[Kromen]

Hello,

Some time lurking here, but this is my second post after a proper introduction and looking for your advice on a new DAC or DAC / AMP.

I have an RME ADI-2 v2, which I bought as an upgrade for my iFi iDAC2, and while I like its features and form factor, unfortunately to me, it sounds too analytical, I find it too dry, lifeless and harsh.

I must say most of my issues with it are using my iLoud MM speakers (which I like and trust) while through my Rupert Neve headphone amp + HD600 I find it OK, but to me it lacks something wont let me enjoy the music.

After some research, I kinda narrowed my options to Schiit's Bifrost 2 and Denafrips Ares II but not limited to those, and actually considering a second hand Chord Qutest.

While I like BF2 the most and how it looks with RNHP, my main concern about it is the typical slightly v-shaped schiit's sound as I am really sensitive to harsh thin and elevated treble.

Being honest, at this moment, I am leaning towards the Ares II as I like to tinker the sound be by its filters or by external software like roon, HQ, etc.

To close, I appreciate any advice you can offer regarding this, thanks!

 

[Bazaar]

Is your 'v2' the current, FS model? I've seen/heard discussion in the RME thread that because it's a 'pro' DAC, that it is very neutral (analytical/harsh) for some.

Have you tried the different settings (e.g. NOS, Slow, etc.) to see if that helps? And, played w/ the PEQ?

There are also others in that thread that suggest to pair it w/ a headphone amp. I do that myself w/ the Burson Soloist (current model, w/ upgraded OpAmps) and am very pleased w/ the sound. I've also used the various PEQ profiles that are around (e.g. Oratory 1990's) to fine-tune the sound. I'm also using the XLR Balanced output into my Burson. All together, no complaints from me about the sound.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Try some R2R DACs. They are generally warm and organic.

Aside from the Denafrips DAC. There is the Audio-GD R28, Musician Pegasus for example on the same price range as the RME.

.. it sounds too analytical, I find it too dry, lifeless and harsh.

it lacks something wont let me enjoy the music.

Or a DAC with a tube output stage say Musical Paradise MP2-MK3 (its big!), or a Doge 7.

If space is not a constraint, will choose the Musical Paradise DAC. You could tune it to you're liking by changing the preamp and rectifier tubes. As well as its output capacitors. Many vinyl aficionados liked it very much.

 

[Monsterzero]

Sounds to me like you'd enjoy a R2R DAC, like the Denafrips. Many many R2R DACs out there. What is your budget?

 

[buke9]

Yep I think a R2R is what you are looking for.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The RME DAC is one of the two most musical pieces of gear I have. So I have a strong suspicion something is terribly wrong in your setup.

It does not have enough amp for HD 600 and the like, so if you are not happy with it driving them the problem is the amp, not the DAC. I haven't heard it but the Neve, on paper, does not have enough horsepower to make the HD 600s sing. Dry and lifeless sound out of a pair of HD 600/650/6XX is a textbook sign of them not being driven properly.

Look for a good OTL amp or a solid state amp that swings at least 15V (or 1W) at 300 ohms and I think you will have a completely different opinion.

Updated: Checking those speakers, I believe they are the problem. Do they sound good with anything else driving them?

 

[Kromen]

Is your 'v2' the current, FS model? I've seen/heard discussion in the RME thread that because it's a 'pro' DAC, that it is very neutral (analytical/harsh) for some.

Have you tried the different settings (e.g. NOS, Slow, etc.) to see if that helps? And, played w/ the PEQ?

There are also others in that thread that suggest to pair it w/ a headphone amp. I do that myself w/ the Burson Soloist (current model, w/ upgraded OpAmps) and am very pleased w/ the sound. I've also used the various PEQ profiles that are around (e.g. Oratory 1990's) to fine-tune the sound. I'm also using the XLR Balanced output into my Burson. All together, no complaints from me about the sound.

