Lotoo PAW S1 - Designed for HIFI on the go with Lotoo PAW quality and the first USB DAC-AMP with dual 3.5mm & 4.4mm output
Jun 17, 2020 at 5:32 AM Post #376 of 2,329
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the S1 is damn musical!!!!

Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it.
Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music.
Looking forward to the MQA update.

I have always preferred the UAPpro Tidal over the Tidal app. I always feel that there is a V shaped sound signature built into the Tidal app.

I think I find the same experience when using with S1.

I'm enjoying my local music with S1 through PowerAmp, UAPpro and Fiio Music Player.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 5:53 AM Post #377 of 2,329
Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it.
Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music.
Looking forward to the MQA update.

I have always preferred the UAPpro Tidal over the Tidal app. I always feel that there is a V shaped sound signature built into the Tidal app.

I think I find the same experience when using with S1.

I'm enjoying my local music with S1 through PowerAmp, UAPpro and Fiio Music Player.
I wasn't patient enough to wait for the courier to pick up and deliver to me, so I went straight to the seller to pick up the item. Am unboxing it now as I am typing here.
:L3000::L3000::L3000:
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 6:31 AM Post #378 of 2,329
Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it.
Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music.
Looking forward to the MQA update.

I have always preferred the UAPpro Tidal over the Tidal app. I always feel that there is a V shaped sound signature built into the Tidal app.

I think I find the same experience when using with S1.

I'm enjoying my local music with S1 through PowerAmp, UAPpro and Fiio Music Player.
Do you hear any difference between the apps? Actually the should not be any without DSP but would be still interesting to know.
I also like Neutron for SMB share playback.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 7:24 AM Post #380 of 2,329
Initial impression of the S1....Impressive!

Very melodic, reasonable soundstage (just nice for my ears) and punchy bass (am a basshead :ksc75smile:).
Unsure whether analytical is a correct term to add in as it does pick up some external sounds like flipping of page/adjustments of instruments or sort of when hearing Yiruma's Golden Songs with KIWA Live (MQA) from Tidal.

Besides, am hearing from local files stored in my iPhone via Onkyo HF player. Sample rate is accurate per the file but I do noticed the bit depth is always at 32b although is playing CD quality files and 24/96Khz file.

Anyone came across this? Or only mine has this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 1:57 PM Post #383 of 2,329
Do you hear any difference between the apps? Actually the should not be any without DSP but would be still interesting to know.
I also like Neutron for SMB share playback.

I perceive a difference between apps. I'm referring to the use of the USB dacs with my Note10+ smartphone here.
Fiio music seems to give me a rich, dynamic sound. With Android, I usually do not let Fiio app access my USB DACs directly as I always have issues with it so it will use the default Android drivers.
UAPpro sounds lighter with a more balanced detailed sound. I generally will let UAPpro connect directly to the USB DACs as it works flawlessly when I do. I get access to the 96khz driver, but I do also listen in Bitperfect mode as well. I much prefer the Tidal sound from this app rather than the Tidal app because it has a nicer balanced sound to it.
PowerAMP seems more simlar to UAPpro , but I appear to get a little more hiss from it. I use their specific Hi-Res audio driver. I've had PowerAmp from day one. I think it was the first Android music amp I ever bought. I generally don't EQ, but sometimes if I have an urge to tinker I use PowerAmp as I like their way of saving the headphone EQ profiles.

I guess each app have a little difference with their sound signatures because they each connect to my DACs in slightly different ways.

The S1 is a very competent little beast. All the apps sound great through it. When I first demoed it I was struck by the wide sound-stage and the wonderfully layered sound. Reminds me very much of my Ibasso DX160. I'm thinking perhaps a warmer sound signature helps the separation of the higher and the lower frequencies. I also have the BTR5 and when I USB it to the phone I do get a wonderful rich sound from it, but I don't feel that I get the same layered depth to it.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 2:18 PM Post #384 of 2,329
Just an fyi for people with the same gear/apps:

I have noticed a weird bug with Onkyo HF player on Android. Initially it recognizes the S1 after turning on OTG mode and works fine, but often it will crash. This doesn't happen on any other music apps (tidal or gpm).

