[RikudouGoku]

CCA ca16 has 7 ba + 1 dd

Well if the total resistance affects the FR and cable determines the resistance, isn't it ultimately the cable that changes the sound?

The cable resistance is a part in it yes, but you can get very low resistance cables cheap. So stuff like graphene, palladium and other "exotic name materials" are just that, marketing fluff.

 

[slex]

Is it pure palladium or is there a mix of other metals in there?

As mentioned ,no data from XINHS. Its a sample unit he is willing to let at a cost to me.

 

[dougms3]

The cable resistance is a part in it yes, but you can get very low resistance cables cheap. So stuff like graphene, palladium and other "exotic name materials" are just that, marketing fluff.

I'm not an apple customer, so I can be the judge of whats market fluff for myself

So if you are saying that the cable material doesn't affect the sound, anyone who hears a difference from "exotic" materials, like gold, platinum, palladium, graphene, has a wild imagination ? After all, the first 3 are less conductive than copper and silver and silver is the most conductive and retrieves the lowest resistance with all things being equal.

If thats the case I wonder why they don't make all audiophile cables from pure silver...

 

[RikudouGoku]

I'm not an apple customer, so I can be the judge of whats market fluff for myself

So if you are saying that the cable material doesn't affect the sound, anyone who hears a difference from "exotic" materials, like gold, platinum, palladium, graphene, has a wild imagination ? After all, the first 3 are less conductive than copper and silver and silver is the most conductive and retrieves the lowest resistance with all things being equal.

If thats the case I wonder why they don't make all audiophile cables from pure silver...

Placebo is a scary thing. And we are affected by other biases as well. And with different resistances comes different volume levels, it is hard to volume match when you swap cables since it takes a few sec and our audio memory is extremely short as well.

 

[dougms3]

Placebo is a scary thing. And we are affected by other biases as well. And with different resistances comes different volume levels, it is hard to volume match when you swap cables since it takes a few sec and our audio memory is extremely short as well.

Absolutely agree with you. Also have to factor in that some people don't have the same level of capability in their hearing.

Why does no one speak up when @Dsnuts is around. Someone should warn him before he wastes $400 on a cable then...

Btw I've been meaning to ask you, what kind of current are you running through the cables when testing for ohms, it would be very insightful to know the volts and amps. Thanks.

 

[RikudouGoku]

Absolutely agree with you. Also have to factor in that some people don't have the same level of capability in their hearing.

Why does no one speak up when @Dsnuts is around. Someone should warn him before he wastes $400 on a cable then...

Btw I've been meaning to ask you, what kind of current are you running through the cables when testing for ohms, it would be very insightful to know the volts and amps. Thanks.

No idea lol. I just use these:

 

[paulwasabii]

There's gold tinge of color there!

Beautiful, thanks for sharing this with us. It looks almost pearlescent but maybe just your camera.

 

[Dsnuts]

I agree with RikudoukuGoku about resistance on cables. But there are also intangible aspects of cables that unless you tried them it is difficult to not only discuss but to really relate to. It is a case of if you never tried it then you wont know type of aspect.

Folks that don't adhere to cables and what they do will most certainly not try out a $800 Penon Totem cable for example. Why would they since according to non believers materials makes no difference right?

There are clear tiers of cables like we have tiers for earphones. It is highly debatable what makes a higher end cable a higher end cable but I just report on how the cables affect the sonics I am hearing from my earphones. I can argue that these higher end cables is the worse money spent on sound as cables don't all of a sudden change a host earphone sonic signature to a drastic degree. You can't turn an analytical tuning into a full bodied musical one for example and visa versa. But you can tone down or enhance a few aspects of a host earphone tuning using cables which varies depending on cable tier.

I have always thought the best value in cable land are the budget sector as it will not only get you a better made cable but also lasts longer and will be way more premium in feel and ergonomics than any packed in cable included with earphones. Higher end cables are for the extreme and for folks that would like to squeeze out the last 2% of sonics they can from a phone. It does matter what earphone your using such cables on too. You can't expect a $1500 stormbreaker PWA cable on a $20 KBEAR KS1 for example and even if you did use such a cable what is the likelihood there will be any type of real changes to the sonics. Now when you match up such a cable to EE ODIN which from all reports is a very highly resolving sound then your gonna have some effects from the cable.

