[MINORISUKE]

Somebody else may reply. Note that LKS does not support the synchronous mode.
Unless you are interested in this mode, a dual chip model seems to be more attractive in general.

 

[davveswe]

What is the benefit using dual chips?

 

[project86]

This is not a comparison of clocks.
The jitter reducer is a default function on the chip that already exists. If ON had been always beneficial. there would have been no ON-OFF switch.

Agreed.

Across the board with various DACs, running ESS and AKM chips, I find that jitter reduction options can be variable based on transport quality. Leave them on when using a standard CD player or laptop as transport. When paired with an excellent music server, high-end dedicated CD transport, or quality USB to SPDIF converter, disabling jitter reduction usually pays off.

 

[project86]

What is the benefit using dual chips?

Consider a more traditional chip like PCM1792 or Wolfson WM8740. These are stereo DACs. Running two of them allows dual mono operation, summing each chip to handle a single channel for superior performance (SNR, etc).

The top ESS Sabre chips are generally 8 channel designs. So a single ES9018 or ES9028 Pro has 8 channels on board. Many designers take those and sum them into "quad mono" mode, so stereo output gets 4 channels each. This sort of stacking offers similar improvement as it does with PCM1792 et al.

At some point we reach critical mass where more doesn't necessarily equal better. Some argue that a single 8-channel chip is already plenty. Others obviously choose to run two of them for a total of 16 channels or 8 each in stereo. Me? I think the overall design matters more than the number of DAC chips.

 

[JeffMann]

Agreed.

Across the board with various DACs, running ESS and AKM chips, I find that jitter reduction options can be variable based on transport quality. Leave them on when using a standard CD player or laptop as transport. When paired with an excellent music server, high-end dedicated CD transport, or quality USB to SPDIF converter, disabling jitter reduction usually pays off.

I connect my PS Audio PWT CD-transport to my Matrix-X Sabre Pro using a HDMI cable (i2s connection) and I set the DAC to synchronous mode. My headphone-based audio system sounds significantly better when I set the jitter reduction switch to the "on" position (rather than disabled). Is there a rational explanation for that fact?

Second question - am I correct to assume that I will not benefit by purchasing the X-SPDIF 2 device if the PS Audio PWT is my only sound source?

Jeff.

 

[MINORISUKE]

.....
Is there a rational explanation for that fact?

Second question - am I correct to assume that I will not benefit by purchasing the X-SPDIF 2 device if the PS Audio PWT is my only sound source?
.....

(1) Yes, because your PWT cannot make the ES9038PRO run in the synchronous mode defined in the datasheet. I am not sure if there is any MCLK output from PWT. Even if there is, I do not think it is variable and equal to 128fs. Setting X-Sabre PRO in sync mode and making the ES9038PRO chip run in the synchronous mode are not identical.
Setting the jitter reducer disabled may be beneficial only for the synchronous mode correctly set to the ES9038PRO chip.
(2) Yes, you are correct. No benefit at all.

FYI:
There is a DIY board called the 128fs MCLK generator in the Japanese market. Its developer may make a special box for your PWT so that you can enjoy the genuine synchronous mode. In Japanese only.
http://toukiyakoneko.web.fc2.com/128fs_MCLK_Generator-V1.0.0.pdf

P.S.: I contacted this developer. The 128fs MCLK generator alone is not recommended, and it should be used with his Digital Audio Signal Conditioner (= jitter cleaner), about some components of which he is not sure whether they are export controlled items. This means the chance for taking a special order from outside of Japan is low.

 

[JeffMann]

(1) Yes, because your PWT cannot make the ES9038PRO run in the synchronous mode defined in the datasheet. I am not sure if there is any MCLK output from PWT. Even if there is, I do not think it is variable and equal to 128fs. Setting X-Sabre PRO in sync mode and making the ES9038PRO chip run in the synchronous mode are not identical.
Setting the jitter reducer disabled may be beneficial only for the synchronous mode correctly set to the ES9038PRO chip.
(2) Yes, you are correct. No benefit at all.

FYI:
There is a DIY board called the 128fs MCLK generator in the Japanese market. Its developer may make a special box for your PWT so that you can enjoy the genuine synchronous mode. In Japanese only.
http://toukiyakoneko.web.fc2.com/128fs_MCLK_Generator-V1.0.0.pdf

P.S.: I contacted this developer. The 128fs MCLK generator alone is not recommended, and it should be used with his Digital Audio Signal Conditioner (= jitter cleaner), about some components of which he is not sure whether they are export controlled items. This means the chance for taking a special order from outside of Japan is low.

