[mordy]

Hi,
 
Here is another C3g style tube, 18V 0.2A - The Philips Miniwatt 18040. I am not sure about the pinout - waiting for Gibosi to weigh in.
 

 

 

[bbmiller]

 

 
To my mind, there is no one "best" tube that is head-and-shoulders above all the others. The goal of the C3g designers was to create a pentode that would sound as good as a top-tier double triode when strapped. And there are a number of comparable top-tie double triodes, all equally good, but each slightly different. Depending on one's ears and gear, one of these might be preferable to the others, but it is not necessarily better. And in my mind, the Telefunken 6463 is right up there with the best of them.

Which is the least expensive of the ones that are right up there with the best of them?

 

[stacker45]

I have a Little Dot 1+, that still has the stock tubes. I want to upgade them , but since I'm clumsy, I don't want to have to fiddle with the little switches Inside.
 
I want to know if the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, is a direct replacement, and I'm open to suggestions, so feel free...
 
Oh!, and I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm from the ''Dark Side'', meaning I'm a Grado owner.

 

[ToTje]

  I have a Little Dot 1+, that still has the stock tubes. I want to upgade them , but since I'm clumsy, I don't want to have to fiddle with the little switches Inside.
 
I want to know if the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, is a direct replacement, and I'm open to suggestions, so feel free...
 
Oh!, and I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm from the ''Dark Side'', meaning I'm a Grado owner.

I just bought those Voshkods and they're plug and play.

The sound with those goes deep, and I mean DEEP!!!!

 

[stacker45]

  I just bought those Voshkods and they're plug and play.

The sound with those goes deep, and I mean DEEP!!!!

 
Thanks, Graos aren't  known for their bass exensin, so that's a good thing.

 

[gibosi]

  I have a Little Dot 1+, that still has the stock tubes. I want to upgade them , but since I'm clumsy, I don't want to have to fiddle with the little switches Inside.
 
I want to know if the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, is a direct replacement, and I'm open to suggestions, so feel free...
 
Oh!, and I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm from the ''Dark Side'', meaning I'm a Grado owner.

 
You can purchase the LD1+ with either 6J1, EF92 or 408A. And therefore, the answer to your question depends on which of these tubes were installed in your amp when you purchased it. As the amp costs a bit more with the EF92 and 408A, it is likely your amp came with 6J1. And if so, the 6ZH1p-EV is a direct replacement. But if your amp came with EF92 or 408A, it is absolutely necessary to change the internal jumpers.

 

[gibosi]

  Hi,
 
Here is another C3g style tube, 18V 0.2A - The Philips Miniwatt 18040. I am not sure about the pinout - waiting for Gibosi to weigh in.

 
Unfortunately, this tube has a different pinout than the C3g, so it is likely that you would have to build custom adapters to use this in an LD.....

 

[gibosi]

  Which is the least expensive of the ones that are right up there with the best of them?

 
As double triodes and the C3gs are not natively compatible with the LD, it seems to me that in order to make this price comparison, it is necessary to add in the cost of any adapters and/or mods required to run them. Further, coming up with prices is difficult because the cost of tubes is all over of the place. Case in point, I recently purchased a very early Tung-Sol VT231/6SN7GT for only $22. I have seen this tube go for over $200 on eBay. Perhaps the best way to estimate prices is to search the sold listings to determine what people have actually been willing to pay. But from my experience, the most important factor is patience. If you are willing to wait, sometimes good deals will fall in your lap.
 
A pair of C3g's typically runs about $70, but the additional cost of the adapters brings the cost up to around $125.00. Further, so far, these adapters will work for no other tube that I am aware of..... 
 
Top-tier double triodes can cost anywhere from a few dollars to hundreds of dollars and even more. Further, it is necessary to factor in the cost of the various mods necessary to run them. That said, once you have these mods in place, you can easily run any double triode. So one might say that the cost of the mods can be spread over as many tubes as you decide to purchase. The prices I paid for these mods totals about $40 for a 9-pin breadboard socket, 2 Vector 7-pin test sockets, a 4.5A laptop power supply and a step-down voltage regulator. And it is possible to purchase these mods for considerably less as Mordy has demonstrated. If you wish to run 6SN7's you would need to purchase an octal to 9-pin adapter for about $15.
 
In my opinion, top-tier double triodes might include Tung-Sol VT231, Sylvania 6SN7W, Gray National Union 6SN7GT (and a few other 6SN7GT's as well), Bendix and Sylvania 3C51, various Philips E88CC and E188CC, 1975 Voskhod and Reflektor 6N32P, 1950's E80CC, 1950's ECC40, Sylvania and Tung-Sol 5687WA and most recently, Telefunken 6463. I have paid anywhere from $5 to $70 for each of these tubes. So again, with the prices on eBay being so variable, it is hard to say which tube is the least expensive.
 
In my opinion, if you are set up to run double triodes, the "world is your oyster". And the icing on the cake is you can still run C3gs if you want.
 

