[moses667]

Quote:

 
Theory is one thing.  It does not always equate to practical experience and preference.
 
"don't feel it is possible to reach equivalent quality out of great headphones with a cheap amp"
 
I would have to say no to this:  Adequate quality yes.  Optimal quality no.  Here the headphones would be held back and the amp would be the bottle neck. 
 
"as medium headphones and a great amp"
 
Here you would be able to reach the full potential of the headphones.  This is the most desired way IMO
 
Note:  this is not specific to the MDs or the HE-500s.  this is just in general.

Cool, totally agree with you.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

Well, none in particular. The question was just whether you would feel OK pairing  $1k+ headphones with $200 speaker amp.
 
I would have though since it is only $200,00 AND being a speaker amp, it would lack the refinement of a $700,00 dedicated headphone amp.
In addition, the pairing with a high-end can such as the HE-6 would have revealed the lesser nature of the amp.
 
Is the miniX that good?

 
 
It's a speaker amp..    It's meant to drive speakers.  Where headphone amps are ment to drive headphones.  The HE-6 acts more like a speaker than a headphone.  Also, this is like a start up rig for the HE-6.  Yes you could live with it.  But you can also do much better.
 
This $200 speaker amp can do more than headphone amps 2 and 3 times it's cost.   The Mjonlir would be the only headphone amp (within a good price range) that I would say get.  The Mjolnir is what $800?

 

[moses667]

Quote:

Wow - a LOT of noise comments about having to have a Lyr or other moderately high bucks amp to make the MD's work.  I call BS on this.  Seriously.
 
ANY headphone will sound just that bit nicer on an expensive amp.  Buy one if you want.  Don't buy one because you read here you have to have one to enjoy the mad dogs.  Head-fi gets caught up in this all the time.
 
The MD's drive nicely and play wonderfully from a HeadAmp Pico amp/dac combo.  I imagine they sound even better from a Lyr.  Again, if you want a Lyr, buy one because you want it, not because you need it to drive the MD's.  Sheesh, how about a reality check!
 
Driving to get the mail in a Ferrari F40 would just be a bitchin trip, but it aint so bad in my PT cruiser...
 
Note - I am not slamming the Lyr, other high end amps or the people who love them, I've had a couple in my head-fi career (Mister X Dynalo and a Headroom UDA, a couple of Apogee Duets, my Peachtree Nova, maybe others I have forgotten...).  I just strenuously disagree that an amp of this level is required to enjoy the MD.  I certainly don't have one.  Currently using an iBasso PB2, which has bit of power, but is a modestly priced portable amp.  I started out with a Pico Slim, as it is what I had at the time, and while it ran out of power just before ear damaging levels, it was definitely "OK" with the MD's.
 
OK, soapbox over.

I'm with you there. I initially liked the Mad Dogs and then I grew to dislike them very quickly. I can't seem to mention not (personally) liking them without someone saying they're hard to drive and that's the reason. Eh, I just don't care for them. That's me. The best amp in the world isn't going to change that.

 

[jazzerdave]

Quote:

 
I cycled between some DT770's (600ohm), HE-500's and the MD's with dog pads on a Schiit Magni (which should have the oomph for the dogs, at least, so says Schiit) and found the MDs to easily be my least favorite (although most comfortable). The MDs have more detail and flatter response than the Beyers, but just don't have any punch and are the least natural sounding to me. Ultimately "natural" is what I'm looking for regardless of how else they might otherwise outperform higher end cans. (IMHO - YMMV)

 
We certainly differ hear*.  I wouldn't say that I find the MD's more natural sounding than the HE-500, but I don't personally find the DT770 to be natural sounding at all (possibly a difference between the 250Ω and 600Ω versions but more likely a difference between our personal opinions).  Either way, to each his own.
 
* misspelling and pun intended.  I'm sorry.
Quote:

At the risk of being controversial: sure, the Mad Dogs are not easy to drive. I've tried them on a variety of amplifiers including the Lyr, Asgard, Magni, Pico Power demo, a variety of amps I can't even remember the names of at a local meet recently, my Denon amp's headphone outs and a few old speaker amps (from the headphone out, not speaker taps). Regardless of whether my impression of them changed to the point where they had a completely different sound signature or significantly outperformed themselves with a different power source (they didn't), the fact is this: if you have to spend more on the amp to get the sound out of the headphones, why not just get the better headphones in the first place? 
 
