[Mad Lust Envy]

I'm not going to respond to that because we're talking about two very strong competitive gaming headphones. Just pick one that you think sounds better suited for you, not which one has a micro percentage difference better or worse over the other. They're both solid headphones. Make a choice based on what you think suits you better, don't ask me to make one for you.

 

[ronfifer]

It's ok. No need to choose one over the other. A legit question is what would be an Senn HD equivalent to the AKG K712/612 in terms of 3D positional accuracy in FPS games? I will then decide by myself alone

 

[Fegefeuer]

HD700 but it has other issues I wouldn't wanna deal with. Worse Treble for instance and worse price/performance.

AKG K612, K712 are very safe choices. If you wanna go higher you have to pay much more, and everything inbetween won't be a matter of life and death. As already stated. Differences are very very small.
Cool down the nervosa, you are making good choices with those headphones.

 

[ronfifer]

Cool down the nervosa, you are making good choices with those headphones.

To be honest and transparent about my thought process: I learned from an owner of the K712, who is also a credible member of this community, a competitive FPS gamer, and also owns the HD800s, that he was disappointed to notice that K712 introduces an offset to the soundstage at close range, making nearby sounds feel a bit further away. He recommended the HD58X over the K712 based on what he has tried (since i can't afford the HD800s). On the other hand, the K712 is the recommendation i get from every audiophile community but I am now hesitant.
So my shortlist narrows down to : K712, DT990 Pro, AD900x (or ADG1x), HD58X. Not many owners have a clear say on the 3D positional accuracy of the DT990 so i haven't eliminated it yet.

 

[DeadOfKnight]

I'm not going to respond to that because we're talking about two very strong competitive gaming headphones. Just pick one that you think sounds better suited for you, not which one has a micro percentage difference better or worse over the other. They're both solid headphones. Make a choice based on what you think suits you better, don't ask me to make one for you.

It seems like you try to avoid making direct comparisons, but there's no way for you to honestly say that your impressions of anything are not relative. They don't exist in a vacuum. Whether or not you write it in a review, you're naturally going to be comparing this vs that, even if your standards change over time and the favorites you are comparing them to change. I understand if you say something like "I returned those a long time ago. I just remember them sounding great but not feeling comfortable for my head. I never got to compare them side-by-side with these". However, taking a strong stance against making direct comparisons and avoiding talking about them in relation to others just seems silly to me. Are you trying to avoid pointless arguments with the fanboys? That would make sense. However, people are only asking because you got a chance to try them. Many can only afford one pair of nice headphones, and don't want to gamble with the company's return policy just to try them out. If you've gotten bored of talking about them, have led people astray, or otherwise don't feel comfortable giving this kind of advice anymore that's fine. However, you can't dismiss the value of what you've been doing for this community for many years when this thread is 2,844 pages long. I was going to ask what you think of the Audeze Mobius vs the Creative SXFI Air, but if you don't think this kind of discussion is worth having, I guess I'll have to just ask someone else. Someone who isn't as experienced using many headphones in many types of applications.

 

[Fegefeuer]

To be honest and transparent about my thought process: I learned from an owner of the K712, who is also a credible member of this community, a competitive FPS gamer, and also owns the HD800s, that he was disappointed to notice that K712 introduces an offset to the soundstage at close range, making nearby sounds feel a bit further away. He recommended the HD58X over the K712 based on what he has tried (since i can't afford the HD800s). On the other hand, the K712 is the recommendation i get from every audiophile community but I am now hesitant.
So my shortlist narrows down to : K712, DT990 Pro, AD900x (or ADG1x), HD58X. Not many owners have a clear say on the 3D positional accuracy of the DT990 so i haven't eliminated it yet.

Personally my preference is Beyer over AKG because down the road stuff like warranty and pads also comes into play.
A pair of K712 pads cost around 100€ in Germany. A pair of DT990 pads just cost 20€. That's a massive difference since the AKG pads are not 5 times as durable. I don't know how much you'd pay in CA, it's probably at least similar if not worse.

I prefer the stage the DT990 presents because the K712 is too oval for my taste and a bit too diffuse/focussed in the middle while the Beyer is more "rounded" but also less wide. Still big enough. Beyer does staging very well with most of their headphones.
The Beyer however has the famous Beyer Zing and that can be annoying or even painful for some. K712 is definitely better balanced overall.

I wonder how the DT1990 fares. Probably very very good.

 

[raband]

I will then decide by myself alone

Don't forget to take comfort into consideration too.

I find it far more important at the end of the day than a lot of the small variations in performance between different cans.

I've got a half dozen or more different sets of headphones - it's usually the more comfortable one's I find myself reaching for for extended game play.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Comfort is the single most important decision for me. If this ain't where I wanted, I don't care if it's the best headphone in the world.

I don't even use anything now other than the Koss clip ons or my recently found Ultrasone 15g. Considering I have considerably higher end headphones on hand that aren't uncomfortable, that says a lot. I'll take the sound quality loss every time, as long as comfort is even higher.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I really wish Grado would let me test out a GS1000e and Grado White. I would seriously consider one as my high end, simply because Grado comfort with the big pads are easily the most comfortable of all full sized headphones I have ever felt. I wouldn't consider lesser Grados because they're not designed with the big pads in mind and really alters the sound.

