Liquid Platinum Tube Rollers.
Mar 3, 2020 at 7:08 PM Post #586 of 1,684

jb77

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Hi all,

I know I haven’t posted here in quite a while but wanted to share with all of you my experience below.

I have been very fortunate to be a beta tester, for a company some of you may be familiar with, this company is Tubemonger. I know a beta tester sounds weird for tubes, but Tubemonger has done something quite impressive. They have taken a tube that most of you are probably not familiar with and made into a very impressive “plug and play” 6922/ECC88 etc. replacement option. That tube is the CV3986/6021 sub-miniature flying leads tube.

This tube has some impressive “numbers” shown on the data sheets.

This tube is rated to 60,000 ft without pressurization. Has a high “G load” tolerances to an amazing 450 max G Shock rating/impact acceleration load.

These tubes are Very Tough! These tubes because of their construction are also highly resistant to microphonics.

Here is some info from a data sheet:

CA638AFD-AB47-49E3-9730-4738F4BA637B.jpeg



Also here is a link to further information from another data sheet:
http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/HB-3/Receiving-Type_Industrial_Tubes/6021.PDF


5EC478E9-816D-4E0B-990A-DC51EB50D6B4.png



Also some pictures of the CV3986/6021 compared(for size differences) to one of my Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 1958 (Beckman label)


8EEF189D-A89A-4AEF-8E6E-E96B57E1BE99.jpeg



1F22FF1E-2F8B-4447-B3E2-82A67CFF58F8.jpeg



This is my current favorite tube and using my more versatile Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Audio, for tube rolling. The “Mini-Mullard’s” (for my gear and my ears) beat the likes of all of my other tubes consisting of varying types of including 12AU7, 12AT7, 12AX7, 6922, 2C51, 396A etc.

Ok now onto my review below
(These are my subjective opinions based on my gear and my ears YMMV)

(Disclaimer) “being a beta test means I received these tubes for review, the owner ask me for my subjective opinions on these tubes which are mentioned below. These are my opinions and my opinions alone”.


Regarding the CV3986/6021 (Mini-Mullards)

Okay let’s talk about a phenomenal tube,(for my setup at least) that tube would be Tubemonger’s new CV3986/6021 sub-mini tube, or as a friend of mine called it, the “Mini-Mullard” As we dive into details, let’s start with.

Detail: this tube is a detail monster, it dives into your recordings and digs out detail, flat out amazing detail retrieval!

Soundstage: this tube has a soundstage that is hard to find in a tube, what I mean by that, is the soundstage hits all three axis, it has width, depth and height. Most tubes will give you width but not touch on the others some tubes will give you width and depth, but very few tubes will give you all three.(atleast in my experience). Because of the soundstage this tube is very “lifelike” it gives you a sense of being “there”.

Imaging: again this tubes shines, it has some of the most “lifelike” imaging I have heard. It will “show you” where the instruments are located within your soundstage. Together with the above mentioned soundstage, it delivers an amazing listening experience. It adds “life” to your music.

Treble: the “Mini-Mullard’s” have very detailed and extended treble response. To my ears, it is different then a typical Mullard’s treble response. It reminds me of a Telefunken ECC801S treble response, though not harsh as the Telefunken, with even more detail.

Midrange: the midrange response on these tubes is wonderful, as this tube does have the Mullard’s “lush midrange”

Bass: the “Mini-Mullard’s” Bass takes on more of a flat or linear response. The bass is detailed and “clean”. For most tracks it’s just perfect(To my ears, with my setup), not muddy or bloated, just nicely detailed and when called for, impactful.

In summary: these really are phenomenal tubes, they offer great imaging and detail, a soundstage with width, depth and height, which gives them a “lifelike” sound! Capable of amazingly lifelike vocals, with their great treble and Mullard’s “lush” midrange response. More of a flat to linear bass response that has just the right amount of presentation and impact with out being overpowering, muddy, or bloated.

Other noteworthy mentions, the treble on these tubes can take a short time for your ears/brain to adjust to the sound, but when they do, the results are amazing!

The above are my impressions using the Monolith Liquid Platinum by Alex Cavalli. Below is my impressions on my Schiit Mjolnir 2

I was able to do a proper listening session with my Schiit Mjolnir 2 and on low gain all of the above mentioned review statements, stand true for the Mjolnir 2. The Mini-Mullard is an absolutely phenomenal tube!

Now where it gets interesting, on high gain on my Mjolnir 2 the Mini-Mullard really “POP” now this is to its benefit on most songs. However it’s also to its detriment on others.