Figure this: I feel my HE-500s on the Magni is a much better listening experience than any I heard with the Mad Dogs. That rig is $800USD. I hear many saying the Lyr and Mad Dogs is a great combo (for example), I combo that would run approximately $750USD, and, to my ears, still not come very close to the first combo. So, even if the Mad Dogs DO come close, wouldn't it make sense to get easier to drive, more scalable headphones from the get go from a financial standpoint?
 
BTW- I'm not saying people should run out and buy HE-500s, I don't really care about the particulars, I'm simply pointing out that it seems like chasing the top quality from the Mad Dogs ultimately costs more than starting out with "better" headphones in the first place. Of course the 500s are open and if you're looking specifically for a closed can, this argument is moot, but I'm kinda surprise the quality/cost equation isn't considered more when the refrain "the mad dogs are not easy to drive" comes up over and over again.

 
I don't own nor have I heard the Magni.  I have heard the HE-500 and MD on the Asgard (of which I own the MD and Asgard), and I generally feel the MD provides the better listening experience.  For me that's generally because I'm in rather noisy environments whether it's office noise, or a noisy air conditioner at home (seriously the intake on my AC / heater is loud).  Right now it's not running all that often, but when summer rolls back around, I'll be reaching for the Mad Dog far more often than my HE-6.  Anyway, I feel that for myself and many others, your argument is moot because of the open/closed difference.
 
On the value of the necessary amps point, I am truly the wrong person to ask.  I've spent far more on headphone amps than I have on my car (to be fair I only spent $250 on a used Crown Vic).  Just trying to show that we all have different priorities.
 
 
Quote:

Plus then, rather than having maxed out the capabilities of the Mad Dogs, I've got only reached the basic capabilities of the HE-500s.

 
I've heard the MD's straight from an iPhone, and Galaxy Note 2, and amped out of an Schiit Asgard and Lyr, Burson Soloist, Decware Taboo, and my Cavalli Liquid Glass.  I can safely say that for my ears, the Lyr definitely does not max out the MD's capabilities.  Some will disagree, but I feel that the MD scales very well.
 
Quote:

I'm with you there. I initially liked the Mad Dogs and then I grew to dislike them very quickly. I can't seem to mention not (personally) liking them without someone saying they're hard to drive and that's the reason. Eh, I just don't care for them. That's me. The best amp in the world isn't going to change that.

 
And that is perfectly fine with me.  They're not for everybody, and they don't need to be.  Appreciate you input moses.

 

[MattTCG]

Okay, so I admit I'm one of the one's here who goes on about how good the lyr is with the MD. And honestly, it might be a little bit of overkill to drive the MD properly to enjoyable levels. I justify the expense because I have other headphones that respond well with the lyr. If I was just putting together a setup for the MD, I wouldn't go out and buy the lyr just for it. 
 
I know that I tend to like hp's that are harder to drive, so the lyr is a good choice for me. You can certainly do quite well with cheaper amps and the MD's. 

 

[Fearless1]

Quote:

Okay, so I admit I'm one of the one's here who goes on about how good the lyr is with the MD. And honestly, it might be a little bit of overkill to drive the MD properly to enjoyable levels. I justify the expense because I have other headphones that respond well with the lyr. If I was just putting together a setup for the MD, I wouldn't go out and buy the lyr just for it. 
 
I know that I tend to like hp's that are harder to drive, so the lyr is a good choice for me. You can certainly do quite well with cheaper amps and the MD's. 

I would buy the Lyr in a heartbeat for the MDs, they sound fantastic off of it.  I use my other amps with them and yes, they sound good with my other amps, but they do not have the dynamics and layering with any of my other amps that they have with the Lyr. The only amp I own that sounds almost up to the Lyr level is the Dark voice 337 SE, but still does not have the rich texture to my ears that the Lyr brings to the table. I do not think it is overkill to drive the MDs with the Lyr at all, they take much more gain then say the HD 650/600s or the HE-500s. It always seems to me the people who are quick to jump up and say "this amp is overkill" or "you do not need this or that to drive this HP" are the people who do not own the product in question and/or never heard the pairing .
 
I am not saying the Lyr is the ultimate amp for the MDs, but throw in a couple of upgraded tubes, plug in the Mad Dogs and you have a wonderful sounding set-up for less then 800 bucks!

 

[mikek200]

Quote:

Well, none in particular. The question was just whether you would feel OK pairing  $1k+ headphones with $200 speaker amp.
 
I would have though since it is only $200,00 AND being a speaker amp, it would lack the refinement of a $700,00 dedicated headphone amp.
In addition, the pairing with a high-end can such as the HE-6 would have revealed the lesser nature of the amp.
 
Is the miniX that good?

YES,,for the he-6's

 

[Fearless1]

Quote:

YES,,for the he-6's

I see you owned the Lcd-2s as well Did you try the miniX with them?

