[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Last time he accessed was 3 months ago...don't know if he will answer..

The "headphone which has a natural tonality of the Sennheiser HD600 or STAX SR L300 combined with planar like bass" he was mentioning I found it in the Audio Zenith PMx2 ver 2. Don't know if the modder is still making it. Give a Alex message: http://www.audiozenith.com/contact-form/

 

[Deolum]

Most probably he won't but i think there are more people who want to upgrade from a HD600 and don't fall into the pseudoupgrade zone of LCD X, Beyerdynamics or whatever.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Hey there,


a family member did buy a new set of speakers the last month.

As my living room is not suitable for a set of speakers, I want to improve on the already owned HD600 and HD6XX. The new headphone should be suitable for all genres.


What I am looking for:

Natural tonality – especially for wooden instruments (e.g. strings) or brass instruments (e.g. trumpets).

More extension in frequency response

More resolution

More soundstage

Neutral response*


*If there is deviation and I would be forced to choose between a darker and a brighter headphone in the treble region, I would choose the brighter. However, I do not like extremes.



Maximum Budget

EUR 1800


Auditioned Headphones:

Audeze LCD- X

Sennheiser HD800 s

Hifiman Ananda

Hifiman Arya

Stax SR L300 with Srm-252s

Stax SR L500 with Srm-252s


AMP/Energizer:

Schiit Magni 3+ for Single Ended

SRM 252S for STAX


Findings:

Technically all auditioned headphones were superior in a technical sense to the HD600.

This manifested mainly in detail, resolution and soundstage.


However, all auditioned headphones, except for the STAX SRL 300, failed in the recreation of natural tonality. Some quite severely. This was easily heard with orchestral soundtracks and to some extend in vocals.


So why not go for the SR L300?

The SR L300 lacked low end extension and control. It was similar, maybe even slightly worse to the HD600 and much worse to planar bass in terms of extension, quality and quantity. Considering the asking price of EUR 1000,- (including the energizer) and the fact that I am looking for an allrounder this would have been a too much of a compromise and lack for bass heavy genres like RAP and EDM.


Question:

Is there a headphone which has a natural tonality of the Sennheiser HD600 or STAX SR L300 combined with planar like bass?



Bonus: Extended description of Listening Session:

The listening session was done with two people.

We both had extremely similar hearing impressions.

We do attend from time to time real orchestral concerts in a good symphony hall.


Please bear in mind that these impressions are relative to the headphones owned and auditioned and the experience gathered during live orchestra sessions. Vocabulary may not be 100% fitting as we are no journalists and no native speakers.


Please do not take any “cons” mentioned hereafter personally or as an insult to anybodies taste or buying decision made in the past.


Lastly and most importantly. Have fun!



Music:

Wild mix of genre and songs.


Auditioned songs/albums: Chris Jones Roadhouse Automobiles, John Williams (e.g. Star Wars Episode 9), Hans Zimmer (e.g. Interstellar), Madonna (Ray of light), Rap, Top50 etc.


LCD-X:

Comfort: Heavy and on the edge on being tolerable.

Build: Great


Sound: Very very dark and muffled for most genres!

Far away from neutral (if HD600 is).

Much(!) darker and more veiled than the HD6XX (HD6XX on its own is okay for me).

Due to the issue in tonality this headphone was quickly put aside.


Pro: Basslines were exceptionally well presented, textured and detailed.

Bass sounded the best I heard to date.


Contra: Lacked correct tonality and was very muffled.

Some peaks in the higher octaves were present which resulted in a strange shift in loudness depending on the played
note.


Note: In all fairness, some people seem indeed to have heard very good and neutral versions of the LCD X.

However, others seemed to report from quite a lot of driver variance.

Maybe this was a bad sample.

I am still a lit puzzled as I can barely imagine what other, darker versions must sound in the case this was a normal
version.




Hifiman Arya (“old” revision with the dustcover attached to the earpads)

Comfort: Very comfortable. Large earpads were a non- issue for seal.

Build: Good enough to consider it okay for me.

No creaks or strange build issues the auditioned sample.


