Long awaited Smyth SVS Realiser NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE
Aug 27, 2015 at 10:40 AM Post #2,821 of 2,909

hekeli

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For the lucky ones in EU, I think I'm selling mine.. act before I change my mind? 
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Oct 12, 2015 at 10:46 PM Post #2,825 of 2,909

oliverpool

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  Yes, I think it is 15ms. Stated by Smyth.

Thanks!  Does this increase (double?) if you use the 2 user profile modes? 
 
I see that the 2nd headphone output is actually stereo RCA.  If I do not want to use a headphone amp, can I use a 2 RCA to single female 3.5mm plug to connect a 2nd headphone?  I am trying to figure out a simple/cheap way to watch movies on this with my wife. I guess I will have to get a volume control for the 2nd headphone output as well. 
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 12:50 AM Post #2,827 of 2,909

darinf

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  Thanks!  Does this increase (double?) if you use the 2 user profile modes? 
 
I see that the 2nd headphone output is actually stereo RCA.  If I do not want to use a headphone amp, can I use a 2 RCA to single female 3.5mm plug to connect a 2nd headphone?  I am trying to figure out a simple/cheap way to watch movies on this with my wife. I guess I will have to get a volume control for the 2nd headphone output as well. 

While you can utilize the multiple processed audio outputs on the Realiser for multiple people, both people would be listening to the same PRIR/HPEQ setting. The Realiser outputs simultaneously to the 1/4" headphone jack, the "phones" RCA line level output on the back, and the optical digital output. You could connect a headphone amp or DAC to the Phones or digital output while also suing the 1/4" headphone jack on the front.
 
However, the Realiser also has a dual user mode where two different people can use two different measurements at the same time on one Realiser. You still have to have a headphone amp to connect to the Channel 3 & 4 line level outputs on the Realiser, but then if you had two different measurements, you could use both. For head tracking, you would also need to buy a 2nd head tracker.
 
If you download the Realiser User Manual, you can read pages 83-85 for the details on the dual user mode.
 
I have never done it, but I assume it works.
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 5:30 AM Post #2,828 of 2,909

oliverpool

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No, line output is line output. Why would you not want to use a headphone amp? You could get a dirt cheap Fiio or similar.



While you can utilize the multiple processed audio outputs on the Realiser for multiple people, both people would be listening to the same PRIR/HPEQ setting. The Realiser outputs simultaneously to the 1/4" headphone jack, the "phones" RCA line level output on the back, and the optical digital output. You could connect a headphone amp or DAC to the Phones or digital output while also suing the 1/4" headphone jack on the front.

However, the Realiser also has a dual user mode where two different people can use two different measurements at the same time on one Realiser. You still have to have a headphone amp to connect to the Channel 3 & 4 line level outputs on the Realiser, but then if you had two different measurements, you could use both. For head tracking, you would also need to buy a 2nd head tracker.

If you download the Realiser User Manual, you can read pages 83-85 for the details on the dual user mode.

I have never done it, but I assume it works.


I guess the main reason is I would usually be using a Bluetooth transmitter when I watch with my wife. I have dogs running around as well and a cable across the room is just not ideal. I have usually use my creative e5 as the aptx receiver or my herus plus with a receiver to my headphones. My wife has a psb mu2 which has a buildin amp so a Bluetooth reciever is just to receive the signal.

My 3 Bluetooth aptx transmitter only accepts 3.5mm input. So I am trying to figure how best to do what I want for watching movies/tv series with my wife.
 
Oct 13, 2015 at 11:45 PM Post #2,829 of 2,909

darinf

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My 3 Bluetooth aptx transmitter only accepts 3.5mm input. So I am trying to figure how best to do what I want for watching movies/tv series with my wife.

The 3.5mm input on your Bluetooth transmitter is just a stereo, line level input, I assume.
 
In that case, you can buy a dual RCA male to 3.5mm stereo cable. This will take the line level "phones" output on the back of the Realiser to your Bluetooth transmitter.
 
You could also use the "dual user" mode with two Bluetooth transmitters transmitting different audio signals: One on the Phones output and one on the Channel 3 and 4 outputs.
 
You might also have significantly more latency using Bluetooth. It all depends how much latency your Bluetooth devices have.
 
