[earwicker7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do suffer with mental health issues. I've been diagnosed with depression, for some 3 years now. Sad part is I feel exactly how I've felt the rest of my life. I've been on the waiting list to see a psychiatrist through the NHS for the last 10 months, and I'm still months away from doing so. I also suffer badly with insomnia, and infrequent episodes of panic attacks.

Dude, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings... having a bi-polar person in the family (there's a lot of genetics involved) and presenting with the symptoms you have, if I were your therapist I'd be worried that you might be Bi-Polar Type 2

.

I wouldn't take my word as gospel by any means; I'm not even close to being a practicing therapist. However, I do have a degree in psychology and I know the symptoms pretty well from personal experience in being misdiagnosed as unipolar. People with unipolar depression are less likely to suffer from major insomnia (although it's not unheard of by any means); it's a classic tip off that Type 2 may be involved (and something my first four therapists neglected to recognize

).

When you say "bad" insomnia, are you talking about not getting to sleep for a couple of hours or barely sleeping for three or four days straight? If it's the latter, I'd consider getting a second opinion on the depression diagnosis. Unipolar depression is extremely over-diagnosed when the therapist isn't on their toes and constantly asking probing questions. The major danger is that anti-depressants by themselves (without mood stabilizers) can seriously exacerbate bi-polar symptoms; they only "boost" your mood, which tends to increase the severity of hypomanic episodes. Imagine your mood is a sine wave; you want your mood to be in the "zero" range or close to it. Bi-Polar Type 2 sufferers present with periods that are usually too far in the "negative" (depressed) area and occasionally too far in the "positive" (hypomanic) area. Unfortunately, since the hypomania typically isn't overwhelming (requiring hospitalization), people usually only present during depressed periods (many people enjoy the hypomania) which often results in misdiagnosis as unipolar given our HMO run "get it done in three visits" culture. Anti-depressants boost your mood so that you're typically in the zero range, which is good; however, this boost also occurs during hypomanic episodes, which pushes you way too far into the positive area, making your hypomania closer to full blown mania. What a bi-polar sufferer needs is a mood stabilizer, which is analogous to audio compression... it decreases both the manic "peaks" and depressed valleys.

Anyways, this is just a gut feeling, and I might be dead wrong. But it's something to think about. If I'm (unfortunately) correct, there is a silver lining... Type 2 is considered one of the easiest mental disorders to keep under control. Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) and Seroquel (an anti-psychotic) will often turn around people's lives; I was utterly miserable when I was misdiagnosed as unipolar and on anti-depressants. My life right now is pretty damn good; not perfect, but I'm generally pretty happy.

Hope this helps instead of bumming you out

.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...aren't those who are diagnosed with it. It's the people around them.

This is actually one of the most offensive posts I've ever seen on Head-Fi. You have experience with one (perhaps more...) people with manic depression, that doesn't make you an expert on all people with manic depression. The best advice I have for you outside of how to interact with your sister, is take statistics and learn that 'your' experience doesn't necessarily reflect general truths.

 

[philodox]

aaron313 - It seems to me that you are looking too hard for 'manic symptoms'. Sometimes people with spending problems are just that. We live in a materialistic society where this problem is becoming more prevalent. I know lots of people that are terrible with money and show no signs of bipolar disorder. Personally, when I was manic, spending was not the issue. I can see how it commonly would be, but I don't think it should necissarily be tied to the illness. Being bipolar definately has an effect on my personality, but it is not my one defining characteristic. I'd say if anything, the experiences that came from it and learning from them had a greater impact on me as a person than any day to day chemical imbalance. I would be a very different, and I think for the worse, person if I hadn't had to deal with bipolar disorder. Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is actually one of the most offensive posts I've ever seen on Head-Fi. You have experience with one (perhaps more...) people with manic depression, that doesn't make you an expert on all people with manic depression.

I guess I'm not the only one who read it that way. Good to know I wasn't completely overreacting and flying off the handle.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im sorry you have to wait so long. Treating mental illness is a big problem in this country. Look how they treat our soldiers coming back from war. My wife calls me the "Pill Nazi".

