Looking for help hooking up passive speakers - amp required?

[Panterken]

I have these paradigm monitor 7's and would like tips to drive these passive speakers. My Adam A3x's are active so I currently don't have an amp, I do have an audioquest dragonfly black 1.5 so that's also usable as a preamp unless I'm mistaken?

 
Please move this to an appropriate forum if this isn't okay, it's been a while since I researched the technical lingo of audiophiles.
 
Thank you

 

[PurpleAngel]

If your looking for a low cost speaker amplifier, check out Parts-Express.
Or your local Craigslist.

 

[StarTreker]

A receiver or an amp that is at least 200 watt that has a RCA input source and speaker outputs on the back should be more then capable of driving a set of speakers. But always try to match the receiver or amp to your speakers requirements. So, say you got some big boys that need 200 watts each, then get a 500 watt receiver or amp so you can have a little headroom.

 

[Panterken]

Okay, I found this:  Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 – 180 watts Maximum Input Power 130 watts
 
http://www.paradigm.com/products-hidden/model=monitor7-v3/page=specs
 
I'm actually not sure which version of the studio 7 they are, don't think there's enough of a difference between them to have an influence on my choice of amp. 
 
I don't know how to interpret this. I used to know a thing or two when I had a couple of headphones and when I first bought my adam's but that's been years and years. Let me clarify: I don't need an amp that can double as a headphone amp so a receiver might be better. I just want to get to hear what these speakers are capable so too weak in wattage is out of the question, but I don't want to break the bank either. 
 
Am I better off posting on some paradigm forum because some amps will combine better with the specific sound of these studio 7's. I bought my dragonfly because I use a laptop as input downstairs but these Paradigms would be for in my bedroom, not necessarily hooked up to said laptop (though I don't have a turntable). 
 
Thanks.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panterken /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have these paradigm monitor 7's and would like tips to drive these passive speakers. My Adam A3x's are active so I currently don't have an amp, I do have an audioquest dragonfly black 1.5 so that's also usable as a preamp unless I'm mistaken?

 

Please move this to an appropriate forum if this isn't okay, it's been a while since I researched the technical lingo of audiophiles.

 

The Dragonfly doesn't have a real preamp output, which is basically just a volume control. The output on it will still go through the headphone amplification stage. You could still connect them but it isn't really optimal, and you wouldn't have the preamp control off the Dragonfly so what you should get is an integrated amplifier. Bascally any amplifier that has a volume control on it. If the voltage output on the Dragonfly is too powerful since it goes through the headphone amp stage then you'll have no choice but to lower the volume on the operating system as the Dragonfly has no separate preamp output, but otherwise Audioquest has designed it so it won't result in the bit depth going below 16bits.

 

One other option is to get an integrated amp with a USB input (larger ones would be classified as receivers by their manufacturers) like the NAD D3020, and then just swap between the Dragonfly and that amp. You can have both connected and just manually select the output device.

 

[Panterken]

 

 

The Dragonfly doesn't have a real preamp output, which is basically just a volume control. The output on it will still go through the headphone amplification stage. You could still connect them but it isn't really optimal, and you wouldn't have the preamp control off the Dragonfly so what you should get is an integrated amplifier. Bascally any amplifier that has a volume control on it. If the voltage output on the Dragonfly is too powerful since it goes through the headphone amp stage then you'll have no choice but to lower the volume on the operating system as the Dragonfly has no separate preamp output, but otherwise Audioquest has designed it so it won't result in the bit depth going below 16bits.

 

One other option is to get an integrated amp with a USB input (larger ones would be classified as receivers by their manufacturers) like the NAD D3020, and then just swap between the Dragonfly and that amp. You can have both connected and just manually select the output device.

 
Okay, this is helpful. My brother has the NAD D3020 but they're €399 and that's more than what I paid for the Speakers. On a paradigm thread I was refered to the AI-101DA which run €100 cheaper. I'm still confused about the wattage required, as another poster in this thread alluded to it's importance. 
 
The TEAC: 26W + 26W Built-in Class-D Power Amplifier
NAD: 2 x 30W @ ≤0.005% THD, >100W Dynamic Power @ 4 Ohms
Paradigm speakers: Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 – 180 watts Maximum Input Power 130 watts
 

1. Besides not knowing how I should interpret these specs, I don't need high volume and from what I gather watts is just about volume, right? 

 
Just to satisfy my curiosity: my brother tells me he's hooked up the NAD D3020 with a preamp but what you're saying is because it's integrated, that was unnecessary? Also, his speakers are q acoustics 2020i and I always felt only speakers who run two, three, four times their cost (like the paradigms) would benefit from a €400 amp.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panterken /img/forum/go_quote.gif

On a paradigm thread I was refered to the AI-101DA which run €100 cheaper. I'm still confused about the wattage required, as another poster in this thread alluded to it's importance. 

 

The TEAC: 26W + 26W Built-in Class-D Power Amplifier

NAD: 2 x 30W @ ≤0.005% THD, >100W Dynamic Power @ 4 Ohms

Paradigm speakers: Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 – 180 watts Maximum Input Power 130 watts

 

1. Besides not knowing how I should interpret these specs, I don't need high volume and from what I gather watts is just about volume, right? 

 

Watts is one half of what determines how loud the speakers will go, the other half is how high the sensitivity of the speakers is. Look up the specs on your particular version of the Monitor 7, unless someone has used the amp they're recommending with it. When they recommend 15watts minimum it could mean listening at 70dB in a small room. The sensitivity is a better indicator, but again how far you sit from them will be a factor since speakers are usually measured at 1m away.