I am confused. You say that my PS Audio PWT cannot make the ES9038Pro run in synchronous mode. Does that mean that there is no advantage to selecting "synchronous" rather than "asynchronous" when connecting my PWT to the Matrix X-Sabre Pro with a HDMI cable (I2s connection)? Then, what is the advantage of using the I2s connection?

Jeff.

 

[MINORISUKE]

It is not permitted to disclose how the ESS datasheet defines the synchronous mode.
Ask the dealer you have purchased yours from, or Matrix Audio directly for further details.
The only disclosed information is on page 9 in X-SPDIF 2 manual.
The MCLK output of your PWT, if there is any, must be exactly the same as stated there as "switch position ON," which is very unlikely the case.

 

[JeffMann]

It is not permitted to disclose how the ESS datasheet defines the synchronous mode.
Ask the dealer you have purchased yours from, or Matrix Audio directly for further details.
The only disclosed information is on page 9 in X-SPDIF 2 manual.
The MCLK output of your PWT, if there is any, must be exactly the same as stated there as "switch position ON," which is very unlikely the case.

Whew! I cannot really understand what you are implying.

I looked at the table on page 9 of the x-SPDIF manual and it states that the MCK = 128fs when the switch is "on". That is apparently the required value the ESS9038Pro chip needs in order for the chip to work correctly in synchronous mode (according to your previous post). If my PWT's masterclock does not operate at that 128fs value, then couldn't I place a Matrix X-SPDIF unit between my PS Audio PWT and my Matrix X-Sabre Pro. Then, if I use the "on" switch on the Matrix X-SPDIF unit, it should output a 128fs signal to my Matrix X-Sabre Pro if I connect the two units using a hdmi cable. Will it then properly interact with the ESS9038Pro chip if I then select the synchronous mode setting on my Matrix X-Sabre Pro?

 

[project86]

You may be overthinking things here. Obviously, use whatever settings sound best to you, regardless of any technical aspects or suggestions etc.

That said, my personal experience with the PWT is that it sounds best with jitter-reduction disabled. This would be via AES/EBU out connected to a Yulong DA9, as well as I2S out paired with the Wyred 4 Sound Anniversary DAC. In contrast, both DACs sound better with jitter reduction turned on when fed by a basic Oppo BDP-93.

I can't say this applies to every DAC out there.... just my experience with those two. The X-Sabre Pro is a different model and may behave differently, with or without the SYNC option enabled.

 

[MINORISUKE]

.....
If my PWT's masterclock does not operate at that 128fs value, then couldn't I place a Matrix X-SPDIF unit between my PS Audio PWT and my Matrix X-Sabre Pro. Then, if I use the "on" switch on the Matrix X-SPDIF unit, it should output a 128fs signal to my Matrix X-Sabre Pro if I connect the two units using a hdmi cable. Will it then properly interact with the ESS9038Pro chip if I then select the synchronous mode setting on my Matrix X-Sabre Pro?

No, as there is no USB output on your PWT.
The condition is very simple, but almost inpractical to fulfill. You need 44.1kHz x128 for MCLK input for X-Sabre PRO to play CDs in the synchronous mode.

 

[JeffMann]

No, as there is no USB output on your PWT.
The condition is very simple, but almost inpractical to fulfill. You need 44.1kHz x128 for MCLK input for X-Sabre PRO to play CDs in the synchronous mode.

Thank you for the information. It is frustrating to discover that my X-Sabre cannot be used in synchronous mode when playing CDs with my PS Audio PWT. Matrix should have made this information available to potential buyers who specifically wanted to connect their CD-player to the DAC using the I2s connection.

Jeff.

 

[MINORISUKE]

I was also one of those who had believed, and had no doubt in connection with SU-1.

 

[MINORISUKE]

In the manual of X-Sabre PRO (page 13), there is a clear statement.
The IIS input requires MCLK when in synchronous mode, the MCLK should equal 128FS when the input sample rate is 384kHz or below, when the input sample rate is above the 384kHz, MCLK should equal 64FS.

.....
Matrix should have made this information available to potential buyers who specifically wanted to connect their CD-player to the DAC using the I2s connection.

It is the user's fault not having read the manual thoroughly (including myself).

 

[JeffMann]

In the manual of X-Sabre PRO (page 13), there is a clear statement.
The IIS input requires MCLK when in synchronous mode, the MCLK should equal 128FS when the input sample rate is 384kHz or below, when the input sample rate is above the 384kHz, MCLK should equal 64FS.


It is the user's fault not having read the manual thoroughly (including myself).

I previously read that statement in the manual, but I didn't understand what it meant. Thanks to you, I now understand the implications of that statement. Matrix should have provided more explanatory details in their manual and they shouldn't have presumed that every owner is electronically-sophisticated.

Jeff.