Lotoo PAW S1 - Designed for HIFI on the go with Lotoo PAW quality and the first USB DAC-AMP with dual 3.5mm & 4.4mm output
Mar 7, 2021 at 3:17 AM Post #1,801 of 2,307

sulfuriq

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S1 has significantly greater feature set and build quality than the S9. The DAC chip is only a part of the equation, and a lower end DAC chip can give superior sound if the overall implementation is better. I have both and it is no surprise to me the S1 would be more expensive than the S9.
Yes, I agree with you. For example like the Burr Brown DAC chip used by iFi/AMR in their dac/amp is fully modified in which the user can update the filter or sound signature that they like most. DAC chip is not the end game. Even using the Qualcomm DAC should be enough for some people with proper amplifier like FiiO A3. Last time I tried an Ultra Cheap USB DAC that using Sabre DAC chip but died on me after using several time. These external DAC/AMP usually will get hot especially when you playing high-res.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868505086.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dEcb55z
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 3:55 AM Post #1,802 of 2,307

GoldenTooth

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I will have to play with both again tomorrow. Last I remember the mids on the S1 were much more full than the S9, giving the S1 a warmer (and to me more pleasing) sound compared to a leaner sound on the S9... but that is just from memory...
Thanks, please keep me posted after you do the test :sweat_smile:, because i will order one of them from Amazon soon.
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 4:23 AM Post #1,803 of 2,307

FooFighter

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After long listening at night I really find the pairing with my Andro Golds and IPHONE11PRO running Tidal sublime.
Clarity in high registers without piercing stage and good low end.
Am happy with them
EMI is there from time to time depending on position of the player in relation to the phone but not very loud and not audible once music is playing.

One thing though (it's my first dongle without battery): it's drinking like a Ferrari.
I will look into some external battery solution and Y lightning adapter.
Any experience / suggestions here?
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 5:29 AM Post #1,805 of 2,307

sulfuriq

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After long listening at night I really find the pairing with my Andro Golds and IPHONE11PRO running Tidal sublime.
Clarity in high registers without piercing stage and good low end.
Am happy with them
EMI is there from time to time depending on position of the player in relation to the phone but not very loud and not audible once music is playing.

One thing though (it's my first dongle without battery): it's drinking like a Ferrari.
I will look into some external battery solution and Y lightning adapter.
Any experience / suggestions here?
I have been using Zerolemon External Battery for my Note 3 for almost 10 years.
https://zerolemon.com/collections/apple

.
Screenshot 2021-03-07 181420.jpg
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 6:18 AM Post #1,806 of 2,307

FooFighter

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Sorry, if that has been asked before:
Equalizer is disabled when playing MQA files?
A-B ing IPhone vs UApp Android I prefer SQ of UApp Android, it's clearer, more transparent 🙄
But that's in general an impression I have collected with other DAPs too...
Android USB C cable connection with my Motorola unfortunately very unstable
I put it in back pocket and connection is lost - not so with the IPhone...
Skipping tracks with Iwatch of course most convenient.
Folding dongle and usb cables behind iPhone in back pocket is leading to sporadic EMI 🙄
Can someone share his workaround for EMI like using e.g. clips and thereby getting the dongle more distant from the phone?
 
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Mar 7, 2021 at 7:11 AM Post #1,807 of 2,307

felix3650

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Somehow my S1 isn't noisy as you guys are reporting here:thinking:
Of the few times I've used it at home it was with the standard cable and near my Zenfone 6. Also battery consumption was pretty low. I saw a max 3% per hour whereas I'm seeing a 2% per hour by using UAPP with my phone directly..another strange thing..maybe a bug with UAPP?
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 7:14 AM Post #1,808 of 2,307

sulfuriq

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Sorry, if that has been asked before:
Equalizer is disabled when playing MQA files?
A-B ing IPhone vs UApp Android I prefer SQ of UApp Android, it's clearer, more transparent 🙄
But that's in general an impression I have collected with other DAPs too...
Android USB C cable connection with my Motorola unfortunately very unstable
I put it in back pocket and connection is lost - not so with the IPhone...
Skipping tracks with Iwatch of course most convenient.
Folding dongle and usb cables behind iPhone in back pocket is leading to sporadic EMI 🙄
Can someone share his workaround for EMI like using e.g. clips and thereby getting the dongle more distant from the phone?
Yep, you can only use Gain, it need bit-perfect to recognize the MQA.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/21653-official-tidal-hifi-streaming-issues-thread/page/39/
1615118345098.png


UAPP is using it's own USB DAC driver
"When connecting an Android phone or tablet to a USB DAC, USB Audio Player PRO will unleash the full power of the DAC, by using our custom developed USB audio driver. This bypasses the Android audio system completely, meaning that Android's limitations regarding bit resolution and sample rate (16-bit/48kHz) are made irrelevant and high quality audio streams are fed directly to the DAC, making playback up to 32-bit at 384kHz possible (depending on the DAC capabilities) or even DSD."