 

That aside I'm more into looking at THD than the wattage. Having an amp rating like how HT receivers are measured, which is along the lines of, "165watts X 7channels" and then somewhere in the detailed instruction booklet it's followed by the fine print, "1% THD, one channel loaded." That basically means the power supply was running the digital side of that receiver and only one analogue amplification channel, which in other words is not how they will be used in practice, and even then it's already at 1% distortion. The reality might be closer to "75watts X 7channels, 1% THD, all channels driven," which means you will get far less than 75watts if you want to keep distortion levels low.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panterken /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Okay, this is helpful. My brother has the NAD D3020 but they're €399 and that's more than what I paid for the Speakers. Also, his speakers are q acoustics 2020i and I always felt only speakers who run two, three, four times their cost (like the paradigms) would benefit from a €400 amp.

 

Yeah but what version of the Paradigm 7 are these? I could pick up, say, a Focal Utopia from 10years ago, and I'd still probably need a sizable amplifier to drive them well enough if it's one of the humongous towers. In such a case then instead of buying a $3,000 amplifier new then I'd look up local classified and look for amps from the same area that sold for $2,000 at the time but I could get them for a lot less than $1,000 nowadays, unless they're extremely rare.

 

And again there are a lot of reasons and specs other than MSRP or what you paid for a speaker that will determine how much you will spend on an amplifier, and what kind. Wharfedale speakers for example are cheap here but if you grabbed for example some cheap amplifier off some random store it's going to struggle driving a speaker with a sensitivity of 87dB when it outputs 25watts of already distorting power, and if we used THD to cap where we set the output level, chances are a bad $50 amp that can be had on the streets here will basically have around 5watts at 0.1%THD and then piles on the distortion faster than a decent amp. So even if I paid $150 for the Wharfedale standmounts I'd have to shell out $200 for a decent NAD amp (if I buy it new). So basically, same thing as above, if you got the Monitor 7's used or on a liquidation sale, even if you would base by price instead of other specs, you might as well look at the MSRP than what you paid for them now.

 

Also, an amplifier can have a lot of features, which in the case of the D3020, is a usable headphone amp (vs the high output impedance daughterboards they cram into large integrated amps), a USB DAC, and a dedicated subwoofer line level output controlled by the main preamp, which makes adding a subwoofer extremely convenient.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panterken /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Just to satisfy my curiosity: my brother tells me he's hooked up the NAD D3020 with a preamp but what you're saying is because it's integrated, that was unnecessary?

 

Was he using a turntable? Because he might be talking about a phono preamp, which basically does for the TT's cartridge what the discrete or HDAM/op-amp output stage does for a DAC chip.

 

Also are you sure he has the D3020? If he has the older 3020* that one might have the direct input to the amplifier stage that bypasses its own preamp stage (including the source selection stage), like when somebody prefers using a tube preamp for example.

 

 

*ie they rehashed the name for nostalgia in marketing, like how the names USS Enterprise and HMS Indefatigable get reused by the Navy, or TV shows reused Enterprise as much as the JDF's flagship is the Izumo which is a name used for ships in anime, like in Gundam

 

[StarTreker]

The last link you provided went to tall standing speakers with a max watt rating of 183 if I remember correctly and an ohm rating of 8. So any receiver that can push 200 watts or so into 8 ohms, will be more then enough to drive those speakers.

 

[Panterken]

http://audio.teac.com/product/a-h01/specifications/
 
I could buy this for €199, seems like a good deal, unless there's something I'm not seeing. If I really want bluetooth I can add that for about €30, from what I gather. 

 

[buke9]

That should be just fine if you don't listen too loud . It has a DAC in it so no need for the Dragonfly . It also has a subwoofer out if you want to add that in the future. If you listen at reasonable levels it should be fine. If you overdrive it you can damage speakers as others were saying more power is better. Most of the time distortion is the killer of speakers not wattage. Lower wattage driven hard = bad.

 

[StarTreker]

AGREED, at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms the best that amp is going to muster two passive speakers, are to moderate levels. Now with self-amplified speakers, they can amplify the 30 watts power and be able to do more. BTW, those are a nice looking pair of bookshelf speakers, and that little amp almost looks cute lol. Neat selection

 

[buke9]

AGREED, at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms the best that amp is going to muster two passive speakers, are to moderate levels. Now with self-amplified speakers, they can amplify the 30 watts power and be able to do more. BTW, those are a nice looking pair of bookshelf speakers, and that little amp almost looks cute lol. Neat selection

With self amplified speakers you don't want any amplification at all you will just be adding distortion.

 

[StarTreker]

 

AGREED, at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms the best that amp is going to muster two passive speakers, are to moderate levels. Now with self-amplified speakers, they can amplify the 30 watts power and be able to do more. BTW, those are a nice looking pair of bookshelf speakers, and that little amp almost looks cute lol. Neat selection

With self amplified speakers you don't want any amplification at all you will just be adding distortion.

 
This is equally true. But if your source is from a phone for example, the line level will be too low even for self amplified speakers. Pre-amps are really useful to fill in the signal voltage gap, but point just being that a little amplification before the speakers won't hurt anything provided you don't turn the amp up too much.

 

[Panterken]

Are my Adam A3x's self amplified speakers (active speakers synonym) or did I just put my foot in my mouth? The Paradigms aren't in any case. I picked my little showroom model amp up for €175, will hook it up tomorrow, I wonder how they'll sound; I also wonder if I want to bring in a subwoofer in the end.

 

[StarTreker]

And easy way to know which type of speaker you have is to look at the back. Passive speakers will have just have the audio connection. Where as self amplified speakers also have a power cord, and sometimes also have treble and bass adjustments knobs on the back as well.