Magni 3 Impressions
Sep 22, 2017 at 3:30 AM Post #46 of 2,593
But if you want to use the unbalanced Mimby, you probably can't take advantage of the Jot's balanced output. I was trying to decide between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 for an amp upgrade and asked Schiit if I could get the benefit of the increased power of the Jotunheim's balanced outputs if I continued to use Mimby as my DAC. Their response: "If you go with Mimby as your DAC, you won't get a truly balanced configuration." (I did ask Schiit to clarify whether or not I would be able to use the more powerful balanced outputs of the Jotunheim even if, as I already knew, the setup was not truly balanced, but surprisingly got no response.) I bought the Vahalla 2, which should be delivered tomorrow.
BTW, if you really want to go balanced, you might want to consider the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, which is available now on Massdrop. It has a very different topology than the Jotunheim, using phase splitters on its single ended inputs to create a balanced signal through the amp. According to Cavalli and Massdrop, you can connect an unbalanced DAC to the RCA inputs and still get a balanced output. I seriously considered this, but aside from leaning to tubes for my HD700 and incoming 6XX, the LCX is not estimated to ship until February 28, 2018, in the end a deal breaker.

is totaly wrong the story about headphone is balanced , head is like a speakers a single ended device all amp in the world have a SINGLE ENDED OUT but can be dual mono ie have the signal ground separate L/R ie 4 wire like a speaker, like you have on out Jotuneim 4 wire, but if you look back is real balanced infact you will see 6 pin NOT 4
Cavalli to split SE>BAL then BAL>SE is only a non sense thing ! the thing is : avoid conversion is a must
hopes this helps
 
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Sep 22, 2017 at 5:58 AM Post #47 of 2,593
But I'm looking forward to see how the Magni 3 pairs with the HD 600/650/800

Lots of people think the Jot pairs great with the 600/650 but is a bit too bright for the 800, it would be funny if the $100 Magni 3 is a good pair with the $1,000 HD 800!

Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.

Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 6:07 AM Post #48 of 2,593
Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.

Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.

How does the overall general tone and treble smoothness, in particular, of the Magni 3 compare with the Vali 2 with stock tube or other tubes?
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 6:27 AM Post #49 of 2,593
Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.

Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.

Perhaps it is true that the Magni 3 as Jason has mentioned in the "Schiit Happened" thread has provided a good compromise or was able to spilt the difference between it(class A/B) and Asgard 2(class A) as far as tonal and sound quality is concerned?
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 6:42 AM Post #50 of 2,593
Perhaps it is true that the Magni 3 as Jason has mentioned in the "Schiit Happened" thread has provided a good compromise or was able to spilt the difference between it(class A/B) and Asgard 2(class A) as far as tonal and sound quality is concerned?
not only the class but in single ended there is more H2 in PP the can be lower or H3 dominant or a right mix
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 6:45 AM Post #51 of 2,593
Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.

In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 7:25 AM Post #52 of 2,593
Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.

In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.

Thank you.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 7:34 AM Post #53 of 2,593
Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.

In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.

Thanks for sharing. The brightness reported by many users is what has held me back from buying a Jot. If the Magni 3 is more forgiving in that regard, it gives me more reason to buy the new Magni instead. I already have a Vali 2 for a more "mellow" sound, so the Magni 3 would be a great solid state addition to my Schiit stack.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM Post #54 of 2,593
Thanks for sharing. The brightness reported by many users is what has held me back from buying a Jot. If the Magni 3 is more forgiving in that regard, it gives me more reason to buy the new Magni instead. I already have a Vali 2 for a more "mellow" sound, so the Magni 3 would be a great solid state addition to my Schiit stack.
Chuck a Tungsram tube in the Vali 2 if you want to wake it up a little, but yes, the Magni 3 would be a great addition. Judging from early impressions is that the Magni 3 is going to be a great sounding $99 headphone amp!
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 10:41 AM Post #55 of 2,593
The balanced output of the Jot is not dependent on using the balanced or SE inputs, so you can use the Mimby while using the balanced output of the Jot as many have done. The Vahalla2 while a decent match for the HD700 and HD650/6XX is not an amp that many would suggest for the HE400i or X2.