 

[David.M]

Gibosi/Mordi
 
What do you guys think about the 6HM5 Yugo and the 6N6P-IR Gold Grid Combination?
 

How would the Mullard M8100 compare to the Yugo?


The Voshkod 6N23P are decent as power tubes, but i find them a little bright and too detailed. 
 
 I'm looking for something airy, warm,  with intact/full bodied  vocals, with improved bass and separation response that will compliment both the Senn HD600's and the beyer dt990's.
 
Just needing a second opinion, thanks.
 
I think, that's pretty much it for the plug and play. Next step after that will be modding the resistors/circuits and what-not, so your amp looks like a damn  octopus :I

 

[Acapella11]

  Gibosi/Mordi
 
What do you guys think about the 6HM5 Yugo and the 6N6P-IR Gold Grid Combination?
 

How would the Mullard M8100 compare to the Yugo?

My 2 c: Excellent combo. Haven't compared those for a long time but from the top of my head, you get more detail, treble extension and tighter bass and definitely more transparency. The 6N6P-IR are reasonably warm. Warmer than 6H30P tubes, while the Yugo 6HM5 are more on the neutral side.

 

[gibosi]

  I think, that's pretty much it for the plug and play. Next step after that will be modding the resistors/circuits and what-not, so your amp looks like a damn  octopus :I

 
My LD1+ uses an op amp as an output device instead of tubes, so I will defer to others....  However, I encourage you to try 5687's as output tubes. While the 6N23P excels as a driver, it just doesn't have enough "power" to be a good power tube. The 5687 has "power" similar to the 6N6P/6N30P types, and with a simple pin-adapter, you have more rolling options: RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, Raytheon, GE and Thomson.
 
And you think my Little Monster Dot looks like an octopus? lol  

 

[Johnnysound]

  Gibosi/Mordi
 
What do you guys think about the 6HM5 Yugo and the 6N6P-IR Gold Grid Combination?
 

How would the Mullard M8100 compare to the Yugo?


The Voshkod 6N23P are decent as power tubes, but i find them a little bright and too detailed. 
 
 I'm looking for something airy, warm,  with intact/full bodied  vocals, with improved bass and separation response that will compliment both the Senn HD600's and the beyer dt990's.
 
Just needing a second opinion, thanks.
 
I think, that's pretty much it for the plug and play. Next step after that will be modding the resistors/circuits and what-not, so your amp looks like a damn  octopus :I

I agree with Acapella11, excellent combo.  Just used it recently:  6HM5 Yugos with 6N6P (not IR version but good 78´ gold grid)   and the 6HM5 neutrality, presence and deep bass complement very nicely with the 6N6P "tight" bass and extended highs presentation, along with a touch of warmth... 

 

[Acapella11]

   
My LD1+ uses an op amp as an output device instead of tubes, so I will defer to others....  However, I encourage you to try 5687's as output tubes. While the 6N23P excels as a driver, it just doesn't have enough "power" to be a good power tube. The 5687 has "power" similar to the 6N6P/6N30P types, and with a simple pin-adapter, you have more rolling options: RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol, Raytheon, GE and Thomson.
 
And you think my Little Monster Dot looks like an octopus? lol  

 
And I encourage to roll 5687 tubes also

 

[mordy]

Hi David. M
 
Based on my own experience with power tubes, the 6SL7 and 6SN7 octal tubes are better than the 6N6P-IR. There is more weight and heft, the 6SL7 being a little lighter and quicker in presentation.
 
I haven't yet tried the 5687 as power tubes, but those who have used them claim that they sound better than the 6SN7. This is not surprising to me, given how good the 5687 sounds as a driver tube.
 
The above tubes are plug and play with the appropriate adapters.
 
The next step up for the Little Dot MKIII/IV would involve more adapters to run the C3g as driver tubes, and adapters, socket extenders (MKIII) and an external power supply with a 15A voltage regulator to use 2.5A power tubes (6AS7/6080).

 

[mordy]

Hi David.M,
 
Just wanted to add one more thing. You write that the Voskhod 6N23P sounded too detailed. My understanding is that you mean that the tube is to analytical, etched. The opposite would be musical, warm etc.
 
In general, it is very difficult to find a tube that has both qualities, both analytical and musical. IMHO the best tubes combine these virtues, in addition to reproducing the entire sound spectrum clearly and equally well in the bass, mid range and treble with a wide sound stage.
 
Sounds like a tall order, but it is possible to approximate this level. However, it requires a synergy between the power tubes and the driver tubes as well. Throw in factors such as your equipment, taste (and hearing), and you can get varied opinions. However, you can arrive at a consensus which tubes are in the best category.
 
The members of this forum have investigated and researched these choices, and their collective advice is very valuable. Read the blog, from the most recent posts and backwards in time, to get the knowledge of which tubes work the best in the LD amps.
 
Good Luck!