Also when using my Macbook (USB A), I get an intermittent disconnect/reconnect at random when running directly to the laptop. But when I use a USB hub (not powered) there is no such issue.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 9:07 PM Post #385 of 2,329
Just an fyi for people with the same gear/apps:

I have noticed a weird bug with Onkyo HF player on Android. Initially it recognizes the S1 after turning on OTG mode and works fine, but often it will crash. This doesn't happen on any other music apps (tidal or gpm).

Also when using my Macbook (USB A), I get an intermittent disconnect/reconnect at random when running directly to the laptop. But when I use a USB hub (not powered) there is no such issue.
I’ve been burning in the S1 yesterday from IOS via Onkyo HF and it’s working fine.
But something very very strange happened to my S1, which is paving the path for me to return the unit.
I have tested out 3 balanced ended cable (2 are direct ended while the other is using a 2.5 female to 4.4 male adapter) with the S1, and 1 of the direct ended cable has no sound coming out of the S1 balanced port. Tried plugging it into iFi Hip DAC balanced port, and it’s working fine. It only came have sound coming from the S1 when I plugged in to the unbalanced port using a converter.
I don’t mind the other 2 cables have issues, but to my newly purchased IE80s and upgraded Null Audio cable (which kinda be my endgame IEM and daily use item), that really is a big bummer for me.
CRIESSSS!!
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 9:25 PM Post #386 of 2,329
Thanks much!
Just got mine, intend to pair it with the small Fiio M6.
i hate to rain on your parade, but my M6 does not play at all when paired with the S1. The S1 powers on but no sound from any of my installed players. For the most part, my M6 seems to be unresponsive to inputs as well. I would appreciate hearing back whether you experience the same issues.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 10:08 PM Post #387 of 2,329
I’ve been burning in the S1 yesterday from IOS via Onkyo HF and it’s working fine.
But something very very strange happened to my S1, which is paving the path for me to return the unit.
I have tested out 3 balanced ended cable (2 are direct ended while the other is using a 2.5 female to 4.4 male adapter) with the S1, and 1 of the direct ended cable has no sound coming out of the S1 balanced port. Tried plugging it into iFi Hip DAC balanced port, and it’s working fine. It only came have sound coming from the S1 when I plugged in to the unbalanced port using a converter.
I don’t mind the other 2 cables have issues, but to my newly purchased IE80s and upgraded Null Audio cable (which kinda be my endgame IEM and daily use item), that really is a big bummer for me.
CRIESSSS!!

When using the S1 with 4.4 cables/adapters when it was new, I noticed the 4.4mm port was very tight. Sometimes I didn't get any sound because the connectors were not fully inserted, like .1mm not inserted. So try using some extra force when inserting 4.4mm connections into the new S1. After a couple insertions/removals the 4.4mm port loosened up slightly.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 11:20 PM Post #388 of 2,329
i hate to rain on your parade, but my M6 does not play at all when paired with the S1. The S1 powers on but no sound from any of my installed players. For the most part, my M6 seems to be unresponsive to inputs as well. I would appreciate hearing back whether you experience the same issues.

Hi. It worked on my M6. Tried Hiby, Spotify and Tidal.
But playing Tidal master will stutter :frowning2: maybe M6 didn't have enough juice.
 
Jun 17, 2020 at 11:34 PM Post #389 of 2,329
When using the S1 with 4.4 cables/adapters when it was new, I noticed the 4.4mm port was very tight. Sometimes I didn't get any sound because the connectors were not fully inserted, like .1mm not inserted. So try using some extra force when inserting 4.4mm connections into the new S1. After a couple insertions/removals the 4.4mm port loosened up slightly.
Yes I encountered the same.
 