Oct 17, 2015 at 11:14 PM Post #2,830 of 2,909

oliverpool

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I been looking at this unit for a while. I only recently just manage to get a 2nd hand unit so rather late to the party.

My first impressions are that this unit really does what it says. Nothing in the market does what it can do. And I tried many including headspeaker and mixaudio amp as well. It really sounds as if you are listening to speakers. Amazing the first time you hear it. Wife as astonished as well. I then ran into a few issues one of which I hope I can solve soon.

1. The unit I got only had the installed sponge on the mic. It was cut in half. I managed to arrange a visit to a friends fantastic HT room (over 30k of equipment and treatment) this Wednesday. Does anyone know which comply model will fit the mics? The short cut ones installed on is rather flacky and may move.

2. My home system is a modest one as it is in a living room. A set of 5.1 paradigm millennia one and two Svs sealed subs. It needs audyssey to sounds its best. But it seems my onkyo 5009 does not apply audyssey to its multichannel analog input. I believe bass management and crossovers are not applied to its multi channel analog input as well. Does this mean that I will not hear the realizer at its best with the prir I make? As my speakers does roll off quite a lot below 100hz and audyssey does make the sound a lot better due to my living room environment? Any suggestions on to solve this? A third party 7.1 analog rca input to hdmi output in lcpm? Is there such a product?

3. My current prir of my system seem to have a light delayed echo of the front channels on the left side. E.g. I hear a very low echo or the room/voice on my left side slightly delayed after the front channel in scenes that's very quiet. I am not exactly sure what that is. I tried using the menu-sw and reducing the msec to 200 but it does not really seem to help or did help a little. If anyone is willing to help
Me test my prir I can send it over. I did more then 3 prir and it's the same. I do not hear the same issue with the other prir in the exchange thread. So I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

4. I am confused on what actually happens on a 5.1 audio from my bluray/media when I am
Using a 7.1 prir. It just ignores the rear surround? What about playing stereo media over a 5.1/7.1 prir? I guess what I am asking is my home prir. I assume my 5 channel mains over my small speakers will have poor bass response due to lack of bass management. As such playing a stereo music using my home 5.1 prir will have a similar lack of bass? It does seem be so when I tried it. My home system has the cross over set to 110hz. I checked the prir and ther seems
To be a low pass set to 80? Should I increase this to 110?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions!
 
Oct 17, 2015 at 11:40 PM Post #2,831 of 2,909

darinf

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I been looking at this unit for a while. I only recently just manage to get a 2nd hand unit so rather late to the party.

My first impressions are that this unit really does what it says. Nothing in the market does what it can do. And I tried many including headspeaker and mixaudio amp as well. It really sounds as if you are listening to speakers. Amazing the first time you hear it. Wife as astonished as well. I then ran into a few issues one of which I hope I can solve soon.

1. The unit I got only had the installed sponge on the mic. It was cut in half. I managed to arrange a visit to a friends fantastic HT room (over 30k of equipment and treatment) this Wednesday. Does anyone know which comply model will fit the mics? The short cut ones installed on is rather flacky and may move.

2. My home system is a modest one as it is in a living room. A set of 5.1 paradigm millennia one and two Svs sealed subs. It needs audyssey to sounds its best. But it seems my onkyo 5009 does not apply audyssey to its multichannel analog input. I believe bass management and crossovers are not applied to its multi channel analog input as well. Does this mean that I will not hear the realizer at its best with the prir I make? As my speakers does roll off quite a lot below 100hz and audyssey does make the sound a lot better due to my living room environment? Any suggestions on to solve this? A third party 7.1 analog rca input to hdmi output in lcpm? Is there such a product?

3. My current prir of my system seem to have a light delayed echo of the front channels on the left side. E.g. I hear a very low echo or the room/voice on my left side slightly delayed after the front channel in scenes that's very quiet. I am not exactly sure what that is. I tried using the menu-sw and reducing the msec to 200 but it does not really seem to help or did help a little. If anyone is willing to help
Me test my prir I can send it over. I did more then 3 prir and it's the same. I do not hear the same issue with the other prir in the exchange thread. So I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

4. I am confused on what actually happens on a 5.1 audio from my bluray/media when I am
Using a 7.1 prir. It just ignores the rear surround? What about playing stereo media over a 5.1/7.1 prir? I guess what I am asking is my home prir. I assume my 5 channel mains over my small speakers will have poor bass response due to lack of bass management. As such playing a stereo music using my home 5.1 prir will have a similar lack of bass? It does seem be so when I tried it. My home system has the cross over set to 110hz. I checked the prir and ther seems
To be a low pass set to 80? Should I increase this to 110?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions!

