[GODJOEY]

  I've been gaming since the early 80s and things have changed, not always for the better (Take PS2 keyboards for instance but that is a whole other rant).
 
When it comes to PC monitors, anything above 8ms response time has a chance for ghosting depending on manufacturer and of course other variables. Generally you want 5ms or lower for a gaming monitor, but I sacrificed response time for accurate color production of IPS.
 
So its far from amusing and I'll use this line to explain "I've been gaming since well before LCD panels so I don't even pay attention to refresh rate anymore since all monitors are so absurdly good these days". CRT monitors which were BEFORE LCD were better in many ways for gaming. Their response times are extremely low (1ms or under), their color production was better at 32 bit and their black levels deeper, and they also have no "native resolution" so no image quality lose depending on res used which allowed for system flexibility with your current hardware.
 
If you would purchase a IPS monitor which can have response times in the 14 to 16ms, I promise you will see a lot of ghosting. IPS is generally more used in the marketing image editing areas where they want accurate color production and don't need fast response times. 
 
On topic,
Much debate could be had on if virtual surround is better than just good ol stereo amp correctly.

IPS has gotten much better now, 5ms gtg and 8-9 input lag.  
Is sennheiser pc350 closed backs better at sound cues than say an AKG550 or Audio Technica a900x? Thank you

 

[Stillhart]

   
On topic,
Much debate could be had on if virtual surround is better than just good ol stereo amp correctly.

 
Perhaps, but this thread is literally dedicated to virtual surround.  If you just want good ol stereo, you don't need this guide.
 
Regarding monitors, I'm not prepared to get into a debate.  I apologize if you took my amusement personally; I am amused when anyone feels they must have a PERFECT visual experience to enjoy a game.  I gamed just fine with lots of ghosting for years after CRT went the way of the dinosaur.  I am also one of those weirdos who can't tell 30fps from 60fps without seeing them side-by-side.  I also don't care if a game has the bestest graphics with the most p's and fps's.  I had a plenty good time playing my Infogrames text games and Sierra games in CGA (320x200, 4 colors).
 
Your needs are your own and far be it from me to judge whether they're right or wrong.  I'll still be amused tho, sorry.

 

[Evshrug]

I don't know, to me it seems these amps (ZxR, X7) are made with the Beyer/Sennheiser mindset of the "last" generation (DT880, 990, 600/650) as in generally harder to drive "high end" with high impedance. Not sure if my English makes sense here. 

Makes sense to me. X7 is a high end processor for high end home-use headphones.

There it is, that impedance switch.

I thought that was the impedance selector switch for 4 ohm or 8 ohm passive speakers?

this is gonna be awkward amidst all the X7 discussion (though I should check out the price locally).
I'm currently using the Fidelio X1. I recently bought the HD598 thanks to the Amazon Lightning Deal. Intended for my brother so he can upgrade from his Steelseries but he doesn't want.
So the question is - is it worth keeping or the 598? or should I sell my X1? I probably can only keep 1 of the two

Awk! They're kinda opposite/complimentary sounds. The HD598 is tilted more towards mids/treble with lighter bass and more soundstage, while the X1 is bass-emphasized. The $110 deal on the HD598 is the stronger value, but do whatever you're happier with... I might keep both if I didn't have better.

 

[phobia337]

   
Perhaps, but this thread is literally dedicated to virtual surround.  If you just want good ol stereo, you don't need this guide.
 
Regarding monitors, I'm not prepared to get into a debate.  I apologize if you took my amusement personally; I am amused when anyone feels they must have a PERFECT visual experience to enjoy a game.  I gamed just fine with lots of ghosting for years after CRT went the way of the dinosaur.  I am also one of those weirdos who can't tell 30fps from 60fps without seeing them side-by-side.  I also don't care if a game has the bestest graphics with the most p's and fps's.  I had a plenty good time playing my Infogrames text games and Sierra games in CGA (320x200, 4 colors).
 
Your needs are your own and far be it from me to judge whether they're right or wrong.  I'll still be amused tho, sorry.

No I didn't take anything personally, just was explaining that ghosting does exist. I was under the impression you were saying ghosting does not happen and didn't want to see people take that wrong, go out buying a high end IPS which is designed for graphic editing and not gaming. 
 