This is another reason why cables are such hot topic when it comes to effects and beliefs. Just because in a review you see a cable saying it gives greater bass response does not mean that cable will do the exact same for your earphones. How I personally test cables is I try a cable on no less than 5 earphones in all different tiers and I try to get what the cable adds or takes away vs their stock sound tuning. I know that is not the most scientific but it does give me a good idea what changes there are if there is any. Some cables have much less effect than others and again it comes down to the type of cable and what tier of cable we are looking at.

My best advise for you guys and everyone looking into cables is, cables is the last frontier for your earphones. If you hate your cable that comes with your earphones than it is obvious why you would spend some cash and look into a cable. If your source has balanced out and you need a balanced cable that is also very obvious there as well. How much you want to invest in said cable is really up to the owner of their phones. But know certain cables are better than others when it comes to the type of signature your earphone has. If you know the basics then by all means experiment away..

In the end if you get that perfect matching cable for your can or earphone. That is the point of this thread.

 

[PhonoPhi]

I'm not an apple customer, so I can be the judge of whats market fluff for myself

So if you are saying that the cable material doesn't affect the sound, anyone who hears a difference from "exotic" materials, like gold, platinum, palladium, graphene, has a wild imagination ? After all, the first 3 are less conductive than copper and silver and silver is the most conductive and retrieves the lowest resistance with all things being equal.

If thats the case I wonder why they don't make all audiophile cables from pure silver...

Pure silver, gold plated to prevent oxidation in TPE or fluoroelastomer insulation indeed will be a near ideal cable.

In fact, those cables were designed and accepted to be the best many years ago.

But then it will be so much less money made, and yep, less claims how "silver plated" (in many cases silver-coloured) cables magically change the sound of ~$10 IEM.

I personally found after-market cables indispensable for comfort (no tangling and fit), and enjoying the full power of the balanced output.

There can be a significant difference compared to thin stock cable (easily 1.5 Ohm per conductor).

I could not hear any difference below 0.5-0.6 Ohm with my IEMs.
I can imagine with those 8-9 Ohm recent designs and/or better ears than mine people can hear the difference to 0.2-0.3 Ohm - the values for the best cables.

No any evidence were documented that anything else other than resistance matter in cables - after all cables are just conductors. If the goal is to attenuate the sound - DAPs and equalizers suit much better!

Having said this, I can easily imagine how my 24-core blue-gray cable can transend and transform my IEMs into sounding naturally pure, totally massive, with nice effervescent ambiance and subliminally ethereal sparkles!

 

[PhonoPhi]

I agree with RikudoukuGoku about resistance on cables. But there are also intangible aspects of cables that unless you tried them it is difficult to not only discuss but to really relate to. It is a case of if you never tried it then you wont know type of aspect.

Folks that don't adhere to cables and what they do will most certainly not try out a $800 Penon Totem cable for example. Why would they since according to non believers materials makes no difference right?

There are clear tiers of cables like we have tiers for earphones. It is highly debatable what makes a higher end cable a higher end cable but I just report on how the cables affect the sonics I am hearing from my earphones. I can argue that these higher end cables is the worse money spent on sound as cables don't all of a sudden change a host earphone sonic signature to a drastic degree. You can't turn an analytical tuning into a full bodied musical one for example and visa versa. But you can tone down or enhance a few aspects of a host earphone tuning using cables which varies depending on cable tier.

I have always thought the best value in cable land are the budget sector as it will not only get you a better made cable but also lasts longer and will be way more premium in feel and ergonomics than any packed in cable included with earphones. Higher end cables are for the extreme and for folks that would like to squeeze out the last 2% of sonics they can from a phone. It does matter what earphone your using such cables on too. You can't expect a $1500 stormbreaker PW cable on a $20 KBEAR KS1 for example and even if you did use such a cable what is the likelihood there will be any type of real changes to the sonics. Now when you match up such a cable to EE ODIN which from all reports is a very highly resolving sound then your gonna have some effects from the cable.

This is another reason why cables are such hot topic when it comes to effects and beliefs. Just because in a review you see a cable saying it gives greater bass response does not mean that cable will do the exact same for your earphones. How I personally test cables is I try a cable on no less than 5 earphones in all different tiers and I try to get what the cable adds or takes away vs their stock sound tuning. I know that is not the most scientific but it does give me a good idea what changes there are if there is any. Some cables have much less effect than others and again it comes down to the type of cable and what tier of cable we are looking at.