Well, that is exactly what I wanted to know from Schiit. I thought their response (not Nick but someone else) was ambiguous and asked for a clarification last week. Surprisingly, since all my previous questions were answered within hours, I never got a response. I'm aware that the Vahalla 2 is not ideal for the 400i; I don't listen to it often and when I do I use the Magni 2U. (As for the X2, I have not listened to it in months, but the Magni is available for it as well.) If the reviews of the Magni 3 continue to be as good as they appear initially, I just may pick one up eventually to have some flexibility; it's likely not dramatically better than the Magni 2U, but it's so darn cheap. In any case, I think my emotional preference (if that makes sense) was to stay with tubes for now and I don't have any present plans to buy additional cans. The Vahalla 2 is out for delivery as I type.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 10:55 AM Post #56 of 2,593
Well, that is exactly what I wanted to know from Schiit. I thought their response (not Nick but someone else) was ambiguous and asked for a clarification last week. Surprisingly, since all my previous questions were answered within hours, I never got a response. I'm aware that the Vahalla 2 is not ideal for the 400i; I don't listen to it often and when I do I use the Magni 2U. (As for the X2, I have not listened to it in months, but the Magni is available for it as well.) If the reviews of the Magni 3 continue to be as good as they appear initially, I just may pick one up eventually to have some flexibility; it's likely not dramatically better than the Magni 2U, but it's so darn cheap. In any case, I think my emotional preference (if that makes sense) was to stay with tubes for now and I don't have any present plans to buy additional cans. The Vahalla 2 is out for delivery as I type.
Thats currently how I using my jotunheim running 3.5 from my AE-5 into the RCA inputs while using the XLR outputs on the rear for my JBL 305's and the XLR on the front for my R70X, When I originally message schiit about it before I got the jot, it was nick who told me that you would still get balance from any of the RCAon the jotunheim because of it's topology . So the person who email you, could had been some one else, unless nick didn't have his coffee yet.
 
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Sep 22, 2017 at 11:41 AM Post #57 of 2,593
How does the overall general tone and treble smoothness, in particular, of the Magni 3 compare with the Vali 2 with stock tube or other tubes?
i have both, and a jot and fulla 2. got my m3 yesterday, so these impressions are very early, with only 3 hours listening time, one of which was directly comparing vali 2 to m3, to see which will be my work amp. i'll spend this weekend doing more listening and will provide more detailed impressions later. but here are my initial impressions after 3 hours. chain is phone w/tidal hifi, modibit, m3/vali 2, t90. yes, i love my t90, treble and all.

first thought when listening for the first 20 mins was "refined". the older magni's had a slight glare in the treble, and a touch of shouty-ness, if you will. that's not present in the m3. despite the more refined highs, its still a very detailed amp. it's very transparent, very neutral. i started to think warm, but honestly, i dont think it is. it's just refined and mostly colorless. nothing stood out to me, other than my headphones and the music. that's a win, for me.

running splitters from modi to the m3 and vali 2 (with eh gold pin tube), i volume matched them to 80db and swapped back and forth. they're very close overall. what i found though is the vali is a touch warmer. there was more thickness to the notes, more body. more liquid, if you will. treble sounded slightly rounded off, less extended. the t90 is bright, and the vali 2 softens it's presentation noticeably. it has a noticeable sound signature. honestly, i find it boring overall. with the stock tube, eh gold pin, and genelex gold lion, it just sounded too smooth, too even toned. nothing stood out, other than it's smooth and slightly warm.

going to the m3, the first thing i noticed was....nothing. all my other amps have a tonal character that i recognize immediately. not so with the m3. i think that's due to only 3 hours ear time, so this WILL change as i learn the amp more. but it just sounded good, and i just couldnt shake that feeling of "nothing". that the amp was very very transparent. but like i said, that's going to change over time as i get used to it, i'm sure. but it's just clean sounding. clean, clear, and neutral. i cant say it's bright, i cant say it's dark. i honestly cant say much other than it sounds really good. i prefer it to the vali for sure. why? it lacks the vali's smooth and slightly rounded presentation. it's more detailed and honest to the headphones and music. to put it into a headphone analogy, it's like the hd600 vs the hd650. i find the 600 the more honest and neutral set.

