for say, rock music?) 
 
I see what you mean. I used to not use an amp, but now my opinion is very different on that topic. I would never go back not using one again. I actually now use an amp/DAC in b/t my smartphone and headphones, the Oppo HA-2. Love it!!!! 
 
Oh, I'm very familiar with the A17! I had it in silver for several months last year. I loved it so much I even started a thread on here which still gets new hits on it. Please feel free to read through it. I have suggestions for the improving the sound on there too. Main things I mentioned about that were to turn off the extra sound stuff like ClearAudio+, DSEE HX, surround sound, Clear Bass, etc. They only worsen the SQ. Only change I suggest to make or enable is to choose a custom EQ.........set all levels to "0" EXCEPT the 2.5kHz EQ band (middle one)........... raise that up 2 notches. I discovered that doing so gives more added weight to the vocals AND gives more punch to the drums, without sacrificing ANY sound quality. Mick Fleetwood's drums never SOUNDED so good (esp in Hi-Res)! lol
 
Very cool! It really is a great player! I just decided I'd rather play from my phone than from a dedicated device, but that was just a personal choice for me. If I hadn't decided that, I'd very likely STILL be using the A17 today. Oh, and if you're looking for a good clear case for yourself or your wife, I suggest this one which I bought for myself back then. Very nice case. Custom-made for the Sony Walkmans. 

Interesting reply thanks.
 
Yes the custom setting is what is on my A17 and also on one for my friend's A25 (purchased on my recommendation).  However at our senior ages the setting has been for increase in the treble.
 
Sorry but I cannot comment on the suitability of the 702s for rock as all my listening is classical.  My only comment would be that the resulting AQ is heavily dependent on the AQ of the input from the player and the original AQ of the album.  Many pop albums have compression and boosted bass so it can be a bit of a lottery!  I often feel criticism of gear, headphones included, is based on mediocre input so can be misleading.  GIGO applies, particularly for good headphones which faithfully reproduce what is fed in.
 
John

 

[RockStar2005]

John, 
 
YW!
 
Well to me (I'm 38) I felt that the EQ settings were all fine, but boosting the mid-EQ band up 2 notches seemed to open up the sound even more. You could always try it if you want and if you don't like it, just set it back to 0. Everyone who has tried it out from my A17 thread seemed to take to it well. 
 
That's ok. I appreciate your input so far nonetheless. 
 
Oh well, I'm DEFINITELY with you there! My reason for even getting into all this stuff was BECAUSE of Hi-Res music. Before 15 mos ago, I was using $30 V-Moda earphones and thought I was cool. lol I didn't care at all about headphones. Now I know better......... A LOT better. I still listen to mp3s but I would say that's usually what I listen to least. The rest is CD-Quality, but mostly Hi-Res including DSD. Hi-Res was truly the catalyst to a better world for me. I really do hate how CDs and especially mp3s are made to be too loud and also compressed. It really sucks, though a properly formatted 320 kbps mp3 can still sound pretty good, but never great. 
 
Thanks again!

 

[samuelboy]

  samuelboy, 
 
Regarding both headphones, which one would you say isolates the bass the best? Or do they both qualify?
 
Also, which one has the wider/more spacious soundstage? 
 
P.S. What does "further" mean? 
 
 
Thanks!

What do you mean by isolating the bass?
 
By "further" I was referring to the staging. 598 appears to be just in front you at your face, whereas 598SE seems to have entered into your head. Or maybe... they are just about the same and the fuller body is affecting the perception.

 
I think both have similar width, just that the above may affect the perception, where the SE could be perceived as more closed-in.

 

[RockStar2005]

Sam, 
 
By isolating the bass I mean that there's a separation of instruments, i.e. the bass DOESN'T muddy up the mids (vocals) and treble (guitars, etc). Since you said the 598SE is "thicker/bolder around the mid-bass region", I just wanted to confirm that its controlled and there's no spillage. 
 
Hmm ok. So overall I guess the 598SE still wins. 
 
Thanks!

 

[Bansaku]

   
 
Oh well, I'm DEFINITELY with you there! My reason for even getting into all this stuff was BECAUSE of Hi-Res music. Before 15 mos ago, I was using $30 V-Moda earphones and thought I was cool. lol I didn't care at all about headphones. Now I know better......... A LOT better. 
 
 

 
Once you hear it, there is no going back. I went from sub-$100 V-shaped headphones, which I thought was fine, to longing for the perfect desktop setup. Everything went downhill (for the better) once I got my HD598s.  

 

[RockStar2005]

Bansaku,

I hear that! Though I didn't keep my 598s, they definitely opened my eyes AND ears forever.

 

[LazyListener]

  Thanks for your confirmation! I actually prefer the 598, for the se, the treble sounds a bit harsh and hissy sometimes. 

I agree.

 

[LazyListener]

@RockStar2005 dude in all seriousness and honesty, you will not hear a difference between the cable. It's practically physically impossible, given what people may say. Just plug in whatever cable you need and enjoy them, you won't think "Wow, dude if only I used the other cable" or "Man, I'd kill for a pure silver cable on these babies" seriously, maybe the Cu vs Ag would make a sonic difference but that's beyond my knowledge and current experience.

All in all, if your cable isn't rekt you won't hear any difference. I switch between the Sennheiser 1.2m, 3m and a V-moda boompro cable and can't discern a single audible difference between them all. That being said, they're all HQ cables.

I don't know about OFC vs non-OFC vs silver or other material, but I'm pretty sure I heard a difference between the short cable that comes with the SE and the long cable.  The short cable made the music sound thinner/brighter and less spacious.  The long cable made the music sound fuller, smoother, and more spacious.  The differences were subtle but noticeable.  Due to how subtle they were, I could understand how some listeners may not pick up on the differences.  I do believe the design, quality, material, and construction of the cable can affect sound quality.

 

[LazyListener]

  "Hearing a difference" does not mean that the audio being heard is necessarily better.  In my 80 year old "wisdom" I fear that this is a trap often fallen into by audiophiles.  And yes, been there, done that.
 
If anyone is concentrating on the audio quality rather than really listening to the music, then a different sound is a revelation and is frequently misinterpreted as being better.  Boredom with the same sound and hearing a new sound is greeted with enthusiastic claims of another step towards audio Nirvana when it is actually a step sideways rather than forward.  Add in the placebo affect and you have a source of ever ending income for cord and equipment manufacturers.  If they can produce a different sound (it does not have to be better, just not worse) then they will suck in buyers.
 
But then maybe I'm getting too cynical in old age?

Yes, "better" is subjective, but just because I hear something new or different does not mean that I will automatically think it's better.  I may think it's worse.