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Massdrop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC: A Discrete Resistor Ladder DAC For $350

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by jude, Jun 4, 2018.
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  1. maximus69
    Exactly...enough already...lets mot bring the massdrop hysteria here :)
     
    PopZeus and Odin412 like this.
  2. sosolar
    Hi there, I am original author of hibiki r2r.
    We have done so much version of that board, and sell them on taobao. There is no question why they get our board.
    The point is, we spent 3 years on developing on r2r, and finally got that verion.
    The first one is not sign-magnitude architecture showed on Wenzhou small exhibition.
    The second verison is still non sign-magnitude, but uograded sulzer-like regulator(i.e. ref+op+buf), that sound quite good already, showed on Shenzhen small hifi-show.
    The third version is a huge change that import true sign-magnitude arch, with splited ground plane(i.e. left and right when decoding, and join them at next stage which can prevent some high freq noise) and even more auiet power supply(we tested it is well below -110db@100hz, -140db@1k and further).
    The fourth version is just adding the led to show working condition.

    In analog LPF part, there are variant version of combination, very interesting.
    Version1 is 5534 for buffer, impedence is much lower that wont affect the performance(freq cornor) of next lpf stage. The second stage is NJM2114 for two channel's filtering. Finally, a LT1128 for signal combining(because sign-magnitude has a hugh problem that its output is containing DC of 1/2 VCC, we must get rid of it) and also act as a lpf. All two stage of lpf is bessel-like LPF with 40k cut-off. This is the version for sell.
    Version2 is BUF634 + NJM2114 + AD797 with 80k cut-off. (Please believe your eye, 80k sounds 3 way better than that with 20k bandwidth)
    Version3 is my favourite version NJM5534 + NJM2114 + AD8597 with 80k cut-off. Accurate, fast, emotional.

    In my original design, we use silmic2 for 'board power tank', as it produces quite nice sound stage.

    Feel free ask me more detail about this arch including phase splitter as well as CPLD decoding part. Because I dont think they will provide any more detail than me.
     
    Maxx134, BLacklWf, VandyMan and 13 others like this.
  3. bunkbail
    @sosolar My only question is that why the strkingly similar pcb layout is being used? Does someone leaked the gerber files to the highest bidder?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  4. sosolar
    deafdoorknob likes this.
  5. bunkbail
  6. baiyy1986
    I think this is one of the posts
    http://bbs.hifidiy.net/thread-1149252-1-1.html
    I am an MD fan but I would be very disappointed about MD if they launch this drop.
    If someone got copied they would know what kind of feeling is that.
    This is other's Intellectual property. Please find a perfect solution.
    Thanks.
     
    elira likes this.
  7. SamusAran
    I totally understand the reasoning here, but I don't think anyone has proven that MD copied the tech. I think the burden should be on the claimant party that MD copied rather than on MD to show that they didn't. Especially with the drop only hours away, if they really did spend years developing this DAC (which, at this point, I don't have sufficient reason to believe that they didn't), suspending the drop would be a massive upset for the team that worked hard to put it together (again, assuming that MD and Airist is being honest). But if the tech was in actually copied/stolen, then yes, I agree 100%. Just really hope they didn't since I've been waiting for this drop for months!
     
    keyonman likes this.
  8. sosolar
    Exactly
     
  9. bunkbail
    Whoa, that's so scary. I could never imagine I would see the day that someone would reverse engineer a CPLD/FPGA for audio use. Well, it is just a matter of time until we get to see a Chinese knockoff of the Chord Mojo :ksc75smile:.
     
  10. sosolar
    Artix7 hacking requires quite a hign price but it is not unbreakable. For example, Hydra-z and amanero has been fully copied including code inside chips. What a shameful market in China. Anyway, we still have quite nice original developers like holoaudio's Jeff, Singxer' Leter who make good products for us.
     
    volly and bunkbail like this.
  11. elira
    I think it's evident that it's the same board just in a different color. The software in the CPLD/FPGA is another history, no way to know if it's the same or a different one, but if Airist is claiming they didn't copy the board (which is evident) then it's uncertain if they also copied the CPLD/FPGA. Probably they would say that there're little ways to code it, and then suddenly the code is the same...
     
  12. D2Girls
    Extremely unlikely that airist copied the fgpa programming also correct me if I'm wrong but clones aren't illegal are they?
     
  13. bunkbail
    The chip on the Hibiki DAC and RDAC is a CPLD which is a few orders of magnitude less complex than an FPGA (that's an exaggeration, but you get the drift). It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they go that route, as you can tell already with the exact pcb design they copied.
    What you're on about? Copyright protection and intellectual property theft are not a thing in your country?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  14. D2Girls
    I don't think my government really cares about seizing clones or fakes of stuff but yeah you are right clones are illegal.
     
    bunkbail likes this.
  15. FrostyP
    Circuit schematics aren't pretected by US copyright law. Look up the lawsuits against Behringer
     
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