You know, I was having a conversation with a buddy of mine who's in the Army National Guard and will be getting out in September. He was telling me one of the guys he served with is undergoing a whole bunch of therapy and using lots and lots of medications because of PTSD.

The funny thing? My buddy's unit was tasked with PSD - personal security detail - duty. They basically drove VIPs around in armored Suburbans or Humvees. They once - one single time - came under fire and my buddy said they only took about a half-dozen rounds, and that was it. No injuries, nothing like that.

So, it comes to me that this whole "PTSD" this guy is carrying on about is likely bullsh*t and nothing more than a tool to get attention. Sorry, but there's not exactly that much in Iraq to have PTSD about, especially these days. The notion of handing out Purple Hearts to PTSD "victims" seems a bit out there to me, and evidently also greatly pissed off quite a few active duty guys.

Now, I've had *some* experience with psychology and the human mind. I have a few bookshelves filled with history books on various wars. Both my uncles served two tours in Iraq, one grandfather was a Navy pilot in Korea and Viet Nam, and my other grandfather was a master sergeant in the Air National Guard. My great-grandfather served in WW2 as an engineer, and in Korea. Not a single one of them ever had anything relating to the symptoms of PTSD, and they weren't exactly REMF pogies. My great-grandfather actually lost all the toes on one foot due to frostbite while laying in a field while a Korean patrol was trying to find his squad.

Granted, there are cases where PTSD is truly real, and brought on by some nasty stuff. But I think if you look at statistics, and at the different generations in general, it becomes apparent that the closer you get to today, the more "psychological problems" soldiers have. I know people will probably point and scream for what I'm about to say, but I think one major reason for that is that today, instead of simply manning up and having the balls to face the root of the problem and dismiss it, people are constantly and unendingly told that just about every single problem is "special and important" and can be cured by some type of medication. The simple fact is, most psychological conditions are so minor as to never really be noticeable, and the majority of those that do affect people can be "cured" without any type of therapy or medication. Modern culture is pushing this "everyone is special/medication fixes everything" bullsh*t, and it's quite efficiently destroying any vestiges of willpower that were left over from the 70s and 80s generations.

ADD and depression are two good examples of horribly over-medicated conditions. ADD used to be cured in childhood by spankings when they were necessary, a stern lecture now and again, and some actual exertion of willpower by the person who had it. Same with depression - the stuff people think constitutes a clinical case of depression these days covers such a broad range, it's scary. Hell, most people with "depression" don't even have a good reason to be depressed.

If we could dispense with the "warm and fuzzy" ways of dealing with mental conditions (and no, I don't mean a reversion back to asylums, but forcing the people with the conditions to actually put forth some efforts themselves, and not giving ANY medication unless it's an actual chemical imbalance that can't be corrected without medication), we'd probably see a rapid decline of people with "mental conditions" in the US. That'll never happen, though - having a "mental condition" that "forces" someone to see a psychiatrist every other week, to use medicine to "control the symptoms" and to use said condition as a scapegoat to forego personal responsibility is the trendy thing now. Sort of like how high school and college chicks claiming to have been "raped" or "sexually assaulted" has climbed astronomically in the past few years and where a good 80% of those claims are probably utterly false. Getting drunk at a party and screwing someone you regret having screwed the next morning doesn't classify as "sexual assault" and yes, I've seen girls claim activities like that as such.

/rambling rant

 

[larryminator]

That's an interesting thread, first time I read about it.

I'm about to choose which profession I want to do out of medicine and psychiatry seems to be my first choice for the moment, so I have great interested in it.

It's interesting to see how people talk freely of psychiatric problems here on Head-Fi, I'm impressed, since it's pretty much a taboo subject.

I've been working in psychiatry in the last two months, and after seeing many patients, I must agree that some of them do get some BENEFITS and ATTENTION from their condition and are less inclined to change because of that. I find that psychiatric problems sometimes do get disproportionate and people think they are sickier than they really are. Sometimes by the doctor, sometimes by the family and friends, that do treat the person differently.

