[musicday]

W4 and no problem with the upgrade cable from L&P. Didn't try the stock cable, but I am also on android.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Was just waiting for someone else to confirm this. W4 and W4-ES comes with usb-c to usb-c OTG and usb-c to lightning OTG cables. They both work fine, no issues with the included lightning cable and iPhone. But here is a thing that puzzles me, every other lightning OTG cable works OK with W4 ES, but none of them work with W4. I'm completely puzzled because I would expect W4 and W4 EX to behave the same. I tried usb-c to lightning otg cables from ddhifi, oeaudio, as well as lotoo, cayin, shanling, ibasso, they work with W4 EX but not with W4. Again, no issues with the included lightning cable and W4, just the other cables. And no, I didn't update the fw yet.

I have no experience with W4 and W4-EX, but I can bring my experience with the IFI GOLD-BAR.

The only cable with which I managed to get it to work with iPhone 13 is the following:

https://www.linsoul.com/products/audirect-t-1

I read somewhere that this cable also contains an internal capacitor that compensates for the initial current peak which prevents the GOLD-BAR from turning on

(the behavior, when it doesn't work, is that as soon as it is connected, the LEDs light up for a moment, and then they turn off).

 

[Ferdinando1968]

double post

 

[stacey]

Was just waiting for someone else to confirm this. W4 and W4 EX comes with usb-c to usb-c OTG and usb-c to lightning OTG cables. They both work fine, no issues with the included lightning cable and iPhone. But here is a thing that puzzles me, every other lightning OTG cable works OK with W4 ES, but none of them work with W4. I'm completely puzzled because I would expect W4 and W4 EX to behave the same. I tried usb-c to lightning otg cables from ddhifi, oeaudio, as well as lotoo, cayin, shanling, ibasso, they work with W4 EX but not with W4. Again, no issues with the included lightning cable and W4, just the other cables. And no, I didn't update the fw yet.

The W2 131 I used to have had that same exact problem. It’s not a W4 only thing.

 

[Promee]

Stock OTG lightning cable works for me. Fiio OTG lightning cable also seems to be working the same with it - DSD issue for me is there with both, but both play PCM fine and show everything 32 bit after firmware update.

 

[bluestorm1992]

Just reached out to LP and got two replies.

1. A new FW update to fix the DSD playback issue is being actively developed and should be released soon.
2. Regarding W4’s cable, yes it currently only works with the stock cable and a few other cables using “non-boosting” chips. The reason is because W4 requires high current when turning it on, and thus requires a non-boosting chip to support such current level. W4 EX, on the other hand, has a lower current requirement upon turning on and hence is compatible with most USB cables.

I translated the second point myself with my limited electronic engineering knowledge. I hope I have conveyed the idea correctly. Anyone who has better knowledge, please feel free correct me

 

[ClieOS]

Here is the updated power draw / output measurement using the Power-Z KM003C. The result are taken with volume adjusted in order to match the output power as closely as possible. Xperia 1 IV as source with 1Khz pure tone, 47 ohm dummy load.

W2 (Vol75)

SE:​

USB: 5.185V 0.162A 0.84W​

Output: 0.0837V 13.08mA 1.09mW​

BL:​

USB: 5.185V 0.166A 0.86W​

Output: 0.1660V 25.10mA 4.17mW​

W2-131 (Vol75)

SE:​

USB: 5.187V 0.135A 0.70W​

Output: 0.0841V 13.08mA 1.1mW​

BL:​

USB: 5.187V 0.151A 0,78W​

Output: 0.1666V 25.35mA 4.22mW​

W4

SE: (Vol77)​

USB: 5.189V 0.118A 0.61W​

Output: 0.0972V 12.59mA 1.22mW​

BL: (Vol78)​

USB: 5.188V 0.134A 0.70W​

Output: 0.1987V 21.96mA 4.36mW​

So the result shows that, when comparing W2 to W4 in single-ended 3.5mm output, W4 is using 38% less power. In balanced 4.4mm output, W4 is using 23% less power. The reason why balanced output on W4 doesn't seem as efficient as its SE output has a lot to do how the test is carried out. Notice that W4's BL test has a higher voltage output (0.1987V) than W2 (0.1660V), so in real life listening, W4 will be significantly louder than W2 even though they two has similar output power. So it is possible when volume (not power) matched, W4 will be more than 23% efficient than W2. The fact that W4's BL output is able to match the same USB power draw as W2-131 SE USB power draw while outputs almost 4 times the power is already an impressive feat on its own.

 

[musicday]

Two posts one after the other both saying some good news. Thank you both for being so involved into the community.

 

[Yethal]

Regarding the USB cable issues, instead of using a usb cable made by an audio company try using a DJI cable made for connecting a phone to the drone remote like this one. I found this to be much more reliable than any usb audio cable.