Probably the Motorola USB socket got loose because mine is having a sturdy connection on OnePlus 7T USB-C port. I think you need a longer OTG cable since you can only control the volume from S1 or use Velcro tape for your S1 to keep it in place you wanted.
 
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Mar 7, 2021 at 8:06 AM Post #1,810 of 2,307

waveSounds

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A tip for anyone using a USB C to C cable; all USB C cables are OTG inherently. You can use any C to C cable so long as it supports data transfer (which, in theory, should be all of them).
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 8:16 AM Post #1,811 of 2,307

FooFighter

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Somehow my S1 isn't noisy as you guys are reporting here:thinking:
Of the few times I've used it at home it was with the standard cable and near my Zenfone 6. Also battery consumption was pretty low. I saw a max 3% per hour whereas I'm seeing a 2% per hour by using UAPP with my phone directly..another strange thing..maybe a bug with UAPP?
EMI is I think very much depending on the phone.
Newer IPhones have been reported as EMI monsters before in this thread.
When laying on couch with phone and S1 seperated it can be worked around but when cramped in your jeans they are too close...
I need to examine the battery thing more closely and only playing music without surfing etc but your mentioned numbers at least didn't apply to my IPhone11Pro pairing yesterday. Might also again depend on
- pairing again...
- flac resolution, respectively MQA decoding might need significantly more juice... I played a lot MQA yesterday...
 
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Mar 7, 2021 at 8:54 AM Post #1,812 of 2,307

KowalskiFUT

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EMI is I think very much depending on the phone.
Newer IPhones have been reported as EMI monsters before in this thread.
When laying on couch with phone and S1 seperated it can be worked around but when cramped in your jeans they are too close...
I need to examine the battery thing more closely and only playing music without surfing etc but your mentioned numbers at least didn't apply to my IPhone11Pro pairing yesterday. Might also again depend on
- pairing again...
- flac resolution, respectively MQA decoding might need significantly more juice... I played a lot MQA yesterday...

Got 11 Pro Max, and it has, like generation or two of models before, some crap Intel antenna; instead of Qualcomm. So that may be the reason.
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 12:45 PM Post #1,813 of 2,307

alal

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Agreed. I will reach out to UAPP on this.
Did reach out to UAPP who provided a prompt reply.
They say it looks as it should and that UAPP cannot know which sample rate the DAC unfolds and shows the sample rate being sent to the DAC. UAPP does not show any light when playing MQA (green, blue or magenta), because the DAC is doing everything.
Also asked why the DAC shows 32bit rate regardless of what is playing and they also said that UAPP always use the highest supported bit rate by the DAC.
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 1:20 PM Post #1,814 of 2,307

FooFighter

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Did reach out to UAPP who provided a prompt reply.
They say it looks as it should and that UAPP cannot know which sample rate the DAC unfolds and shows the sample rate being sent to the DAC. UAPP does not show any light when playing MQA (green, blue or magenta), because the DAC is doing everything.
Also asked why the DAC shows 32bit rate regardless of what is playing and they also said that UAPP always use the highest supported bit rate by the DAC.
Thx!
So we re coming to the point where we have to trust the S1 display?
Several questions come to my mind

1.) 32 bit is shown regardless if UApp is used or Tidal native app
As far as I know bit depth is not part of the MQA unfolding process?
Therefore this then must be either
a) upsampling (who does it then: UApp, respectively Tidal app or S1?)
b) wrong display

2.) unfolding bit rate is at least in my setups never correctly calculated on S1 display but only either OFS 4x (IOS) or MQA 4x (Android) displayed
I saw one exception in some earlier post (I think it was some Note 3 phone) where S1 was showing a higher bit rate than 44/48khz on its display.
Is that a bug or a feature?

Time to ask Lotoo...

I wanted to do yesterday but mail adress is not reachable from Germany...
I was suggested to contact their representative on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/hanako.yu.7) but don't have a Facebook account and also don't want to create one now extra 🙄
 
Mar 7, 2021 at 1:47 PM Post #1,815 of 2,307

jsmiller58

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Thx!
So we re coming to the point where we have to trust the S1 display?
Several questions come to my mind

1.) 32 bit is shown regardless if UApp is used or Tidal native app
As far as I know bit depth is not part of the MQA unfolding process?
Therefore this then must be either
a) upsampling (who does it then: UApp, respectively Tidal app or S1?)
b) wrong display

2.) unfolding bit rate is at least in my setups never correctly calculated on S1 display but only either OFS 4x (IOS) or MQA 4x (Android) displayed
I saw one exception in some earlier post (I think it was some Note 3 phone) where S1 was showing a higher bit rate than 44/48khz on its display.
Is that a bug or a feature?

Time to ask Lotoo...

I wanted to do yesterday but mail adress is not reachable from Germany...
I was suggested to contact their representative on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/hanako.yu.7) but don't have a Facebook account and also don't want to create one now extra 🙄
I think that Lotoo, or UAPP, are filling the extra bits with 0s... but it would definitely be interesting to see what they say!
 

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