I might choose psychiatry as my profession, because I find this profession completely absurd. I cannot understand exactly what's the frontier between mental illness and mental health and that's what makes the beauty of it and the challenge of the profession. How can someone, after a sad event, can become depressive vs someone who would not? Is it really cerebral biochemistry? Do medicaments really work or is it only the placebo effect (though I do believe the medicaments work, placebo or not)? All those questions, in a world of very traditional medicine, in a world where knowledge dictate the procedure, makes the beauty of psychiatry and a lot of opportunity for new discoveries.

You might be Bipolar Type 2 or Type 1, manic depression (or I think we call it Bipolar Mixt episode here), but how did you become ill? Do you think you have the control on it? Could you have not been ill and how? That's the question I find the most interesting. I do think that some people might become Bipolar or Depressive because they do know those illness exist. They identify themself to some symptoms of the disease. In a way we should talk about mental illness, not make it taboo, but in another way, I'm starting to think that it could have an effect on prevalence.

A really nice notion I like in psychiatry is control. I do think that control of thoughts and actions is something mental ill patients lack. I do believe that a part of depression and bipolar illness, or even any other mental illness do reside in control of thoughts and actions. Even thought we don't talk a lot about it.

 

[earwicker7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know, I was having a conversation with a buddy of mine who's in the Army National Guard and will be getting out in September. He was telling me one of the guys he served with is undergoing a whole bunch of therapy and using lots and lots of medications because of PTSD. The funny thing? My buddy's unit was tasked with PSD - personal security detail - duty. They basically drove VIPs around in armored Suburbans or Humvees. They once - one single time - came under fire and my buddy said they only took about a half-dozen rounds, and that was it. No injuries, nothing like that. So, it comes to me that this whole "PTSD" this guy is carrying on about is likely bullsh*t and nothing more than a tool to get attention. Sorry, but there's not exactly that much in Iraq to have PTSD about, especially these days. The notion of handing out Purple Hearts to PTSD "victims" seems a bit out there to me, and evidently also greatly pissed off quite a few active duty guys. Now, I've had *some* experience with psychology and the human mind. I have a few bookshelves filled with history books on various wars. Both my uncles served two tours in Iraq, one grandfather was a Navy pilot in Korea and Viet Nam, and my other grandfather was a master sergeant in the Air National Guard. My great-grandfather served in WW2 as an engineer, and in Korea. Not a single one of them ever had anything relating to the symptoms of PTSD, and they weren't exactly REMF pogies. My great-grandfather actually lost all the toes on one foot due to frostbite while laying in a field while a Korean patrol was trying to find his squad. Granted, there are cases where PTSD is truly real, and brought on by some nasty stuff. But I think if you look at statistics, and at the different generations in general, it becomes apparent that the closer you get to today, the more "psychological problems" soldiers have. I know people will probably point and scream for what I'm about to say, but I think one major reason for that is that today, instead of simply manning up and having the balls to face the root of the problem and dismiss it, people are constantly and unendingly told that just about every single problem is "special and important" and can be cured by some type of medication. The simple fact is, most psychological conditions are so minor as to never really be noticeable, and the majority of those that do affect people can be "cured" without any type of therapy or medication. Modern culture is pushing this "everyone is special/medication fixes everything" bullsh*t, and it's quite efficiently destroying any vestiges of willpower that were left over from the 70s and 80s generations. ADD and depression are two good examples of horribly over-medicated conditions. ADD used to be cured in childhood by spankings when they were necessary, a stern lecture now and again, and some actual exertion of willpower by the person who had it. Same with depression - the stuff people think constitutes a clinical case of depression these days covers such a broad range, it's scary. Hell, most people with "depression" don't even have a good reason to be depressed. If we could dispense with the "warm and fuzzy" ways of dealing with mental conditions (and no, I don't mean a reversion back to asylums, but forcing the people with the conditions to actually put forth some efforts themselves, and not giving ANY medication unless it's an actual chemical imbalance that can't be corrected without medication), we'd probably see a rapid decline of people with "mental conditions" in the US. That'll never happen, though - having a "mental condition" that "forces" someone to see a psychiatrist every other week, to use medicine to "control the symptoms" and to use said condition as a scapegoat to forego personal responsibility is the trendy thing now. Sort of like how high school and college chicks claiming to have been "raped" or "sexually assaulted" has climbed astronomically in the past few years and where a good 80% of those claims are probably utterly false. Getting drunk at a party and screwing someone you regret having screwed the next morning doesn't classify as "sexual assault" and yes, I've seen girls claim activities like that as such. /rambling rant

How to say this nicely... you're a screwing knuckle dragging neanderthal. Way to go, Captain Clueless! Armchair generals like you need to be thrown out in the field and used for target practice; only about a half-dozen rounds, of course, or you might miss tea time.