 

[mikek200]

Quote:

I see you owned the Lcd-2s as well Did you try the miniX with them?

 
Yes,I did,but couldn't get the volume level past 9 oclock--in fear somethng would blow up...,namely me.
 
The emo & the he-6's are an excellent combo,still use it,in spite of the fact ,I have the mj/gng.. use those with the HD800's...Maddogs..,DT880's...all balanced.
 
Basically,I bought the emo...just to use with the HE-6
 
Waiting for the Schiit Signature gear to come out,,for more options..I'm hearing,it will be something.really .special.?

 

[gorboman]

Funny. My MD sounded best with an old Sansui receiver with an MS2+ DAC. I doubt an old receiver will cost much.

 

[ssrock64]

Quote:

Wow - a LOT of noise comments about having to have a Lyr or other moderately high bucks amp to make the MD's work.  I call BS on this.  Seriously.
 
ANY headphone will sound just that bit nicer on an expensive amp.  Buy one if you want.  Don't buy one because you read here you have to have one to enjoy the mad dogs.  Head-fi gets caught up in this all the time.
 
The MD's drive nicely and play wonderfully from a HeadAmp Pico amp/dac combo.  I imagine they sound even better from a Lyr.  Again, if you want a Lyr, buy one because you want it, not because you need it to drive the MD's.  Sheesh, how about a reality check!
 
Driving to get the mail in a Ferrari F40 would just be a bitchin trip, but it aint so bad in my PT cruiser...
 
Note - I am not slamming the Lyr, other high end amps or the people who love them, I've had a couple in my head-fi career (Mister X Dynalo and a Headroom UDA, a couple of Apogee Duets, my Peachtree Nova, maybe others I have forgotten...).  I just strenuously disagree that an amp of this level is required to enjoy the MD.  I certainly don't have one.  Currently using an iBasso PB2, which has bit of power, but is a modestly priced portable amp.  I started out with a Pico Slim, as it is what I had at the time, and while it ran out of power just before ear damaging levels, it was definitely "OK" with the MD's.
 
OK, soapbox over.

Thank you. I love them out of my best setup all day, but straight out of a uDAC-2 they still sound 95% of what they can.

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

I noticed a great variance in bass quality moving from amp to amp .... even just changing tubes in the Lyr.  May I suggest the pair you heard had a problem further back in the sound chain ....  (source material, dac, amp, etc)

 
Quote:

I want to pick up a pair of the 1Rs for work or just something to mess around with because they look so gorgeous

I agree, and based on those previous comments ... maybe I'll give another shot! 

 

[SgtPepper]

Quote:

Hey, I was wondering if anyone with a good knowledge of the interplay between amp "stats" and the md's could give me an opinion about how well they should be working?
 
 
 
That's from my Hifiman EF2A. I just received my MD's yesterday from a fellow forum goer, but...they don't sound all that great to me.

Actually, I think I like my DT770's (80ohm) more. Maybe my expectations were too high, or maybe I've just developed a...taste for the sound of the 770's, but after seeing people compare the mad dogs to such high quality can's, it makes me think something must be wrong in my setup; and obviously, after reading through this thread more and more, I think it might be the amp.

This close to buying gifts for Christmas, the MD's gave my piggy bank a pretty good shake down, but I'm thinking about adding in a Schiit Magni after funding becomes available. Would it be a worthwhile step up?

 
I'm using the same setup (Mad Dogs with EF2A) and am also contemplating the Magni. The difference is I already love my Mad Dogs and don't think I will be sending the them back. I'm sure you've noticed that the EF2A has plenty of volume for the Mad Dogs; I'm just over 8 o'clock with my source maxed (from everything I've read, you would have this same issue with the Magni). I was also under the impression that the EF2A was designed for low sensitivity, low impedence headphones, like the T50RP. Now I'm sure the Mad Dogs would sound better out of something more powerful, but it's hard for me to imagine "needing" anything more than what you have now to know if the Mad Dogs are for you. I haven't heard the Mad Dogs out of any of the amps being mentioned, but I definitely couldn't justify paying extra money to improve a headphone I am only on the fence about. 
 
Of course, I too am curious if someone could interpret the EF2A's specs in the context of driving the Mad Dogs. 
 
Edit: I'm not sure why the spec table didn't paste.

 

[anoxy]

Just got my Mad Dogs today. Gotta let them burn in, but I'm pleased to see my Audio GD NFB 12.1 is more than capable of driving them.

 

[anoxy]

They do sound a little anemic though, so perhaps it's not a good pairing....