For the benefits(most songs): the bass level increases while maintaining detail and “cleanliness” of the bass. It does however start to go away from being linear. The midrange has a slight “volume” boost as everything else about the midrange remains the same and treble takes on more energy.

For the detriments(a few songs, more related to poor mastering quality): the bass can be to much and become bloated, resulting in the complete loss of linearity. Midrange will lose definition and detail. Treble becomes harsh and edgy.

The above is only on high gain, as on low gain the tube sounds wonderful and does not exhibit any of the “high gain detriments” on the same tracks.

Side note of importance: I volume match the low and high gain settings on my Mjolnir 2 with the use of a sound level meter and test tracks. In this process I volume match to the decibel. For as accurate reviews as possible.

Side note: you really have hit a “Grand Slam” with these tubes! As they continue to impress me each time I listen to them.

Thank you!

Jeremy

These tubes are a Tubemonger exclusive and can be found here:
https://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV3986_6021_1975_Mitcham_E88CC_SUB_NOS_p/ex-6021m.htm
 
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Mar 4, 2020 at 9:49 AM Post #587 of 1,684

WhiskeyJacks

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I have been using adapter tubes for years. For the LP I have been using a combination of PCC88 tubes that are not officially supported, ECC88, 6922, CCa, E188CC. These 4 are supported. Unsupported I have used for years are Western Electric 396 with adapters as well as 6N3P Reflektor and Foton both 50's tubes. These are not officially supported but have a high price/performance ratio. These tubes have a bit higher noise complaints in my experience with these 3 tubes I just mentioned in the LP. My favorite variant is the 12AU7, ECC82/7316 family that is not supported in the LP and requires an adapter. All the adapter tubes require a use of a pair of socket savers and a pair of the appropriate adapters. I have a top 17? I think list of my all time favorites. For the LP you can scratch off any ECC81, 12AT7, 6CC41, 6201 and GEC A2900. They are not officially recommended or unofficially recommended tubes for the LP.
Thanks for the information, I have actually been reading up on like web tube manual and the differences between some socket types and tubes being the voltage and that is why even though you can use tubes with adapters it is still good to check out like you were saying the parameters. See I was not entirely sure if I could use the PCC88 with the LP without an adapter because there was some decent pairs I had found for a good price. After buying the socket savers and adapters to the 12au7 tube type I will probably leave me with around 120-140 to spend on tubes so I will check out the different types of both 6922 and 12au7 and see what may be my best choices. Also, when I use to have the pan am the sets I enjoy were the JAN sylvania greens, ge where not bad, but the Mullards and the Voshod rockets where really good on the pan am.
 
Mar 4, 2020 at 12:57 PM Post #589 of 1,684

WhiskeyJacks

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Hi @WhiskeyJacks,

Welcome to the tube rolling club!

The Arya are great headphones, I currently have the Ananda’s and really enjoy them.

For the “warning” of using adapter tubes. Anytime you use a tube that has different operating parameters from what the amp was designed for you run the risk of having the amp fail prematurely. This is not to say it’s a guarantee the amp will fail but a “slight” possibility. I have been running adapter tubes in my LP from the beginning with out issue and know of several other that do the same with out issue.

For My recommendations I would pick up a pair of socket savers first from Tubemonger these specifically https://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
Though it looks like he just sold through, he should have more back in soon.

The reason for the socket savers especially for the Liquid Platinum, is the Liquid Platinum has an absolute “death grip” on the tubes, when I first received my Liquid Platinum (before I had Socket Savers) I installed the stock tubes listened and decided I wanted to tube roll. In the process of removing the stock tubes, I seriously thought I was going to break the Liquid Platinum. As the “death grip” is that strong, ever since then I use Socket Savers.

Recommendations on tubes is actually a very easy one for me now. I would get a pair of these tubes once he gets more in (2-3 weeks)
https://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV3986_6021_1975_Mitcham_E88CC_SUB_NOS_p/ex-6021m.htm
I was the beta tester for these tubes and they are easily my favorite tube of all my tubes not just the ones I use in my Liquid Platinum. I also have the Schiit Mjolnir 2 hybrid tube amp.

I’ll post my impressions of the tube here, in the mean time here is a link to my review
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/post-15490804

Hope this information helps!