My best advise for you guys and everyone looking into cables is, cables is the last frontier for your earphones. If you hate your cable that comes with your earphones than it is obvious why you would spend some cash and look into a cable. If your source has balanced out and your need a balanced cable that is also very obvious there as well. How much you want to invest is said cable is really up to the owner of their phones. But know certain cables are better than others when it comes to the type of signature your earphone has. If you know the basics then by all means experiment away..

In the end if you get that perfect matching cable for your can or earphone. That is the point of this thread.

Once again, the measurements now are ultimately sensitive to document precise sound changes.
New measurement setups are being developed, as we see here.

So the beleivers of flat Earth get more of my empathy than those preaching onto $800+ cables (but my personal opinion, of course).

 

[paulwasabii]

Some beauty shots of my custom from XINHS. For those who have looked at @RikudouGoku silver/copper mix, the two copper options are bright and dark. This is a cable using the bright copper and maybe the same dark. If you look closely, the bright is the thicker core, the dark is thinner which was necessary to fit 8 cores. Essentially two of the XINHS 4 core copper cables made into a single 8 core.



Thickness from top to bottom: KBEAR Expansion, KBEAR Rhyme, XINHS Custom, FAAEAL


Put it on the multimeter for those who are interested. I use 0.1 for the internal resistance on this unit and clips.


What is strange about the feel of the cable is that it feels better than the two individual 4 cores. For anyone who has purchased these 4 cores, there are on the stiff side but I prefer the 8 core braid which is closer to that 16 core feel. The chin slider was left off as the matching one did not fit and I am not a big fan of the ball.

It is a custom right now so if you are interested in it or something similar, message the store on AliExpress.

Also if you want to see it on video with more background , look here:

 

[PhonoPhi]

I have received my XINHS cables today.

I ordered custom shorter length (60 cm) and explored different insulation materials - the only excuses I can pull to get yet more cables.

The price for all 3 cables were ~$60-63 (really great deal, the core materials are "single crystal copper", I was not looking for anything fancy there).

On the image above - top white/clear is PU (polyurethane) -jacketed, 4-core single copper. It measures at below 0.2 Ohm for 6 cm, being equivalent to 0.3-0.4 Ohm for the standard 1.2-m length.
Bottom right - black TPE (thermoplastic elastomer) 8-core single copper; it measures 0.4-0.5 Ohm in full-length equivalent.
Bottom left is common PVC 24-core, loved the colour, perhaps a bit too vivid. While the thickestitas expected for the 24-core, it measures the highest at 0.5-0.6 Ohm in full-length equivalent, similar to typical 16 cores, since it is reasonable to assume that most of the thickness is insulation.

PU and TPE were the only options available.
In terms of smell, TPE has the least, next to none (likely residuals from being stored with other cables), as expected, since no plasticizers are needed; PU is not void of smell, different from PVC, less but strong and evident...
24-core PVC is not the most smelly that I had, but strong.

In terms of tactile feeling: TPE is rubbery (it is an elastomer after all), I like it and can recommend it as a non-smelly option for black cable lovers

PU did not strike me as any better than PVC. The conductivity of this thick 4-core is very good though.

I will now enjoy my wide- nozzle ASX more than ever (have not got any IEMs in 4 months); just Shanling UA2 is on the way, almost there

P. S. My highest recommendation for XINHS - amazing communication, perfect customization, great prices (no affiliation, paid fully what was asked).

P. P. S. The cable community can take the full credit for XINHS - the strong demand for custom cables made possible suxh great opportunities, I am really grateful for this, as a perhaps not "unconditional cable believer", but enjoying these cables as much as I can

 

[paulwasabii]

I have received my XINHS cables today.

I ordered custom shorter length (60 cm) and explored different insulation materials - the only excuses I can pull to get yet more cables.

The price for all 3 cables were ~$60-63 (really great deal, the core materials are "single crystal copper", I was not looking for anything fancy there).