Sound:


Signature: Perceived as V-Shaped.

However, the lack of linear extension of the existing headphone HD600 probably

skewed my judgement here. In general, this is probably more likely a neutral to

neutral bright headphone with a dip in the upper mids.

Pro:

Great extension to both ends of the frequency response.

Planar control of base.

Great sense of a black background

Soundstage showed impressive layering and was quite holographic and surprising in height. In terms of width, only
HD800 was wider.

Dynamics are good enough for me

Con:

Tonality was off (“plasticky, hollow”). Especially noticeable on wooden instruments like strings.

Highs were in some areas quite peaky. As a result, some tones and voices sounded

borderline to become harsh, however not on HD800 level.

Vocals sounded subjectively worse in tonality than HD600 and “s” “t” sounds were sometimes a little bit edgy.

However, tonality is an issue for almost all headphones here except maybe for the STAX SR L300.


Hifiman Ananda:

Comfort: Good weight, however worse than ARYA as the Cups do not swivel.

Sound:

Signature: Sounded more focused on the mids (than Arya). Sounded artificial and had less soundstage/closer sounding.
Was quickly disregarded. Just not our cup of tea.

Sennheiser HD800s:

Comfort: Very comfortable, clamp could have been a little bit higher.

Build: Very good for the headphones.

However, I would like to see another type of cable sleeve (no issue with quality itself)


Sound: Leaning towards analytical and bright.

Pro: Great sense of air and detail retrieval.

Not as ear piercing as expected.

Great soundstage (see con)

Wooden instruments and brass sounded tonally believable enough.


Con: Overall (still) too bass light.

Lacked extensions and quantity in the lower registers compared to the elevated highs and lacked control to planar
bass.

Showed (still) some glare/resonance to my ears which was especially noticeable during complex classic tracks.

mildly fatiguing

Soundstage sounded artificially boosted in some Pop tracks.


STAX SR L300

Comfort: Okay, but ears touched the inside of the dust cover.

Build: Cheap plastic. Must be handled with (extreme) care. Creaks.

However, I have not heard reports about longevity issues.


Sound: Neutral with a good amount of bass hump around 100 hz

(for the auditioned sample).

Tonally close to HD600 with more air to the highs and more body for wooden instruments.


Pro:

Tonally the most accurate representation of a live orchestra I have heard to date out of a headphone

Soundstage was good enough in size and with nice separation and enough depth. Certainly no HD800s or Arya.

Contra:

Lacks extension and control in base (compared to planar)

(Quite similar in extension to HD600)

Lower bass lines below 50hz (a guestimate) are barely/not represented due to sharp drop in loudness.

Less than neutral amount of bass below the 100hz hump.

Maybe a little bit too much body and warmth on this set but still very enjoyable.


STAX SR L500

Comfort: Good due to the thicker pads. Ears did not touch the dust cover anymore.

Build: Same as above L300

Sound: This exemplar was requested as a last hope by me as I hoped to find more bass extension with the same tonality
and more control.

Much brighter and thinner sounding than the SR L300

It did have more control, however not more extension. Maybe a tiny little bit.

Note: I am not sure the difference should be that large in tonality between the L300 and SR L500. However, the store owner confirmed the general lack of extension and heft.

If you want natural sounding timbre, you need to get Dynamic Driver headphones. As much as I like magnetic planar headphones, they don't match DD for natural timbre. I would look at the ZMF headphones. Probably Aeolus or Auteur given your specs.

 

[BlueMountain]

Good you brought up this thread. His descriptions are so on point. I even saw i already left a comment in this thread lol.

I'm looking for exactly the same "headphone which has a natural tonality of the Sennheiser HD600 or STAX SR L300 combined with planar like bass".

I really wonder which LCD-X he listened to though. I agree that it isn't a good headphone but very dark? I remember the LCD-X to be brighter than LCD 2 and LCD 3.

One headphone that maybe could fit the bill is the Grado PS1000e. Only listened to the PS2000e but it was a pretty solid allrounder with hefty bass while maintaining an overall neutral FR. Tonality was equally great. Female vocals were on par with HD600, male vocals and instruments, especially pianos, were superior. Soundstage was maybe the best i've heard together with the Utopia.