Also so you have as a reference point I’ll post all of my tubes below

Tube list:

6922 variants

  1. Stock Electro Harmonix 6922 [LP]
  2. Stock 6BZ7 tubes for MJ2
  3. Matsushita / National PCC88/7DJ8 [LP]
  4. Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 [LP]
  5. Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8 [LP]
  6. Amperex 7308 vintage gold pin (green label JAN’s) [LP]
  7. Brimar KB/AD CV2492 E88CC (2 pairs) [LP]
  8. Brimar E88CC Gold Pin UK Valve Tubes [LP]
  9. Amperex Bugle-Boy 6DJ8/ECC88 D getter, date codes: Delta 8K, Delta 8L
  10. 1950’s SYLVANIA - D getter 6922 gold pins (VERY RARE PER AC) [LP]
  11. 1950s LORENZ STUTTGART - PCC88 Grey shield, 2 mica [LP]


12AU7 variants

  1. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 long plate square getter UK B- factory code 56/57 [LP]
  2. Mullard Blackburn goal post getter ECC82
  3. Brimar CV491/12AU7/ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter England 1958 [LP]
  4. Valvo 12AU7 ECC82 Germany, Hamburg Made Tubes (GfO D9E), SlantedGetters (1 pair 1 single)[LP]
  5. Telefunken ECC82 Smooth Plates [LP]
  6. Siemens ECC82 Silver Chrome Plates 12AU7 [LP]
  7. Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 1958 (Beckman label)[LP]
  8. Amperex Holland long plate foil D getter 7316 / 12au7 (2 singles)
  9. Amperex PQ 7316 ECC186 12AU7 D Getter matching 461 codes [LP]
  10. Amperex Philips ECC82 long plate foil D Getter 57/58 Heerlen Holland (4 pairs) (low testing)
  11. Brimar ECC82 1970s HALO-DISC Getter Short Plate Mazda LABEL - Thorn-AEI - England [LP]
  12. Tesla (NOT JJ) 1975-82 Military Long PL. ECC802S prem. 12AU7 [LP]
  13. RCA 12AU7 Black Plate Square getter 1957 [LP]
  14. RCA 12AU7A Clear Tops Conn label [LP]
  15. CBS Hytron JHY 5814A/12au7 Black Plate, Bent rectangular Getter a8 [LP]
  16. Sylvania JHS 5814WA/12AU7 Military Triple Mica Black plates code 5639B 312J [LP]
  17. Baldwin Raytheon 12AU7 long shiny black plates (5 pairs)
  18. Marconi MWT B329 ECC82 BRITISH MADE
  19. BRIMAR CV4034 - 1970 Military Long Plate Prem. Grade Long Life Halo Getter STC Prod. ENGLAND
  20. Amperex 12AU7 BugleBoy
12AT7 variants

  1. Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter 1959
  2. Valvo Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 double post O getter 1959 blue label
  3. GEC CV6091/A2900, 1964, Black Plates, D Getter 3x mica
  4. GEC A2900 2x mica
  5. Telefunken ECC801S
  6. Marconi B309 12AT7 ECC81 Black Plate Ring getter (2 pairs)
  7. Brimar 6060/12AT7 Yellow T Tube Made in Britain E81CC 6201 (2 pairs)
  8. Brimar CV4033 Military Black Plate Prem. Grade Long Life ECC81/CV4024/12AT7 Halo Getter STC Prod England 1960-62
  9. Brimar 6060 CV4024 12AT7WA TRIPLE MICA
  10. Mullard Blackburn ECC81 56/57 TK1 square getter
  11. Mullard Mitcham ECC81 1956 square getter
  12. Brimar ECC81 1954 square getter
  13. Heerlen E180CC/7062 1957 PW
  14. Siemens & Halske E81CC - 1960s 3-MICA 6201 Munich W. German Prem. ECC81 12AT7
  15. Valvo 1967 E81CC 6201 12AT7WA Gold Pin ADZAM SQ SPECIAL QUALITY Label - Hamburg Germany

12AX7 variants

1. RFT ECC83/12AX7
2.Tungsram ECC83 12AX7 - MINT NOS NIB RARE Sept 1962 Welded Plate Tubes - Hungary


Other variants
  1. *Telefunken 6211 [LP] *(very close to specs of a 12AU7)*
  2. *TESLA 6CC41 (6N2P ~ECC83) 1958 Silver Plate lk. Mazda/Cifte,D Getter* *(6922 pin layout, however specs close to that of a 12AX7)*


Sub-Mini variants

1. Mullard CV3986/6021[LP] ***(favorite tube)***

WE396A/6N3P/2C51 etc. variants
  1. WE396A [LP]
  2. Foton 6N3P 58/59’s [LP]
  3. Foton 6N3P 59’s
  4. Reflektor 6N3P 50’s era (3 pairs)
  5. LM Ericsson 2C51 steel pin square getter
  6. Marconi 5670 2C51 Tubes Red label Square/Rectangular Getters (2 pairs)
  7. Marconi 5670 2C51 Tubes White label Square/Rectangular Getters (1 pair 1 single)

