[SierraMadre]

Yeah but in order to use optical for that you'd need to have either an X7 or a G6 both of which have console-compaible mic inputs (X7 with a BT-W2) so the Arc's featureset is redundant considering it doesn't have Hel's superior mic input or Asgard 3 power output.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the HEL doesn’t have the Asgard’s power output either. . . And on the mic-side, if we are to dismiss the Arc because the G6 and X7 already have console compatible mic inputs then again, that discounts the HEL too.

You may not see a use case / advantage over the HEL *for you* but that doesn’t mean there’s no use case / advantage over the HEL for anybody else whatsoever. Yes, the Arc is more expensive but fact remains this solves the lack of optical lamented by MLE and also doesn’t require a wall wart.
The benefit of optical is not limited to use with a Creative device for SBX either. E.g. if an Xbox user wanted to feed pre-mixed Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X or Windows Sonic to the Arc as uncompressed PCM direct from the Xbox via optical, they can, no G6 or X7 or intermediate dac would be required. Can’t do that with the HEL because no optical in. Sure, it would require mic adapters or work arounds but a) not every use case requires a mic (single player, movies, tv etc.) and b) any such work arounds would also be required for the HEL.

 

[WhiteHartMart]

For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit. Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro). I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering. I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.

The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)

 

[SierraMadre]

For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit. Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro). I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering. I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.

The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)

I would think that the HEL will become a more suitable accessory for your needs and plenty others’ next year with the release of the new consoles. Hopefully the Xbox will have usb audio, if not for discrete multichannel purposes then at least stereo audio and chat that would allow for the various supported headphone spatial formats (Atmos, DTS X, Windows sonic) to be pushed to the HEL. On Sony’s side, they obviously already support usb stereo and chat so hopefully they will take a leaf out of MS’s book and allow their in-house 3D sound format to be pushed over USB to an external dac/amp too

 

[WhiteHartMart]

I would think that the HEL will become a more suitable accessory for your needs and plenty others’ next year with the release of the new consoles. Hopefully the Xbox will have usb audio, if not for discrete multichannel purposes then at least stereo audio and chat that would allow for the various supported headphone spatial formats (Atmos, DTS X, Windows sonic) to be pushed to the HEL. On Sony’s side, they obviously already support usb stereo and chat so hopefully they will take a leaf out of MS’s book and allow their in-house 3D sound format to be pushed over USB to an external dac/amp too

Yea, next gen will open up more options. Sadly though, the Schiit doesn't work at all over PS4 USB so regardless of the console implementation, it needs some of the DAC/Amp manufacturers to ensure their products work with consoles also it seems. Think some assume us console gamers just want to use cheap plastic audio accessories with flashing lights

 

[Yethal]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the HEL doesn’t have the Asgard’s power output either. . . And on the mic-side, if we are to dismiss the Arc because the G6 and X7 already have console compatible mic inputs then again, that discounts the HEL too.

You may not see a use case / advantage over the HEL *for you* but that doesn’t mean there’s no use case / advantage over the HEL for anybody else whatsoever. Yes, the Arc is more expensive but fact remains this solves the lack of optical lamented by MLE and also doesn’t require a wall wart.
The benefit of optical is not limited to use with a Creative device for SBX either. E.g. if an Xbox user wanted to feed pre-mixed Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X or Windows Sonic to the Arc as uncompressed PCM direct from the Xbox via optical, they can, no G6 or X7 or intermediate dac would be required. Can’t do that with the HEL because no optical in. Sure, it would require mic adapters or work arounds but a) not every use case requires a mic (single player, movies, tv etc.) and b) any such work arounds would also be required for the HEL.

HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.

For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit. Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro). I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering. I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.

The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)

If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.

 

[WhiteHartMart]

HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.


If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.

That would be great other than the Hel (nor the Fulla 3) doesn't work with PS4 via USB either. Doesn't support the USB standard the PS4 uses apparantly

 

[WhiteHartMart]

Opinions on the G3 I am testing have changed a little - it seems it just needs to pair with certain, easy to drive, headphones/headsets. With my Game Ones its more than passable, can drive them to more than high enough volumes and allows the mic to work ok. Certainly far better with that set up than with the ModMic/Headphone route I went for the previous test.

 

[Snikibiki]

How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?

 

[PurpleAngel]

How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?

Sound Stage term is usually referred to for music, Surround Sound term is more for gaming or movies.
I'm going to guess the AKG K701 has a wider sound stage, then the other two.

 

[Lay.]

How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/sennheiser-hd-800-s-vs-akg-k701/290/326

Look for the soundstage comparison...

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I don't like the metrics they have for stuff like soundstage. You can't just put a number to something like that.

I love rtings for their tv stuff. Not so much for the audio. So much of audio is utterly subjective, and these data points don't amount to much.

 

[themrmikemcd]

Quick math question: Would PS4 pro+ optical to fio e10k+ fio e12+ 80 ohm DT770s or Vokyl Erupt headphones =Winning? Or is that over kill or would that not all connect? Would anyone be so kind as to help this poor ignorant soul out so that I don't waste my money lol. I already own the fio e12. Just looking for a good dac to pair it with that's in the 100ish price range. Would the g6 be a significant upgrade over the e10k SOUND wise? Just for fun gaming not for footsteps or competitive gaming. Thank you!!

 

[headphonesonly]

Quick math question: Would PS4 pro+ optical to fio e10k+ fio e12+ 80 ohm DT770s or Vokyl Erupt headphones =Winning? Or is that over kill or would that not all connect? Would anyone be so kind as to help this poor ignorant soul out so that I don't waste my money lol. I already own the fio e12. Just looking for a good dac to pair it with that's in the 100ish price range. Would the g6 be a significant upgrade over the e10k SOUND wise? Just for fun gaming not for footsteps or competitive gaming. Thank you!!

E10k doesn’t have an optical input so that wont work. Why not plug the e12 into the controller

 

[themrmikemcd]

E10k doesn’t have an optical input so that wont work. Why not plug the e12 into the controller

Oh, I thought it did. Doh! well thanks for the info. I didnt think the controller had a very good dac inside to use it that way.

 

[SierraMadre]

HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.


If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.

Oh? I thought it was all about the HEL being a ‘significant upgrade in audio’ over the G6. . .? Now it’s about the mic input?

If you’re going to claim the increased power makes the HEL worth getting instead of or on top of the G6 then how does the same not apply to the Arc 2 which has very similar audio specs to the Hel? But ok, superior mic input. . . That is indeed an advantage. But fact remains it has no optical, doesn’t work with either console anyway and wall wart is mandatory rather than optional. Those may be negligible considerations for you, doesn’t necessarily mean that has to be the case for everybody else.

Accordingly, the G6 instead of the HEL (and instead of the Ark too) is enough for me personally - as previously stated and I stand by that. . . But I don’t necessarily expect or require that to be the case for everybody else. I wasn’t presenting it as a ‘must have’, I simply asked if anybody had tried it and observed that it had some of the things MLE had lamented the absence of in the HEL.
The way you’re trying to finesse the comparison in favour of the HEL so that anything the HEL lacks in comparison is pointless anyway while anything the Arc 2 lacks is significant and worthwhile suggests your quickness to scoff at and dismiss the mere suggestion of it has more to do with one unit being Schiit and the other not. . .