[ciukacz]

There are many people who own creative gear who can chime in (I don't have one), but I'm pretty sure sbx surround is creative's vss technology. In this context, vss being the use of hrtf to maintain the spatial information in a surround sound mix.

look man, i also owned different creative cards for the last 20 years or so, like a lot of people here.
i'm telling you how it works specifically with g6, with it's current driver and firmware (on today's beta now).
its stupidly easy to turn off sbx surround but leave 7.1 and do windows mmsys.cpl test.
without sbx surround it sound less spacious but there are still directional cues.
what is also unfortunate is that they are worse than x-fi cmss 3d regardless of the settings i use with g6.
fortunately g6 + hesuvi gsx is good so i think the card will stay with me.

 

[mindbomb]

look man, i also owned different creative cards for the last 20 years or so, like a lot of people here.
i'm telling you how it works specifically with g6, with it's current driver and firmware (on today's beta now).
its stupidly easy to turn off sbx surround but leave 7.1 and do windows mmsys.cpl test.
without sbx surround it sound less spacious but there are still directional cues.
what is also unfortunate is that they are worse than x-fi cmss 3d regardless of the settings i use with g6.
fortunately g6 + hesuvi gsx is good so i think the card will stay with me.

Okay, if this is true and you can't turn off virtual surround sound with your settings, then you shouldn't be using hesuvi with it. Direct mode has no virtual surround sound right? Because maybe you can use direct mode and voicemeeter then.

But you said that you can't hear the difference between the g6 and the alc1220, so it sounds like there isn't virtual surround sound when sbx is off.

 

[ciukacz]

Okay, if this is true and you can't turn off virtual surround sound with your settings, then you shouldn't be using hesuvi with it.

Direct mode has no virtual surround sound right? Because maybe you can use direct mode and voicemeeter then.

if i disable hesuvi, sbx and use direct mode (7.1) it still has vss.
i believe i gave you good explanation why this doesnt have to be a problem.
i also compared with my onboard soundcard output and i hear no loss in quality and positional accuracy.

edit: on my cans (hd58x) especially the loss in positional accuracy would be noticeable.

 

[mindbomb]

i believe i gave you good explanation why this doesnt have to be a problem.
i also compared with my onboard soundcard output and i hear no loss in quality and positional accuracy.

The explanation you gave made no sense. If hesuvi is processing the 7.1 > 2 channel with hrtf, and then those 2 channels are being processed by vss on the g6, then the g6 will mistake those 2 channels for front channels, and be adding front hrtf on top of audio that already has hrtf in it.

 

[ciukacz]

But you said that you can't hear the difference between the g6 and the alc1220, so it sounds like there isn't virtual surround sound when sbx is off.

a good test for this would be to play a 7.1 audio test file with channel designations.
if you disable mixing in the player/decoder with vss off would mean other channels aside FL and FR would be muted.
i am not able to achieve this with the g6's front hp output.

edit: and also not with the line out, even with the option "apply headphone virtualization to line/optical out" disabled in direct and spdif-out direct modes

 

[mindbomb]

a good test for this would be to play a 7.1 audio test file with channel designations.
if you disable mixing in the player/decoder with vss off would mean other channels aside FL and FR would be muted.
i am not able to achieve this with the g6's front hp output.

But the reason you can hear all the channels might just be because of a regular stereo downmix. A better test is to record the processed audio, upload it to youtube, and see if anyone here recognizes it as being hrtf audio.

 

[ciukacz]

But the reason you can hear all the channels might just be because of a regular stereo downmix. A better test is to record the processed audio, upload it to youtube, and see if anyone here recognizes it as being hrtf audio.

it's not the downmix, i specifically said i disabled that and i made sure by checking on another output device where other channels were muted as expected.
i will check tomorrow if i have a cable to record this.

 

[mindbomb]

it's not the downmix, i specifically said i disabled that and i made sure by checking on another output device where other channels were muted as expected.
i will check tomorrow if i have a cable to record this.

I'm saying it could be just a regular stereo downmix being done by the creative g6. Did you notice if there was a difference spatially between when the software downmix was disabled and when it was enabled? Remember to volume match it also if there is a difference.

 

[ciukacz]

yes, lav audio decoder mixing disabled sounds different spatially then with it enabled (sbx surround off in both cases).
but if we follow your logic: if g6 would be performing a simple stereo downmix on a hesuvi hrtfed signal it would also be destroying the hrtf, right?
the order is important in these operations.

 

[mindbomb]

yes, lav audio decoder mixing disabled sounds different spatially then with it enabled (sbx surround off in both cases).
but if we follow your logic: if g6 would be performing a simple stereo downmix on a hesuvi hrtfed signal it would also be destroying the hrtf, right?
the order is important in these operations.

If the g6 performs a simple stereo downmix on hesuvi hrtf signal, the hrtf is preserved, because doing a stereo downmix is just summation, and the other channels are empty.

The contradiction is that you are saying the g6 has vss that is affecting spatial quality, yet not interfering with hesuvi. I don't see how this is possible.

 

[ciukacz]

If the g6 performs a simple stereo downmix on hesuvi hrtf signal, the hrtf is preserved, because doing a stereo downmix is just summation, and the other channels are empty.

The contradiction is that you are saying the g6 has vss that is affecting spatial quality, yet not interfering with hesuvi. I don't see how this is possible.

of course agreed, a downmix would be preferable to adding another hrtf.
but there are different downmix algorithms and we can't know which one it is using, or if it is doing something fancier (and perhaps more destructive to hesuvi vss).
maybe it would be good idea to ask /u/Creative_Ryan on reddit? maybe he can ask the devs and get a straight answer.

but, ultimately, i believe the proof is in the pudding.
i have been using g6 (sbx off) with hesuvi gsx and it sounds really good.
can't find the cable, maybe i'll find one in the nearby store today.

 

[Yethal]

i asked /u/Creative_Ryan for the option to disable their vss, in general i would say that they seem to be open to suggestions, maybe they will provide it down the road if enough people ask:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...er_g6_discussion_thread_introduction/egwi0w9/

If that's the same guy that used to be Creative rep on Head-Fi and ignored this thread for the past two years then please say hi from us.

 

[Lay.]

The new G6 beta firmware/software is looking promising. Much more control with the settings.
These are two of the new features that I like a lot.

- Improve Surround, SmartVol, Dialog+ effects (value-based settings)
- Controls for Noise Reduction, Acoustic Echo Cancellation and SmartVol for microphone input

I'm now playing on PS4 with Surround set to 80% and mic noise reduction around 1/4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/atkay3/g6_beta_software_firmware/

 

[Clean6eR]

The new G6 beta firmware/software is looking promising. Much more control with the settings.
These are two of the new features that I like a lot.

- Improve Surround, SmartVol, Dialog+ effects (value-based settings)
- Controls for Noise Reduction, Acoustic Echo Cancellation and SmartVol for microphone input

I'm now playing on PS4 with Surround set to 80% and mic noise reduction around 1/4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/atkay3/g6_beta_software_firmware/

hi,

is there a simple link to dl them from, i have pm'd that creative guy but guessing he wont respond till Monday earliest, it would be cool to test it over this weekend

 

[Lay.]

hi,

is there a simple link to dl them from, i have pm'd that creative guy but guessing he wont respond till Monday earliest, it would be cool to test it over this weekend

Hi Clean6eR,

I would truly like to help you and share the files but since it is not a public beta and this is a nice step from Creative to get a feedback from the community, I don't want to ruin anything by sharing the files.

I hope you understand.