Congrats on your Realiser!
 
I don't have a lot of time to post a full response to your questions, but here's a few short answers:
 
1) The yellow foam tips are made by hand custom by Smyth Research. I don't know if they sell them separately. I have had luck with these Shure tips: http://shop-us.shure.com/p/orange-foam-sleeves-small?pp=12. I think I posted about them before. You might want to search this thread. They run really big, so try the smalls first. They are also a really tight fit on the mics, so be careful pulling them off. These Shure tips have a hard plastic sleeve on the inside. This makes them much stiffer and less prone to insertion problems like mic rotation, etc. For some people the softer OEM yellow foam tips work better. For me the Shure tips work better.
 
2) This is a problem I have measuring most home theater systems. None of the DSP, EQ, room correction, etc. is usually applied to the analog inputs of the receiver. This is definitely a problem since your meaurement will not take into account all the tuning of the system. I do not know of any solution to this problem. Maybe if you used some sort of A/D converter to get the audio from the Realiser into the receiver digitally. I do not know of any such device.
 
3) Not sure what the problem could be.
 
4) The Realiser does not to channel up-conversion. 5.1 sources will play back on 6 channels in the Realiser. 2.0 sources will play on just the left and right speaker, etc.
If you do your measurements with say a satellite/sub speaker system, then as long as the Realiser test signal plays through the complete L and R channels including any subs, then you would hear it that way in the PRIR. When you play 2 channel sources on your speaker system, does the receiver send everything below 110Hz to your subs? If the receiver only does that in the digital domain, then you will not hear that in the Realiser PRIR. Similar problem as item 2) above. 
 
I think I have the answers right. Other experts here will probably chime in to explain further or correct me.
 
Oct 18, 2015 at 3:12 AM Post #2,832 of 2,909

hekeli

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  2) This is a problem I have measuring most home theater systems. None of the DSP, EQ, room correction, etc. is usually applied to the analog inputs of the receiver. This is definitely a problem since your meaurement will not take into account all the tuning of the system. I do not know of any solution to this problem. Maybe if you used some sort of A/D converter to get the audio from the Realiser into the receiver digitally. I do not know of any such device.

 
If one has laptop with working 7.1 lpcm HDMI, it's probably enough to get a cheap USB interface with 8 line inputs like Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 ($349). Then just use some recording software to pass through the 8ch to HDMI output.
 
Oct 19, 2015 at 11:28 PM Post #2,833 of 2,909

oliverpool

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If one has laptop with working 7.1 lpcm HDMI, it's probably enough to get a cheap USB interface with 8 line inputs like Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 ($349). Then just use some recording software to pass through the 8ch to HDMI output.

 
I been looking for something like that but cheaper. Probably something from Behringher. Its the software part that I am not sure. How do we convert in real time what gets input via the device to the HDMI output in LPCM mode....   At the moment, my PRIR from my home sounds poor as its basically a monitor and sub setup with audyssey to reduce some of the modes and resonances due to a poor room setup. Without auysssey, it sounds ok with low volumes, but at loud volumes its pretty poor.  The test signals from the Realizer gets send at rather loud volumes and so my PRIR gets resonances and such recorded.....
 
  Congrats on your Realiser!
 
I don't have a lot of time to post a full response to your questions, but here's a few short answers:
 
1) The yellow foam tips are made by hand custom by Smyth Research. I don't know if they sell them separately. I have had luck with these Shure tips: http://shop-us.shure.com/p/orange-foam-sleeves-small?pp=12. I think I posted about them before. You might want to search this thread. They run really big, so try the smalls first. They are also a really tight fit on the mics, so be careful pulling them off. These Shure tips have a hard plastic sleeve on the inside. This makes them much stiffer and less prone to insertion problems like mic rotation, etc. For some people the softer OEM yellow foam tips work better. For me the Shure tips work better.
 