 

[philodox]

I think that is a little harsh. He is definitely on the extreme end of the spectrum, but much of what he says has merit. People are coddled more than they have a right to be these days. I'm not usually one to quote Nietzsche, but it is very true that "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."

If you are carried through life on a cushioned dais, spoon fed your meals as well as assurances that nothing is your fault - personal growth becomes rather limited. Too often people look at their differences and see them as disabilities. That is a defeatist attitude and results in someone not living up to their full potential in the interest of being 'safe'.

 

[catscratch]

Well, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's really not my place to judge, but reading the original post, I don't see anything there to indicate manic depression. Just a general lack of responsibility, which is usually cured by falling on hard times, and having to deal with them yourself, rather than relying on others around you. I really doubt antipsychotics would do anything in this case except introduce mental instability which isn't there to begin with.

I can't say it any more nicely, and honestly, but I've been through similar phases in my life. I am ashamed of them. It took some real emotional beatdowns to open my eyes and see how my actions were affecting others around me. And, my situation isn't any different from most people who grew up in middle-class families and were used to some degree of privilege. Now, my general irresponsibility was triggered by a crippling disease during childhood; I couldn't walk between ages 11 and 17 and was pretty much in constant agony. I don't ever remember much below the age of 17 due to all the medications I was loaded with. That set me up nicely to use my condition as a crutch in the early 20s, when it was already manageable, and generally be lazy and irresponsible.

But, social and financial responsibility, and hardship in general, will cure you of that really quickly. And if they don't, chances are you WILL crash and burn at some point, and then learn you lesson. As I did, more than once.

RE DemonicLemming's post:

You should be thankful that you have lived a life in which you've never encountered PTSD. Some of us have families that fought in nearly every war, lost family members to the Holocaust, lived in a totalitarian regime and were political dissidents at the time, and been through more **** than Hollywood can fill a year of movies with.

I agree that the over-medication of ADD and so-called depression is a serious problem, and is only going to be a more serious problem as long-term effects of these medications start to manifest. Nearly every school shooting involved a shooter on SSRIs of some sort. We're treating our children with amphetamines (!!!) while using the "little children" trump card to push the war on drugs, nevermind that the difference between meth and adderal isn't really that major. We've got a huge chunk of population on SSRIs, opiates, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, antipsychotics, whatever we can think of really, and it WILL have serious consequences in the long run, much more than our current obsession with, quite frankly, less dangerous illegal drugs ever could.

But, that doesn't mean that there aren't serious conditions out there that need to be treated, and that you can dismiss every case of someone's suffering just because most people exaggerate theirs.

My friend was in Iraq, as a combat engineer first, and then a squad leader after he went through officer training. He was there during the invasion of Fallujah, and served two tours. He had some serious PTSD and acclimatization issues to deal with.

Now, my health didn't allow me to join the military. So I can't even imagine what he went through, even with all the **** I went through myself.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How to say this nicely... you're a screwing knuckle dragging neanderthal. Way to go, Captain Clueless! Armchair generals like you need to be thrown out in the field and used for target practice; only about a half-dozen rounds, of course, or you might miss tea time.

Do you have any - any - psychological credentials and case-study time with the people in question, or are you just talking out of your ass?

You do realize that there's quite a few cases of PTSD fraud perpetuated by soldiers to get early discharges and disability?

No, you probably didn't. Go back to you fuzzy-wuzzy overmedicated world and enjoy it, because it'll implode sooner or later.

 

[AudioPhewl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is actually one of the most offensive posts I've ever seen on Head-Fi. You have experience with one (perhaps more...) people with manic depression, that doesn't make you an expert on all people with manic depression. The best advice I have for you outside of how to interact with your sister, is take statistics and learn that 'your' experience doesn't necessarily reflect general truths.