So PS1000e could be a good choice here.

(Didn't keep 2000e because comfort sucks so hard, Grado qc, very heavy and attached crap cable on a flagship headphone)

Currently having a HE1000 V2 on the way. Maybe that will be an improvement over the HD600.

Maybe unexpected, but here I am.
Thanks for your recommendations.
Actually, thanks to all of the contributors.
Did not expect to see new posts appearing that long after my initial post.

Specifically to your question regarding the LCDX-Revision:
Not sure when the LCD-X was manufactured, but it was a brand new delivery to Thomann (where I bought it from).
I had to wait for a couple of weeks before I got them. They were on backorder for a long time.

Based on the reviews/measurements, which appeared throughout 2020, I am sure it was the "2020 revision".
Please have a look at the measurement in this Video (timestap is within the link). How to EQ Headphones - Featuring Audeze LCD-X 2020 (not 2021)
For this revision, the frequency response from 1khz to almost 5khz is very recessed.
This measurement does match my listening impression.

To me the most fitting description is "muffled".
I am not insisting on that they sound "dark". Maybe it is even the wrong terminology as they have quite a lot of air.
However, 1 to 5khz is a key area for many instruments. 1 to 5khz covers the complete 6th and 7th octave and the beginning of 8th octave.
7th and beginning of 8th octave is quite high notes already. Maybe that is why I thought they were dark.

The 2021 version is supposedly (much) better for 1 to 5khz, but did not listen to them in person.
To be more precise, I did not listen to any new headphones since the audition in January 2020.
When the stores closed due to the pandemic, I had a lot of time to spent with my current setup and to reflect on my experiences and requirements.
In the end I decided to stick with my current setup.

The search is not over (is it ever?), but it is postponed to another day in the future.

 

[Deolum]

My search ended with the Susvara. Basically a HD650 on steroids for me and the most natural sounding planar i know.

 

[mendye770]

My search ended with the Susvara. Basically a HD650 on steroids for me and the most natural sounding planar i know.

Have u ever heard the zmf verite?

 

[stpope]

I'd like to chime in again to say that after trying over a dozen alternatives, I'm back with Sennheiser HD650s.

It's easier to apply a little bass boost with them than to repair all the problems with the "modern" planar or electrostatic cans.

stp

 

[Deolum]

Have u ever heard the zmf verite?

No pretty hard to find one for a good price in Germany. If i'd go for one i'd go for the closed one but i'm not that into closed backs anyway so i just use my IEMs for that.

I'd like to chime in again to say that after trying over a dozen alternatives, I'm back with Sennheiser HD650s.

It's easier to apply a little bass boost with them than to repair all the problems with the "modern" planar or electrostatic cans.

stp

Did you try the SR-007 Mk1? This one is also really good and similiar to HD650 and Susvara.

 

[stpope]

My price limit is around $2000, so I haven't auditioned the Susvara or the SR-007.

 

[ScubadudeSA]

I once sold my HD600's because I thought they were too similar to the HD800. I have since bought another pair or two - no collection should be without an HD600. As for possible upgrade from HD600, I rate these highly:

• HD800 - better detail, transparency and attack than HD600. Almost as neutral (provided SDR mod applied) as HD600, and decent bass extension if your reference is live, natural instruments.
• HE560 - Not quite as neutral as HD600, but gets close with a thicker sounding amp. Great detail retrieval, hard hitting (if a little lean) bass. Ticks the suitable for all genre's box better than most.
• L500 - I really adore this set but only comes to life with 353x or better energiser - 252s makes it sound like "honey I shrunk the music". For me the most impactful bass of the Lambda series.

 

[Deolum]

HE560 sounds for me like a planar version of the HD650.

 

[robm321]

The Focal Clears are like a much better HD600s. They are discontinued in place of the Clear MG which is more colored. I believe headphones.com has some left, but they could be gone. They bought a batch and lowered the price to under $1K.