2) This is a problem I have measuring most home theater systems. None of the DSP, EQ, room correction, etc. is usually applied to the analog inputs of the receiver. This is definitely a problem since your meaurement will not take into account all the tuning of the system. I do not know of any solution to this problem. Maybe if you used some sort of A/D converter to get the audio from the Realiser into the receiver digitally. I do not know of any such device.
 
3) Not sure what the problem could be.
 
4) The Realiser does not to channel up-conversion. 5.1 sources will play back on 6 channels in the Realiser. 2.0 sources will play on just the left and right speaker, etc.
If you do your measurements with say a satellite/sub speaker system, then as long as the Realiser test signal plays through the complete L and R channels including any subs, then you would hear it that way in the PRIR. When you play 2 channel sources on your speaker system, does the receiver send everything below 110Hz to your subs? If the receiver only does that in the digital domain, then you will not hear that in the Realiser PRIR. Similar problem as item 2) above. 
 
I think I have the answers right. Other experts here will probably chime in to explain further or correct me.

 
I bought a set of T200 comply foam and they fit well! That solves the problem for now....
 
See my reply to hekeli on item 2. Its a real problem for some setup like mine. I also believe it will be a issue for many HT setup which uses their AV reciever or AV processor to do low and high pass to get the best blend between the main and the subs.  Not such a issue for stereo as most will not run any crossover to their mains. I am surprised after 5 years, that no one has managed to get a solution. I believe there is a simple way like a USB sound card with 6/8 channels analog inputs and using the PC to output the sound in real time over HDMI in LPCM?
 
I am now listening and using your PRIR. Switching between the audio revelation, sonus and a third one. They actually sound better the my personalised PRIR of my home system. The localisation is very good which I cannot say the same for many other I tried. I would love to have the Kef LS50 PRIR work properly for me. But the localisation for that PRIR is just poor. Is there any way to adjust a recorded PRIR to make it better?   
 
I am trying to understand the realizer for PRIR. If I want to replace my sub measurements in my PRIR with a actual input with no processing, how do I do that? Not sure how I can explain that. But basically my subs do have some room modes that I have EQ out using my AV reciever. So I would rather realiser just send the sub channels as it is to the headphones without using my measurements made.  At the same time, I would like to change my mains high pass to something like 110hz. Still figuring out if thats possible.
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 2:14 AM Post #2,834 of 2,909

hekeli

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I been looking for something like that but cheaper. Probably something from Behringher. Its the software part that I am not sure. How do we convert in real time what gets input via the device to the HDMI output in LPCM mode.... 

 
There's not many USB cards having actual 8 line inputs. Many have mics/instrument etc as extra (not sure if the 1M ohm instrument inputs work as line). You could get Behringer ADA8200 ($199) but then you need USB -> ADAT 8ch interface card (cheapest reported working is $115 miniDSP USBStreamer B). Unless you buy used, I'm not sure if you can get much cheaper.
 
The software is not rocket science, Audacity etc have monitor while recording option. I don't think using multiple soundcards is problem in this case either as the playback times are pretty short (two audio interfaces might get clocks/audio out of sync in time).
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 2:38 PM Post #2,835 of 2,909

profsbg

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There's not many USB cards having actual 8 line inputs. Many have mics/instrument etc as extra (not sure if the 1M ohm instrument inputs work as line). You could get Behringer ADA8200 ($199) but then you need USB -> ADAT 8ch interface card (cheapest reported working is $115 miniDSP USBStreamer B). Unless you buy used, I'm not sure if you can get much cheaper.
 
The software is not rocket science, Audacity etc have monitor while recording option. I don't think using multiple soundcards is problem in this case either as the playback times are pretty short (two audio interfaces might get clocks/audio out of sync in time).

So you believe that there is some simple hardware/software to accept 8 line inputs, convert to USB, input to PC,  which then concurrently outputs 7.1 LPCM over HDMI?  What about the processing delay? How would this affect the Smyth measurement and processing algorithm?  I have corresponded with  Smyth about this issue, and they do not know of such a workaround. I think many people would be interested though if it can be made to work.
 
A different approach is to calibrate the Realiser with the room correction out of the system, and then use line outputs from your room correction unit as input to Realiser. Since the room correction and Realiser are linear processing, the output of the Realiser will be close to the equalized speaker system. However, you lose the ability to go digital to the Realiser, and of course it is dependent on having the room correction in the loop and hence won't work for measuring someone else's system 
 

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