 

[SierraMadre]

@Mad Lust Envy Have you tried the Steel Series Game Dac? AFAIK, it’s the only external dac/amp that offers a new generation VSS solution for both PC *and* PS4 / Xbox (DTS Virtual X v2) and a fully customizable in-line equaliser that is not dependent on PC or a mobile app, you can adjust as you please on the unit itself. I own all the major VSS solutions in some DAC/AMP or another (except Sennheiser’s GSX) and I am pretty impressed with it.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Nope, haven't had a chance to.

 

[headphonesonly]

@Mad Lust Envy Have you tried the Steel Series Game Dac? AFAIK, it’s the only external dac/amp that offers a new generation VSS solution for both PC *and* PS4 / Xbox (DTS Virtual X v2) and a fully customizable in-line equaliser that is not dependent on PC or a mobile app, you can adjust as you please on the unit itself. I own all the major VSS solutions in some DAC/AMP or another (except Sennheiser’s GSX) and I am pretty impressed with it.

The gamedac sucks. Super under powered and sounded hollow af.

 

[SierraMadre]

The gamedac sucks. Super under powered and sounded hollow af.

My experience has been different when fed easy to drive headphones. Works fine with my Fidelio X2 and my AKG K7XX is decent with it too but then again, I have sensitive ears and don’t require high volumes and I will admit that two of the presets do sound terrible. Haven’t used it in a while as gaming has taken a back seat but there are 3 presets iirc, and only one sounds decent, the others do sound hollow and excessivelh reverby.

Also, not sure when you last heard it but it’s had a few firmware updates since it released that purport to improve VSS audio quality. That may or may not be relevant to your experience but I know that if you had asked me around 12-18 months ago, my opinions of DTS Virtual X (and, as it happens, Dolby Atmos for headphone too) would be much less positive than they are now. Same with the SXFI Amp, when I first got it the audio quality in SXFI mode was awful. It took at least a couple of firmware updates before it was good enough for me to start using.

 

[illram]

My experience has been different when fed easy to drive headphones. Works fine with my Fidelio X2 and my AKG K7XX is decent with it too but then again, I have sensitive ears and don’t require high volumes and I will admit that two of the presets do sound terrible. Haven’t used it in a while as gaming has taken a back seat but there are 3 presets iirc, and only one sounds decent, the others do sound hollow and excessivelh reverby.

Also, not sure when you last heard it but it’s had a few firmware updates since it released that purport to improve VSS audio quality. That may or may not be relevant to your experience but I know that if you had asked me around 12-18 months ago, my opinions of DTS Virtual X (and, as it happens, Dolby Atmos for headphone too) would be much less positive than they are now. Same with the SXFI Amp, when I first got it the audio quality in SXFI mode was awful. It took at least a couple of firmware updates before it was good enough for me to start using.

I tried it 9 months ago, I'll have to dig it up and give it another shot. My impressions back then were not good.

As others also have done, I went for the recent GameDAC sale, and gave it a try tonight on the Xbox One with COD: Black Ops 4. Impressions can be summed up as: I am happy with the G6, and definitely X7, over it.

• Very underpowered even at "High" gain. My 598's are not that hard to drive and I need to turn the unit up close to 100% to get it acceptably loud. Running it direct from the unit, there is hiss at high volumes.
• Tried my Koss ESP950 using its lineout into the Koss Energizer. Eliminated the hiss, but still needed to crank it to 100% volume as well.
• The stage is closed in and overly reverby. Definitely has the "sounds like you are in a box," effect which is undesirable. On a revealing headphone that does not really have a very wide natural stage like the Koss, it was basically unlistenable. (SBX on the Koss, on the other hand, creates a very nice and large artificial stage). On the HD598 it was more tolerable and I more or less got used to it, but it still sounded overly artificial.
• The channel separation is too abrupt. It is more or less like stereo in how shifting your view abruptly moves sound from one speaker to another. 5.1 shows its limitations here when there is not adequate panning from one channel to another. I wouldn't say rear cues were well defined other than rear left and rear right. Inadequate panning meant there was no real "behind" you audio cues since it really wants to put the noise in one rear channel or the other.
• It's very bright. Almost piercing. Treble noises like gunshots are super loud while other frequencies are not as high, which is a problem since you need to put the volume up high to hear mostly everything else.
• I love the OLED screen. It is super useful to control this from that screen rather than on your PC.
• I did not mess with the chat functionality but it seems easier for microphone purposes than the G6 or X7, especially given the OLED menu. It even has an EQ which I am a huge sucker for.

I will give it some more time and maybe mess with the EQ, but, I think my curiosity about this device is more or less satiated. Adequate if you have very easy to drive headphones that are not super revealing, like a lot of headsets, and you need chat. At $65 I'd say it's an interesting cheap foray into VSS, but at their non sale price I would say purchase anything else. (My opinion.)

 

[wmf]

I wonder how the DT1990 fares. Probably very very good.

I hear they are very good. most likely my next can purchase. was either those or the T90.