Jun 18, 2020 at 4:41 AM Post #390 of 2,329
So I got the Lotoo S1 yesterday and just received the iFi Hip DAC about an hour ago. I have been A/B'ing the two units for about half an hour now with my pair of Final Audio B3 IEM's which are a relatively neutral set of IEM's out of the 4.4 balanced output on both DAC's.

My initial impressions of the Lotoo S1 is that it is very neutral sounding in general and definitely seems more reference in its presentation. There is no emphasis on any region of the sound signature and everything is presented as is according to the music. I have heard from others who have posted on this thread previously that the "dental" EQ setting improved on the detail presentation of the S1 which I also found to be true. The dental EQ does make the S1 sound a little but more clear and airy in its presentation. The S1 is very clean sounding and I would recommend the S1 for those that are looking for a cleaner/reference sound. Some things I felt the S1 was a little lacking in was how it affected instrument decay and soundstage. However, I believe this is due to do with the power output of the S1 more than anything. My Final B3's are relatively inefficient when it comes to the power needed. The 120 mW power output out of the balanced connection on the S1 does seems a little inadequate for my Final B3's. With insufficient power, my IEM's exhibit a smaller soundstage. Through the S1, the soundstage was smaller and this lead to music being more "in your face" from the instruments to the vocals. Some might like this presentation, but for me personally I wished there was more space in the soundstage. Instrument decay seemed to be a little shorter than on the iFi Hip DAC.

Moving on to the iFi Hip DAC, my initial impressions after about 30 minutes of use is very different to that of the S1. I would describe the Hip DAC (in comparison to the S1) to be more lush/warm in its sound delivery with more bass presence and vocal forwardness. The mid bass is more present than on the S1 which has a more linear approach to each region of the sound frequency response. I also noticed that vocals are more forward and seem to float above the instruments ever so slightly, and sounded fuller and more lush whereas the S1 vocals sounded a little more thin/crisp in comparison. The vocals also have a more shimmery presentation/decay when compared to the S1. The soundstage on the Hip DAC is definitely more wide than compared to the S1 with more width (the instruments and vocals are a little further out). To me personally, this lead to the sensation of more space between each instrument and the vocals, which gave the impression of a less "in your face" presentation. I think this increase in soundstage is due to the higher power output of the balanced output of the Hip DAC (400 mW compared to the 120 mW of the S1). I also tried out the xBass function of the Hip DAC and found that it does elevate the bass region in a tasteful way, but it does sometimes bleed into the midrange, causing the vocals to become a little muddy when compared to the xBass being off. Also as a side note, the iFi Hip DAC on high gain out of the balanced 4.4 output did have some audible background noise.

Please keep in mind these are impressions from a very short period of use and these are just things that stood out to me initially. But as of right now, I personally am leaning towards the Hip DAC due to its wider soundstage presentation and warmer/lusher sound when compared to the S1. Since my IEM's are relatively neutral with a sub-bass rolloff, the warmth added by the Hip DAC is enjoyable to listen to. The Hip DAC definitely provides a more relaxed listening experience whereas the S1 is definitely more neutral and reference. I appreciate how clean sounding the S1 is in general and would recommend it to those looking for a brighter/more neutral sound or for those with warmer gear and want to have a very portable AMP/DAC dongle that does not color the sound and instead takes a step back, allowing the gear to shine through. The Hip DAC I would recommend to those that are looking for a warmer, more lush, more musical, and more relaxing experience. I think if you already have warm sounding headphones/IEM's the Hip DAC would color the sound a little too much imo, but if you have neutral/bright equipment and you are looking to add some warmth, the Hip DAC is perfect for you. Also if you have harder to drive equipment that needs more power, I would recommend the Hip DAC over the S1. If it is portability you are after, the S1 wins hands down. This wraps up my thoughts for now and feel free to ask questions.

Hello, Thank you for impression, can you please provide update any sound differences after hours of usage? and which one have lowest noise floor in sensitive iems?
 

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