Hello,

Yes, its the FS model and honestly tried all filters and inputs, actually through schiit's eitr coaxial I noticed an improvement but I decided not use it with eitr because one of the main reasons I decided to buy it was its SteadyClock fs. I most say, through my RNHP + HD600 my issues are reduced but somewhat "masked" by the amp and headphones, but I use speakers the same or even more than headphones.

About eq, I tried some of the Oratory and liked, but I realized after some tests, I prefer not to eq

 

[Bazaar]

ah, no worries. Looks like some other good advice offered above.

 

[Kromen]

Hello and thank you all for your help!

I think you are right and definitely leaning towards R2R, as I mostly listen music while working (speakers and headphones) the kind of relaxed and non-fatiguing sound signature would better fit in my case.

My budget is less than 1k but can go over a bit if definitely worth it. My current option is the Ares II but kind of split vs the BF2.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Spend the money on speakers.

 

[Kromen]

The RME DAC is one of the two most musical pieces of gear I have. So I have a strong suspicion something is terribly wrong in your setup.

It does not have enough amp for HD 600 and the like, so if you are not happy with it driving them the problem is the amp, not the DAC. I haven't heard it but the Neve, on paper, does not have enough horsepower to make the HD 600s sing. Dry and lifeless sound out of a pair of HD 600/650/6XX is a textbook sign of them not being driven properly.

Look for a good OTL amp or a solid state amp that swings at least 15V (or 1W) at 300 ohms and I think you will have a completely different opinion.

Updated: Checking those speakers, I believe they are the problem. Do they sound good with anything else driving them?

Well actually my RME finds are through speakers as I tend to find dacs differences more easy with speakers than headphones. I have tried another studio level DAC Crane Song Avocet IIA (Quantum DAC) in my same setup and to me, it sounds awesome, but its a step up even over RME with custom filters(not akm ones) analog state and one of best AK4490 implementations out there with an impressive sound stage, but not mine hehe (borrowed).

Spend the money on speakers.

Yes, thats an option too

 

[gimmeheadroom]

If you want to spend money this is a good hobby. If you want good sound I think your DAC is not the problem.

 

[Kromen]

If you want to spend money this is a good hobby. If you want good sound I think your DAC is not the problem.

I am not saying the RME is bad, its just not my cup of tea that's why I looking an upgrade / alternative.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

It's just not analytical. At all. The detail retrieval is certainly there, but it does it in a very musical way.

The company that makes your speakers don't list any meaningful specs. It tells me they're not very good. You can't expect to get the most out of a thousand dollar DAC with 250 dollar bluetooth speakers whose claim to fame are being louder than other similarly-priced bluetooth speakers.

I'm not telling you what to like or commenting on your taste. I'm just saying objectively, the RME is fantastic. If it doesn't sound good, the problem is very unlikely to be the RME.

I have several DACs that cost more than 2X more than the RME and they aren't more musical or enjoyable for me. I don't think there is an upgrade unless you're willing to spend a lot of money. Plenty of alternatives though.

 

[Kromen]

It's just not analytical. At all. The detail retrieval is certainly there, but it does it in a very musical way.

The company that makes your speakers don't list any meaningful specs. It tells me they're not very good. You can't expect to get the most out of a thousand dollar DAC with 250 dollar bluetooth speakers whose claim to fame are being louder than other similarly-priced bluetooth speakers.

I'm not telling you what to like or commenting on your taste. I'm just saying objectively, the RME is fantastic. If it doesn't sound good, the problem is very unlikely to be the RME.

I have several DACs that cost more than 2X more than the RME and they aren't more musical or enjoyable for me. I don't think there is an upgrade unless you're willing to spend a lot of money. Plenty of alternatives though.

The thing is in my same system the Crane Song sounds noticeable better than RME, lol even a cheaper dac EL DAC (4490) sounds more musical than RME to me, its just a matter of preference. If you enjoy RME on your system Kudos to you, I simply don't in mine, that's all.