[coinmaster]

I've almost reached the summit of what I can do with headphones.
After hearing a low-fi speaker system at someones house I realized that a high end speaker set-up could potentially make it sound like the band is in the room with you.
 
I hear electrostats do this best, along with everything else other than bass.
 
So I've been looking at the Martin Logan hybrid speakers.
 
The Montis speakers are where I'd want to be but that price tag will take a while.
Would I regret it if I started with the electromotion series? How big of a difference is it between the electromotion and the montis?

 

[goodvibes]

Not a fan of any logins.

 

[coinmaster]

Helpful comment of the year award^^^

 

[obobskivich]

Logans are pretty placement sensitive - if set-up right they can sound good, but if not, they can sound awful. So you really have to consider where in your home/office/whatever they're going to fit, and be willing to spend some time messing around with setting them up ideally. Sound-wise, the ElectroMotion are fine sounding - they're an improvement over older, higher-price Logans (they have a product history on their website, or at least did at one point), and can be a very enjoyable listen. But again, interaction with the room is a *big* deal for speakers, especially speakers like the MLs. You also have to consider amplification for 'stats or other speakers likely to have very low impedance drops.

Overall I'd say demo them yourself if possible, but remember that room interaction and placement is a big deal when getting into speakers. What sounds best at the dealer may not sound best at your home/office/whatever, and vice versa. But if you can listen to Montis and EM side-by-side it'd at least give you a better idea of what you're getting into.

 

[yage]

I've only heard MartinLogan speakers in a Best Buy on two separate occasions. Both times I felt that the integration between the dynamic bass driver and panel was less than ideal. The bass seemed to run along the floor, disconnected from the midrange and treble. There are plenty of non-electrostatic and non-planar speakers that image well so don't restrict yourself to what you've read "works best."

 

[coinmaster]

You sure it wasn't just the fact you were listening to them in a best buy instead of a proper accoustic set-up?

 

[yage]

Well,

  You sure it wasn't just the fact you were listening to them in a best buy instead of a proper accoustic set-up?

 
Well, it was in one of the Magnolia demo rooms, so it was a decent set up. The chair might have been too low, though. Still, have a listen and then audition other speakers. You might be surprised at what you end up buying.

 

[obobskivich]

You sure it wasn't just the fact you were listening to them in a best buy instead of a proper accoustic set-up?

I'd be inclined to question this as well. I'm not saying Logans are the best speakers in the world, but as I said, they're largely placement-dependent. Stacked-in on top of a dozen or more pairs of other speakers, TVs, etc is generally not great for any speaker, especially not a planar dipole. I would agree that there are other speakers worth considering though, because again, Logans aren't the hands-down best thing in the world - they're just one of many options.

 

[yage]

I'd be inclined to question this as well. I'm not saying Logans are the best speakers in the world, but as I said, they're largely placement-dependent. Stacked-in on top of a dozen or more pairs of other speakers, TVs, etc is generally not great for any speaker, especially not a planar dipole. I would agree that there are other speakers worth considering though, because again, Logans aren't the hands-down best thing in the world - they're just one of many options.

 
They weren't stacked in a room with dozens of other speakers. These were in a room with the B&W Diamond 802's on the short wall and the ML's on the long wall.

 

[obobskivich]

They weren't stacked in a room with dozens of other speakers. These were in a room with the B&W Diamond 802's on the short wall and the ML's on the long wall.

That sounds unlike any Magnolia or Best Buy I've ever been in, it sounds decidedly better. Also if you say you liked the 802s better we're going to have to agree to disagree on a great many things - this isn't meant to sound ominous its just reality. Different strokes and all that.

 

[yage]

That sounds unlike any Magnolia or Best Buy I've ever been in, it sounds decidedly better. Also if you say you liked the 802s better we're going to have to agree to disagree on a great many things - this isn't meant to sound ominous its just reality. Different strokes and all that.

 
The Magnolia in the Best Buys around my area follow a predictable layout. The main area has the upscale TV's, a small headphone / desktop audio section, and AudioQuest cabling on a wall. There are three other rooms - a home cinema (complete with simulated night sky), the wall o' speakers / receivers room (probably what you're thinking about), and a high-end room with B&W, MartinLogan, and Sonus faber on three of the walls, usually driven by McIntosh electronics. The salespeople also set up a MartinLogan / McIntosh system at the entrance to the Magnolia section in order to lure customers in. It's a nice floor plan and I like seeing at least some space devoted mainly to audio.
 
I've never really heard the Diamond's, though they're nice to look at - quite a bit out of my price range.

 

[crazychile]

  Edit..... I felt that the integration between the dynamic bass driver and panel was less than ideal. .....

 
Yes. I've been saying this for years. The setup and room makes a difference but even under the best of conditions, the ML stats sound like a panel +subwoofer to me. 
 
Which is why when anyone mentions they are considering a pair of MLs, I recommend listening to a pair of Magneplanars before they buy. While not an electrostatic, there are a lot of sonic similarities and I feel they are overall a much better value.

 

[yage]

   
Yes. I've been saying this for years. The setup and room makes a difference but even under the best of conditions, the ML stats sound like a panel +subwoofer to me. 
 
Which is why when anyone mentions they are considering a pair of MLs, I recommend listening to a pair of Magneplanars before they buy. While not an electrostatic, there are a lot of sonic similarities and I feel they are overall a much better value.

 
I agree that Magnepan should be on the short list when interested in ML's. I briefly heard their new 3.7i at a dealer showroom a few months ago and was very impressed. Hopefully the 1.7's are smaller, 'cause the 3.7i's were positively ginormous!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Well,
 
Well, it was in one of the Magnolia demo rooms, so it was a decent set up. The chair might have been too low, though. Still, have a listen and then audition other speakers. You might be surprised at what you end up buying.

 

A higher chair wouldn't help much, the problem there is if the sub is too loud vs the electrostat panel. This is a lot less of a problem with dynamic drivers using large subdrivers in the cabinet for one reason: they can put that driver much higher up, and angle them as well. As much as low freqs are omnidirectional that can also mean you get a lot of it going to and reflecting off the floor, or simply vibrating the floor and affecting the psychoacoustic perception of where the bass is coming from. This makes the ML's more placement and room sensitive - if that room doesn't have enough carpeting and reflection-absorbing panels even on the floor, plus the people there have no idea how to position them properly, they're not going to sound consistent. Some slimmer towers that rely on multiple 6in to 7in drivers also sound muddy and the bass seemingly separate from everything else, most notably one PSB, everywhere I listened to it, until I listened to a set-up at the local HiFi show which the distributor set up and it was nothing like in any of the dealers that I heard it in.
 
Here's an example of one with angled bass drivers:
 
 
 

 
 
Magnepan's bass panels can be positioned separately from the mains, this way you have flexibility in dealing with room modes. You can put them up on a platform if all else fails.

 

[obobskivich]

Just to note, on all of the modern MLs the LF driver is also slightly angled in the cabinet.