[LP] tubes that will work in the LP
Thank you so much for all the relevant information in regards to the tubes you have owned from the 6922 variety, and the explanation with the socket savers and adapters. I wanted to ask the list of 6922 tubes that you put up....would you say that you liked all of the ones you own? Such as the: PCC88 Telefunken and Tungsram? I will be most likely getting an adapter for a 12AXX to 6922 and seeing if I can afford any of those after getting the socket savers. As for the 6922 variants There is an orange globe amperex pair for a decent price, a Amperex Holland for HP 6DJ8, Orange RCA from Holland, Pair of Sylvania JAN green print, and pair of Siemens 6DJ8 from Germany 1960s. I was wondering if you have ever tried any of those or new of there decency ( I have read that the Amperex Orange Globes are good).
 
Mar 4, 2020 at 1:10 PM Post #590 of 1,684

TK16

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Thank you so much for all the relevant information in regards to the tubes you have owned from the 6922 variety, and the explanation with the socket savers and adapters. I wanted to ask the list of 6922 tubes that you put up....would you say that you liked all of the ones you own? Such as the: PCC88 Telefunken and Tungsram? I will be most likely getting an adapter for a 12AXX to 6922 and seeing if I can afford any of those after getting the socket savers. As for the 6922 variants There is an orange globe amperex pair for a decent price, a Amperex Holland for HP 6DJ8, Orange RCA from Holland, Pair of Sylvania JAN green print, and pair of Siemens 6DJ8 from Germany 1960s. I was wondering if you have ever tried any of those or new of there decency ( I have read that the Amperex Orange Globes are good).
Having heard all the tubes you listed, if you do not want to use adapters the Heerlen ECC88 D getter tubes will give you the best experience. An option if you want to use a pair of socket savers and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters, that opens yourself up to 50's triple mica Reflector 6N3P, there's a couple pairs for $30 bucks a pair from a seller I got my 2 pairs from. Same adapter opens you up to 50's Western Electric 396A. These tubes do have a higher chance for noisy tubes in the LP though, due to the high gain on the LP and these tubes have a higher amplification factor (slightly) than ECC88. You would also have to get cheaper Chinese bakelite adapters instead of ceramic adapters. The ceramic adapters magnify noise the most transparent
 
Mar 4, 2020 at 1:26 PM Post #591 of 1,684

WhiskeyJacks

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Having heard all the tubes you listed, if you do not want to use adapters the Heerlen ECC88 D getter tubes will give you the best experience. An option if you want to use a pair of socket savers and a pair of 6N3P to ECC88 adapters, that opens yourself up to 50's triple mica Reflector 6N3P, there's a couple pairs for $30 bucks a pair from a seller I got my 2 pairs from. Same adapter opens you up to 50's Western Electric 396A. These tubes do have a higher chance for noisy tubes in the LP though, due to the high gain on the LP and these tubes have a higher amplification factor (slightly) than ECC88. You would also have to get cheaper Chinese bakelite adapters instead of ceramic adapters. The ceramic adapters magnify noise the most transparent
The Heerlen ECC88 D getter tubes, are those bugle boys or amperex?, I see a lot of heerlen in the description but it is with halo getter or O getters.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BU...153153?hash=item4b7565cd41:g:EvsAAOSwvIpdisFl This one has D getters I believe.

:As for the Reflector 6n3p do you feel like those are quiet on the LP with socket savers and adapters? Also the reflector tubes for 30 are they a good upgrade from the stock tube in your experience? I am going to keep looking for Heerlen first. Thanks all of the assistance.
 
Mar 4, 2020 at 1:29 PM Post #592 of 1,684

WhiskeyJacks

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Mar 4, 2020 at 7:52 PM Post #594 of 1,684

adamos

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I just wanted to say thank you for all the interesting and helpful information shared here and in the main Liquid Platinum thread. I just got a LP last week that I’m using with a Bifrost 2 and HD 6XX. It’s my first tube hybrid amp (or tube amp of any kind) so I’ve read through both threads to learn some of the basics about tube options and made notes on things that several of you have shared for reference.

I have to admit I’m enjoying the LP quite a bit with the stock tubes but they are my only frame of reference so I do plan to upgrade them. As a novice I think I’m going to stick with 6922 variants before venturing into adapters. Among those the Holland Bugle Boy D getter is the one that seemed to jump out the most here. The Brimar CV 2492 also sounds like a good option. So we’ll see what happens and in the meantime I‘m having fun with it as-is. Anyway thanks again for all the useful information.
 