I also thought this thread was for using headphones for consoles/PC gaming, didn't see it dedicated to virtual surround sound. Being that my knowledge on the sound side is extremely limited, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how exactly to hook up theses devices (amp/dac) to a console. Compound that with hopefully to daisy chain PC and PS4 together plus throw in these virtual surround processors, it can be little head spinning on what is good options.
 
So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones? 

 

[Stillhart]

  No I didn't take anything personally, just was explaining that ghosting does exist. I was under the impression you were saying ghosting does not happen and didn't want to see people take that wrong, go out buying a high end IPS which is designed for graphic editing and not gaming. 
 
I also thought this thread was for using headphones for consoles/PC gaming, didn't see it dedicated to virtual surround sound. Being that my knowledge on the sound side is extremely limited, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how exactly to hook up theses devices (amp/dac) to a console. Compound that with hopefully to daisy chain PC and PS4 together plus throw in these virtual surround processors, it can be little head spinning on what is good options.
 
So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones? 

 
I believe you want to use the USB for power and then use the optical connection to get your sound from the console to the DAC/Amp.  (E17 has optical input, right?) This will get you stereo audio only, no chat.  
 
I don't personally see the advantage in this as you can just plug your headphones right into the controller if you want stereo sound and I don't think the DAC adds much when gaming.  Adding a standalone amp like the E09k or E12 will probably be noticeably beneficial depending on your choice of headphones.
 
There is a PC gaming guide as well, if you want to hit that up later.  We're pretty easy-going about discussing all kinds of topics related to gaming in this thread tho.  I was just saying that if you wanted to debate the pros and cons of virtual surround, you're going to have a tough time in this thread; most of us are aware of the cons and still think surround is worth the cost/effort.

 

[Evshrug]

Damn I'm on a negative roll today.

Time for the HD 800 to avoid a potential mismatch :evil:  

Or HD700, DT880 250 ohms or up, DT990 250 ohms and up, any of the AKGs positioned at the model K601 and up/newer, V-MODA M-100, etc...

...
So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones? 

Well, the FiiO has battery so you can use that or USB for power, then just connect the E17 with optical to the PS4 and set the ps4 to output audio settings as PCM (stereo). On PC you could use either USB or optical. Just remember that the E17 has no DSP for surround.

You're like NamelessPFG, he held on to a Sony HD CRT for years, but within the past month it finally bit the dust and parts are basically gone. It so happens that I do graphic design from time to time, so I accept the IPS trade-off, but since my Asus doesn't have any prettifying processing it has negligible input lag and has far far less ghosting than other IPS I've seen... And some TN panels have advanced a long way with dark levels and gamut range, time has helped the new tech gain back some of the advantages of old tech.

 

[phobia337]

   
I believe you want to use the USB for power and then use the optical connection to get your sound from the console to the DAC/Amp.  (E17 has optical input, right?) This will get you stereo audio only, no chat.  
 
I don't personally see the advantage in this as you can just plug your headphones right into the controller if you want stereo sound and I don't think the DAC adds much when gaming.  Adding a standalone amp like the E09k or E12 will probably be noticeably beneficial depending on your choice of headphones.
 
There is a PC gaming guide as well, if you want to hit that up later.  We're pretty easy-going about discussing all kinds of topics related to gaming in this thread tho.  I was just saying that if you wanted to debate the pros and cons of virtual surround, you're going to have a tough time in this thread; most of us are aware of the cons and still think surround is worth the cost/effort.

Well doesn't the DS4 use blue tooth or something like that to pass the stereo signal? Wouldn't that cause decrease sound quality. I also tried my 60 ohm HD 280s on the controller but with no amp they are so low you can barely hear anything. So this is why I'm thinking something like the E17, it has optical in which I need for the PS4, plus I can use it on the go also. I also looked at the E09k but only saw RCA analog connections so I was not sure how I would make that work with the PS4. 
 
 

Or HD700, DT880 250 ohms or up, DT990 250 ohms and up, any of the AKGs positioned at the model K601 and up/newer, V-MODA M-100, etc...
Well, the FiiO has battery so you can use that or USB for power, then just connect the E17 with optical to the PS4 and set the ps4 to output audio settings as PCM (stereo). On PC you could use either USB or optical. Just remember that the E17 has no DSP for surround.