 

[twister6]

Regarding the USB cable issues, instead of using a usb cable made by an audio company try using a DJI cable made for connecting a phone to the drone remote like this one. I found this to be much more reliable than any usb audio cable.

You are using it with your usb/dac dongles and a smartphone? Doesn't even look like OTG cable and probably has thin "data" wires that going to drop 5V as you draw more current.

 

[Yethal]

You are using it with your usb/dac dongles and a smartphone? Doesn't even look like OTG cable and probably has thin "data" wires that going to drop 5V as you draw more current.

Never had any random disconnects with it unlike the ifi otg cable

 

[emilsoft]

In my opinion, i dont think so. Yes w4 is good. But if you compare with Flag ship tier DAP.... not fair for W4 . It better than Mid range DAP. For example, i have test with fiio m11 plus, hiby r6 pro and shanling M7. P/p w4 is better than that all and w4 is so convenient for traveling or go to the coffe shop

Is it better sounding than Shaling M7? That one got stellar reviews, it's essentially close to TOTL level sound quality (if not power) - it is in ballpark if not even better sounding over Sony WM1AM2 and Hiby RS6 R2R dap - W4 beats DAPs up to 1400$ ? Putting aside measurements, if we look at how it sounds it should be very smooth, clean, organic and lifelike, and dynamic with deep tight bass and incredible stereo separation and accurate imaging - essentially RME ADI 2 Fs accuracy and smoothness in dongle form? If that's the case then the W4 is truly a remarkable dongle - it's tricky to reach all that via dirty usb power and small chip - without battery power/advanced reclocking and discrete circuity..

What I've been reading so far is that it's good, but no one got tricked it's a TOTL desktop sound in dongle form.. or am I wrong?

 

[gLer]

What I've been reading so far is that it's good, but no one got tricked it's a TOTL desktop sound in dongle form.. or am I wrong?

This is simply not possible as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure we'll see some incredible dongle sound, but we have to be realistic in our expectations. Most TOTL DAPs are only now starting to approach high-end desktop sound, so what makes anyone think they can get the same level of SQ from a dongle is beyond me.

 

[emilsoft]

This is simply not possible as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure we'll see some incredible dongle sound, but we have to be realistic in our expectations. Most TOTL DAPs are only now starting to approach high-end desktop sound, so what makes anyone think they can get the same level of SQ from a dongle is beyond me.

To be fair, there have been some close-to-miracles in the industry past few years, with some portable DACs/DAPs approaching desktop.

For example, Hiby RS6 can outcompete most 400-500$ standalone desktop DACs when using it's 4.4mm line outs say in a desktop/hifi setup.
Fiio Q7 can compete with most desktop setups too - matching it's price.
Ifi Gryphon and Mojo 2 can stand in for desktop quite easily - many use Mojo 2 as DAC in their $$$ hifi setups. Gryphon doesn't get embarrassed at all next to RME ADI 2 Fs, trades some precision but brings a more analogue musical presentation.

I admit all of these are running on battery, but few years ago it was unthinkable for these kind of portable devices to stand shoulder to shoulder with desktop setups.

So what's next, L&P W8 dongle vs Chord Dave?

Joking aside, what I've learnt is that fpga/reclocking and power are 50% of dac design and where lot of the audio magic comes from - ifi with their mediocre measuring burr brown dac chip have given the Gryphohn a stellar digital/reclocking section making it sound incredibly musical, non digital but also grain free/clean sounding.. so who know where we go from here? Considering the hefty price of the W4 dongle, my expectations are to be very impressed considering L&P's rep - I assume they have some solid FPGA/reclocking/power cleaning going on, perhaps in their all in one "custom" chip.

I'd love to read some more critical with high expectations reviews - it's a relatively hefty wad of cash for this dongle, so hopefully it should blow some socks off.

 

[Polky74]

Honestly from what I've read so far this new W4 hasn't blown anyone out of their seat. Perhaps the expectations were high, but also justified by the price which is almost double its old W2. Also because by now there are many, even too many dongles that make cleanliness and precision their main feature ... bringing something new in this area is not easy now ... then there are some exceptions and peculiarities of some dongles on the others... but obviously the "definitive" one doesn't exist. Among all these, the Questyle M15 stands out to me personally for its ability to drive heavy loads and for its musicality combined with precision (for some superior to the W4 itself), the iBasso DC04PRO for its combined audio quality at a ridiculously low price, the Cayin RU6 for its unique and refined implementation of R2R in such a small device and we will see what the new RU7 will bring. Having said that, the only thing that this new W4 seems to bring to the table to date is, in addition to the improved sound performance compared to its predecessors (5%-7%), a more sparing use of the smartphone battery ... even if not what he would have expected. For "the miracle" we will have to wait (unnecessarily) because of small "miracles" now practically one a week comes out. The W4 is not a miracle just because miracles don't exist (anymore).