I dunno, I must be missing something. I kinda figured that my post was about the situation with my sister, based on my experiences of her. I'd say mostly everyone around her, who cares, would come to a similar conclusion - that her illness, her personality, her problems - it's difficult to know where one stops and the other one starts. But everyone who cares has been to hell and back on many, many occasions.

It's a safe bet to say they've suffered more than she has. Not trying to take away from the fact that she's the one with the condition, but her husband has been to hell and back with her infidelity, with her attitude at times, and blatant game-playing.

As spelt out quite clearly in the original post, it was made immediately after a row with her. It was based on her, and my experiences of her. The multiple times she's been in hospital after overdosing. The months and months where she was utterly intolerable because of her own selfish attitude, and various drug interactions. The mess that follows each time she drinks to absolute excess.

I'd apologise that you've taken offence, but to be honest, I'm offended that you can't see the problems her condition, lifestyle, and selfish attitude have caused for every person around her. To see the look in her fathers eyes, as she overdoses again and again, often with no rational reason. The disbelief in her husbands face as she's been up all night, refusing to take her medication, refusing to give him any assistance whatsoever with the fact that he has to be at work in less than 2 hours time, but has spent the entire night up trying to comfort her, trying to help her find any kind of salvation from her own daemons. The despair that everyone feels when, appointment after appointment, you can tell that she's not given any indication to her psychiatrist that her current life is bordering on hell for everyone else; that the medication doesn't seem to be working; that she drowns herself in alcohol night after night.

But that's okay, eh? It's wrong for anyone to think that those immediately parallel to the person with the condition and problems have any reason to feel less than great... eh?

Not trying to have a dig at you, nor anyone else. But it's bloody naive to sit there and take offence because someone has finally said something about just how hellish it is for everyone involved, not just the person diagnosed.

Happy weekends to everyone, whether times are good or times are bad.

~Phewl.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif RE DemonicLemming's post: You should be thankful that you have lived a life in which you've never encountered PTSD. Some of us have families that fought in nearly every war, lost family members to the Holocaust, lived in a totalitarian regime and were political dissidents at the time, and been through more **** than Hollywood can fill a year of movies with. I agree that the over-medication of ADD and so-called depression is a serious problem, and is only going to be a more serious problem as long-term effects of these medications start to manifest. Nearly every school shooting involved a shooter on SSRIs of some sort. We're treating our children with amphetamines (!!!) while using the "little children" trump card to push the war on drugs, nevermind that the difference between meth and adderal isn't really that major. We've got a huge chunk of population on SSRIs, opiates, benzodiazepines, amphetamines, antipsychotics, whatever we can think of really, and it WILL have serious consequences in the long run, much more than our current obsession with, quite frankly, less dangerous illegal drugs ever could. But, that doesn't mean that there aren't serious conditions out there that need to be treated, and that you can dismiss every case of someone's suffering just because most people exaggerate theirs. My friend was in Iraq, as a combat engineer first, and then a squad leader after he went through officer training. He was there during the invasion of Fallujah, and served two tours. He had some serious PTSD and acclimatization issues to deal with. Now, my health didn't allow me to join the military. So I can't even imagine what he went through, even with all the **** I went through myself.

I have encountered it. I've done case studies on it, along with other psychological disorders. I've also known and interviewed people who have been through worse crap - every single day of their tours - than the worst things that've gone on in Iraq, and other than a few bad dreams, never had any mental issues. They actually made up the majority of war vets I've interviewed or done case-studies on. It's just a bit hard to take a case of PTSD in a logistics REMF fro Iraq seriously when you've talked with guys who called in - and watched the results of - napalm airstrikes on the bad guys in Viet Nam and never had a twinge of PTSD.

I'm also not saying that every case of every psychological condition is something that can be dealt with without using medication.

However, when you take an objective look at the entire climate of psychiatrist treatment in the US, the overbearing overmedication of anyone who shows signs of mental issues, and the almost distaste for which most psychological practitioners show for using methods other than drugs to work with mentally unstable patients, as well as the amount of people who perpetuate false symptoms in order to get prescription medication, and it becomes clear the entire system needs to be reworked, from the ground up.