You're like NamelessPFG, he held on to a Sony HD CRT for years, but within the past month it finally bit the dust and parts are basically gone. It so happens that I do graphic design from time to time, so I accept the IPS trade-off, but since my Asus doesn't have any prettifying processing it has negligible input lag and has far far less ghosting than other IPS I've seen... And some TN panels have advanced a long way with dark levels and gamut range, time has helped the new tech gain back some of the advantages of old tech.

You are absolutely correct, time has helped and just recently in the last 5 years or so have the IPS panels dropped the response times to acceptable levels. Now, I've been without a CRT for a long long time now, and went from a TN to the IPS. Now with that said, I still think from the competitive side it is hard to beat a 1 to 2ms VA or TN panel. For me, accurate colors in sports titles like Madden 2015 is important to me because I want to see the 49ers real red uniforms or the right Seahawks lime green. While I can deal with the slower the response time, the one area I dislike is the black levels on IPS/PLS is just not to plasma levels yet. Hope we see some improvements there in the coming years.

 

[Stillhart]

  Well doesn't the DS4 use blue tooth or something like that to pass the stereo signal? Wouldn't that cause decrease sound quality. I also tried my 60 ohm HD 280s on the controller but with no amp they are so low you can barely hear anything. So this is why I'm thinking something like the E17, it has optical in which I need for the PS4, plus I can use it on the go also. I also looked at the E09k but only saw RCA analog connections so I was not sure how I would make that work with the PS4. 
 

 
Yes, you lose some sound quality in theory when it passes the wireless signal to the controller.  But if the source material isn't great to begin with, how much are you really losing?  Even if it is amazing source material, I'm generally not listening critically when I'm playing; I'm concentrating on other things unless I'm listening for specific audio cues (like chests in Destiny or footsteps in CoD).
 
So like I said, personally for me, if you're going with stereo, I'd go with the easiest solution.  If the controller is too quiet, you hook it up to a portable amp like the E11 or E12 and you're golden.  The E17 can act as an amp or a DAC/Amp, I believe, so it's versatile.  I just wouldn't expect miracles from the SQ.

 

[conquerator2]

Eizo FS2333 is a fine example of a gaming IPS monitor done right.
I absolutely love it and don't see myself parting with it anytime soon

 

[martin vegas]

Eizo FS2333 is a fine example of a gaming IPS monitor done right.
I absolutely love it and don't see myself parting with it anytime soon

What did you do with the Samsung syncmaster you had? I am thinking of getting a brix mini pc just for reading chat on twitch while I am streaming and using the syncmaster for that and gaming on my ps4 with the ben q!

 

[rudyae86]

Im using a 27inch VA BenQ monitor for both gaming amd watching movies. I like the colors and the blavks on VAs and my input lag is still in the low 12ms. Ghosting is not appearent either even though its 4ms GTG.

I had an IPS before that and like the rich color it produced but the the black looked more like a faded black...kind of like how blavk sweaters look after a while of use, purple-ish and faded.

I really do hope IPS make an improvement in the next 2 years because I really like vibrant colors

 

[benbenkr]

Makes sense to me. X7 is a high end processor for high end home-use headphones.
 

 
Pfft. The super cheap Omni isn't at the universal 3ohm or lower output impedance either... and that's targeted at gamers who use gaming headsets, which majority are at 32ohms. 

 

[Evshrug]

Pfft. The super cheap Omni isn't at the universal 3ohm or lower output impedance either... and that's targeted at gamers who use gaming headsets, which majority are at 32ohms. :blink:

Universal 3 ohm?? You could go up to FOUR OHMAGERDs! But there's no standard about these things.
Makes more sense to use higher end headphones with the higher end X7... but yeah, I don't even know what the Omni's output impedance is. I think that output impedance is only starting to be understood and more widely observed by Joe Public, and even then our 1/8 "rule of thumb" is a general blanket statement that has varying effects on different headphones and is talked about in a way akin to stories told to frighten children. It does have an effect, but not universally, and not universally objectionable to each person.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Stillhart, just because my gaming impressions for the headphones are surround related, the reviews themselves are based on the headphone's own sound, not related to surround (that section is specifically in the soundstage/positioning sub sections of the reviews).

 

[Stillhart]

Stillhart, just because my gaming impressions for the headphones are surround related, the reviews themselves are based on the headphone's own sound, not related to surround (that section is specifically in the soundstage/positioning sub sections of the reviews).

Never meant to imply otherwise, my apologies.