some other observations - again, compared to older magni's, the treble is much better. less glare, less etching. i found the older magni's to start sounding harsh past 3000k. not so with the m3, it's cleaner.

after 15 mins going back and forth with the jot, i thought it sounded very similar in it's clarity, just not as energetic. the jot sounds a bit spastic for whatever reason. more extension at the top and bottom, though i wouldnt say more detail. it's just a more dynamic sounding amp. not dramatically so though. they're more alike than i expected. the m3 just sounds more composed, more even. the jot is more exuberant. sorry for the non-technical terms, i'm not good at descriptions. given the short amount of time though, the only real thing i kept noticing was the jot's extra dynamics. it was just a slightly brighter, harder hitting amp. it's "fun", the m3 more natural.

only about 5 mins on the fulla 2, and to be honest, it made me appreciate the fulla even more than i already do. the fulla is harsher, less detailed, hazier, but not by such a degree as i'd have expected. it's still amazing sounding for the price. and has plenty of power for my t90, ether c, and other more efficient headphones. but the fulla 2 does sound more raw and rough around the edges compared to the modibit/m3. it's leaner, less dynamic, and much harsher at from 6k on. to these ears, the fulla gets annoying with bright music and bright headphones. i dont like my beyers on it much. the ether c does fine, it's smooth sounding. but my favorite headphones for the fulla 2 are my darker ones, like my nightowl, nad hp50, or b&o h6 gen 2. those sound really good as they brighten up a bit with the fulla. i havent tried them on the m3 yet, only the t90.

so overall, i'm quite impressed with the m3. i think if you want transparency, it's far superior to the vali 2. the vali adds flavor to the sound. if that's your goal, it's the better option. if you want an amp that just gets out of the way, i find the m3 to be the best of my current bunch. i have a grace m9xx at work with the vali, and i'll bring it home to compare to the m3. i find the grace to be quite transparent as well. i'm curious how it will compare to the m3. i'll try using the grace dac with the m3 doing amp duties. then i'll compare the grace as a dac/amp, to the modibit/m3 combo. i will say this, i hate the modibit/vali 2 combo for some reason! it's too soft, too smooth. maybe a different tube is needed. but i think its just my growing preference for lean clarity.

take all this with a major grain of salt as i ONLY LISTED FOR 3 HOURS. my impressions are initial and will change. i have the m3 here at work today with the grace doing dac duties, and my t70 work phones (told you i like lean clear sounds). after 2 hours of listening, i'm liking this combo alot! there's no character to it, other than being "characterless" so far. i like that. how you like the m3 will depend on what you want from it.

hope this helps. for anyone considering the m3, just get it. it's cheap, sounds great, and is so flexible in it's usage. you can run ANYTHING from it. and because it's mostly transparent, your choice of headphone will be the real deciding factor regarding how your system will sound.

more impressions after the weekend.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 11:45 AM Post #58 of 2,593
just a quick note on the jotunheim, there seems to be some confusion. regardless if your input (se or balanced), if you plug in a headphone into the balanced output, you're getting the full power of the jot. whether that's "true balanced" or not, i cant say, i dont fully understand the science. but in terms of power, if you have headphones with a balanced termination, you'll be getting the full power the jot has on tap. i run my jot with a modibit, and find that to be an excellent pairing.
 
Sep 22, 2017 at 2:27 PM Post #60 of 2,593
@erics75 thanks for that detailed break down. I have the T90 as well and love it. Not too far from the HD800 (I compared them), which is amazing considering I got the T90 for $300. Amazing headphone if you're not treble sensitive.
Yeah I'm so glad I grabbed the t90. Got it open box for 199 :)

Does the hd800 offer enough extra to upgrade? I'm always on the fence with that one.
 

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