Mr earwicker might want to think about that a bit before he calls anyone else a "knuckle-dragging Neanderthal". He probably won't, though, as he couldn't even be bothered to rebut anything, just tossed his unqualified and unwashed opinion out there.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioPhewl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dunno, I must be missing something.

You did. The problem that I have with your first post and the topic of the thread is that in it's general tone it is making grand generalizations about all people with bipolar depression. The topic of your thread isn't "How my family and I have suffered from my sisters bipolar depression", it is "Manic Depression.. folks who suffer from it", and then you claim that the real people who suffer are the family members of people who have bipolar depression, not the patient themselves. Now in follow up it seems that you would like to clarify this as your position about your experience in your family, but that is definitely *not* how the thread topic or first post comes off.

Second, and I was rather explicit about this, my point is that you cannot draw generalizations from single sets of experiences. That is the whole point of statistics. That is the only argument I made in the post. How you can have failed to grasp that is a little bit beyond me- did you actually read what I wrote? I did not make any claims about anyone's suffering, yours, your brother-in-law's, or anyone elses - so I don't know why you brought that up again. Clearly family members of patients who have mental illness also experience difficulty as a direct result of said mental illness, but I specifically didn't bring that up because I don't disagree that family members of patients with mental illness also suffer from it. But I completely disagree with what appears to be the central premise of your first post, particularly given the topic of the thread, that the real victims of mental illness are the family members of mentally ill patients.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have encountered it. I've done case studies on it, along with other psychological disorders. I've also known and interviewed people who have been through worse crap - every single day of their tours - than the worst things that've gone on in Iraq, and other than a few bad dreams, never had any mental issues. They actually made up the majority of war vets I've interviewed or done case-studies on. It's just a bit hard to take a case of PTSD in a logistics REMF fro Iraq seriously when you've talked with guys who called in - and watched the results of - napalm airstrikes on the bad guys in Viet Nam and never had a twinge of PTSD. I'm also not saying that every case of every psychological condition is something that can be dealt with without using medication. However, when you take an objective look at the entire climate of psychiatrist treatment in the US, the overbearing overmedication of anyone who shows signs of mental issues, and the almost distaste for which most psychological practitioners show for using methods other than drugs to work with mentally unstable patients, as well as the amount of people who perpetuate false symptoms in order to get prescription medication, and it becomes clear the entire system needs to be reworked, from the ground up. Mr earwicker might want to think about that a bit before he calls anyone else a "knuckle-dragging Neanderthal". He probably won't, though, as he couldn't even be bothered to rebut anything, just tossed his unqualified and unwashed opinion out there.

Sorry, but the tone of your post indicated a disdain for PTSD sufferers and general dismissal of the condition as a whole. I see that this is not what you intended, but that's how it came off.

I agree that a lot of the current medication practices are criminal, and a some of it does basically boil down to drug-seeking behavior on the part of the patient, which the financially-driven neuro-pharmaceuticals industry is quick to pander to.

Reworking the system isn't enough. We need to get it into people's heads that the very idea of wanting to get high is an inescapable part of human nature and shouldn't be looked at as immoral. Then, we wouldn't have to dress it up as so-called depression or ADD or "amotivational syndrome" (my favorite) and take it at face value - and we wouldn't have such destructive and detrimental ways to pander to it. It has existed for as long as people were people, just mostly dressed up as religious ritual and surrounded by mysticism and religious rhetoric. The current view on it is shortsighted, and inhumane, from a historical, as well as a purely scientific perspective.

Of course, I'm over-simplifying the issue, or rather, focusing on only what is a small part of it. Drug-seeking behavior only explains a small percentage of these cases.

 

[aaron313]

I would like to remind people that we are talking about bipolar, not unipolar, depression. So before you start spouting stuff about medication not being imperative, be careful about generalizing.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would like to remind people that we are talking about bipolar, not unipolar, depression. So before you start spouting stuff about medication not being imperative, be careful about generalizing.

Sorry, are you saying that medication is imperative for bipolar, unipolar and/or depression?