Mar 5, 2020 at 10:55 AM Post #595 of 1,684

TK16

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I just wanted to say thank you for all the interesting and helpful information shared here and in the main Liquid Platinum thread. I just got a LP last week that I’m using with a Bifrost 2 and HD 6XX. It’s my first tube hybrid amp (or tube amp of any kind) so I’ve read through both threads to learn some of the basics about tube options and made notes on things that several of you have shared for reference.

I have to admit I’m enjoying the LP quite a bit with the stock tubes but they are my only frame of reference so I do plan to upgrade them. As a novice I think I’m going to stick with 6922 variants before venturing into adapters. Among those the Holland Bugle Boy D getter is the one that seemed to jump out the most here. The Brimar CV 2492 also sounds like a good option. So we’ll see what happens and in the meantime I‘m having fun with it as-is. Anyway thanks again for all the useful information.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1540#post-15497202
The Schitt Lyr tube rollers thread is a treasure trove of information about ECC88, ECC82, 7316, PCC88, 6N3P, Western Electric 396A and a bunch more of tubes that can be run without adapters, adapter tubes etc. Whatever you feel comfortable running in the LP. Scratch off anything 6201, ECC81, 6N2P, 6CC41, GEC A2900 related off a potential buy. They definitely won't work in the LP but they do work in my Schiit gear due to having a low/high gain switch, something the LP does not possess.
 
Mar 5, 2020 at 11:44 AM Post #596 of 1,684

adamos

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https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1540#post-15497202
The Schitt Lyr tube rollers thread is a treasure trove of information about ECC88, ECC82, 7316, PCC88, 6N3P, Western Electric 396A and a bunch more of tubes that can be run without adapters, adapter tubes etc. Whatever you feel comfortable running in the LP. Scratch off anything 6201, ECC81, 6N2P, 6CC41, GEC A2900 related off a potential buy. They definitely won't work in the LP but they do work in my Schiit gear due to having a low/high gain switch, something the LP does not possess.

Thanks, I'll check that out
 
Mar 5, 2020 at 5:53 PM Post #597 of 1,684

jb77

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Thank you so much for all the relevant information in regards to the tubes you have owned from the 6922 variety, and the explanation with the socket savers and adapters. I wanted to ask the list of 6922 tubes that you put up....would you say that you liked all of the ones you own? Such as the: PCC88 Telefunken and Tungsram? I will be most likely getting an adapter for a 12AXX to 6922 and seeing if I can afford any of those after getting the socket savers. As for the 6922 variants There is an orange globe amperex pair for a decent price, a Amperex Holland for HP 6DJ8, Orange RCA from Holland, Pair of Sylvania JAN green print, and pair of Siemens 6DJ8 from Germany 1960s. I was wondering if you have ever tried any of those or new of there decency ( I have read that the Amperex Orange Globes are good).

No problem,

Below are my top 5 in the 6922 family

  1. Amperex Bugle-Boy 6DJ8/ECC88 D getter, date codes: Delta 8K, Delta 8L
  2. 1950s LORENZ STUTTGART - PCC88 Grey shield, 2 mica [LP]
  3. 1950’s SYLVANIA - D getter 6922 gold pins (VERY RARE PER AC) [LP]
  4. Brimar KB/AD CV2492 E88CC (2 pairs) [LP]
  5. Brimar E88CC Gold Pin UK Valve Tubes [LP]
 
Mar 6, 2020 at 9:12 PM Post #599 of 1,684

WhiskeyJacks

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If I buy this amp stock. What tubes do I need to eliminate treble and upper mids peaks yet still have detail and resolution?
See personally feel the need to replace the tubes for that particular reason at least on decent recordings and the genres I have been listening to. I know though if you are looking for a slightly warmer tube that keeps detail and resolution someone here has tried and or owns it. This amp so far has been a joy to own. I will be writing a fitting first impressions a bit later after dinner. But until then know that I have been happy the 24 hours.
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 5:13 PM Post #600 of 1,684

Wes S

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Hey ya'll! I have a new number 1 tube for my LP, and it is the Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC 63'. This tube has the best bass I have heard with the LP, killer euphonically textured mids, and extended but never harsh highs. The bass is powerful, tight and deep, and the soundstage is huge with this tube, as well. The euphonic texture in the mids is insane, and you can almost touch and feel the notes in front of you. This tube is on another level, and really has that tube magic.
 

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