On the image above - top white/clear is PU (polyurethane) -jacketed, 4-core single copper. It measures at below 0.2 Ohm for 6 cm, being equivalent to 0.3-0.4 Ohm for the standard 1.2-m length.
Bottom right - black TPE (thermoplastic elastomer) 8-core single copper; it measures 0.4-0.5 Ohm in full-length equivalent.
Bottom left is common PVC 24-core, loved the colour, perhaps a bit too vivid. While the thickestitas expected for the 24-core, it measures the highest at 0.5-0.6 Ohm in full-length equivalent, similar to typical 16 cores, since it is reasonable to assume that most of the thickness is insulation.

PU and TPE were the only options available.
In terms of smell, TPE has the least, next to none (likely residuals from being stored with other cables), as expected, since no plasticizers are needed; PU is not void of smell, different from PVC, less but strong and evident...
24-core PVC is not the most smelly that I had, but strong.

In terms of tactile feeling: TPE is rubbery (it is an elastomer after all), I like it and can recommend it as a non-smelly option for black cable lovers

PU did not strike me as any better than PVC. The conductivity of this thick 4-core is very good though.

I will now enjoy my wide- nozzle ASX more than ever (have not got any IEMs in 4 months); just Shanling UA2 is on the way, almost there

P. S. My highest recommendation for XINHS - amazing communication, perfect customization, great prices (no affiliation, paid fully what was asked).

P. P. S. The cable community can take the full credit for XINHS - the strong demand for custom cables made possible suxh great opportunities, I am really grateful for this, as a perhaps not "unconditional cable believer", but enjoying these cables as much as I can

Thank you very much for a close look at the purple. I thought it was going to be a pale shade of purple. And at the same time remembered that XINHS does have the blue/grey 24 core. We were talking about it last night and someone asked him. Not listed, need to ask him about it.

 

[dougms3]

Pure silver, gold plated to prevent oxidation in TPE or fluoroelastomer insulation indeed will be a near ideal cable.

In fact, those cables were designed and accepted to be the best many years ago.

But then it will be so much less money made, and yep, less claims how "silver plated" (in many cases silver-coloured) cables magically change the sound of ~$10 IEM.

I personally found after-market cables indispensable for comfort (no tangling and fit), and enjoying the full power of the balanced output.

There can be a significant difference compared to thin stock cable (easily 1.5 Ohm per conductor).

I could not hear any difference below 0.5-0.6 Ohm with my IEMs.
I can imagine with those 8-9 Ohm recent designs and/or better ears than mine people can hear the difference to 0.2-0.3 Ohm - the values for the best cables.

No any evidence were documented that anything else other than resistance matter in cables - after all cables are just conductors. If the goal is to attenuate the sound - DAPs and equalizers suit much better!

Having said this, I can easily imagine how my 24-core blue-gray cable can transend and transform my IEMs into sounding naturally pure, totally massive, with nice effervescent ambiance and subliminally ethereal sparkles!

Now bare in mind I'm only making a point, I'm not actually saying this.

If I said something like, fell deep for the marketing fluff, snake oil, placebo, wild imagination, flat earther, climate change denier, cables are only for looks, etc. Show the scientific data behind this.

How would you respond? Feel kind of personal doesn't it?

 

[dougms3]

No idea lol. I just use these:

Reason I asked is because the ohms, amperage, voltage all affect each other.

While I do think your test results are highly beneficial to understanding how the cables affect audio, I don't think only the ohms are the be all end all determination. The reason why is because I can wire a speaker or sub in my car at lets say 4 or 8 ohms and it will have no effect on the sound as long as it has enough power to feed the speaker it will sound the same, if it does not have enough power then it will affect the sound. The type of cable, awg thickness, and distance also play a role but I don't know if the same rules apply on a smaller scale as with iems and headphones. However, I'm leaning towards, yes it does affect it.

As Dsnuts mentioned there are quite alot of variables to take into consideration when factoring how these cables influence the sound.

Perhaps a more informative test would be to measure the ohms from the positive and negative terminals on the same plug with the iem or headphone connected. This way the resistance of the driver in the iem/headphone can be measured along with the cable. Voltage wise I think it should be ok but not sure what the amperage of the multimeter is, it may not be safe for the iem, probably not alot but I'm not sure. Would need another multimeter to test the multimeter.

Out of curiosity I tested both the stock cable vs 8 core graphene cable on my Senn 58x since I wasn't worried about the current on headphones.

I got 157.2 ohms (3.5mm SE stock cable) vs 156.2 ohm (2.5mm balanced graphene cable). Doesn't really indicate the difference in sound, because IMO the sound is drastically different.