Light Harmonic Geek Wave
Jan 5, 2019 at 10:12 PM Post #4,876 of 5,933
No point to the post? Read the first and, especially, the last sentence, again!

BTW, what's your plan to get that refund, continue ridiculing backers whose opinions differ from your own? Good luck with that!

I'm glad you don't care...another "Whatever" person. No point in you posting then. Enjoy!
 
Jan 5, 2019 at 11:14 PM Post #4,879 of 5,933
I’d take a Stella instead at this point. A Wave will go up for sale shortly after receiving it, if that ever happens.

Be careful what you wish for. I was asked if I would be willing to take a Stella in place of my Wave. To me this means:

1. LHL has no means to complete anything...indeed from computeraudiophile recently I've seen in writing for the first time "we've certainly never hid that fact regarding LHL being a lost venture on IGG." I've never seen such official posts before...but there you have it; LHL is officially dead.

2. The value of the Stella is suspect. My Geek Wave order is just for the 32 (plus the forced upgrade to the 64 and a couple of options), for a total of $365 U.S. dollars. Now the Stella is set at $1300 U.S. dollars, and since they asked (no guarantees of course) if I would accept it (I said no), then perhaps this points to the real value of the Stella being less that $365. Maybe if they offered 2 Stella's I'd say yes.

Let's not forget the LHL official Mission Statement:

"You deserve to know what is happening with your money...We are actively moving towards more transparency regarding this entire venture."

See the statement at: https://support.lhlabs.com/support/discussions/topics/13000017835

How about telling everyone where the money went to begin with?
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 12:42 PM Post #4,880 of 5,933
I am writing this as feedback for Light Harmonic and Larry mainly as I don’t know who their latest representatives are. It used to be Jarek I think.

Firstly I think the silly carping at other members especially if you are not a backer who put down USD 2000 odd is damaging to us who did and do not want LH or LHL to declare bankruptcy as then we can really kiss our money goodbye. There is still hope and please do not destroy it for us.

I am an original backer of Geek Wave (much as I dislike the silly name). I did due diligence before I backed them reading up all the good reviews in various audio magazines that reviewed their previous products which were glowing.

The main reason I chose to back them was firstly there was no other good DAP on the market at that time and secondly because they uniquely offered and I think still do a replaceable battery. My partner has had to throw away three expensive mobile phones because the Lithium batteries were not replaceable by the companies. I won’t name them but they are three separate famous name brands. I also had to throw away two of my fav DAPs before I backed WAVE for the same reason.

Ok I still hope I will get a workable WAVE.

I do not and will not use online streaming, wifi or blue tooth or any audio encoding higher than FLAC 96, simply because the others are too expensive and the tiny difference they may make to my aging ears is not worth the price tag they charge. I already have an electronic musical collection of about 1 Terabyte I would like to be able to play. I rarely add to this now unless it is something extremely unusually good or new in the world of performance or composition. I ignore mediocre stuff. Some are transfers from CDs from the original first release of CDs because the interpretations are unique and the performers now deceased so they will not ever be improved on. In the last 10 years I mostly have bought downloads but a few good things are still not available on downloads which seems very strange given that these are forefront award winning CD labels and I reluctantly buy a few physical CDs which I have great trouble in ripping as my computers no longer have CD Drives.

Given what I have said about my needs if Larry and his audio engineers cannot get certain very complex audio software audio to do streaming…I don’t care and I would be happy with less, as long as it works and is robust.

In my classical world it is not so much about high quality of sound but interpretations. Some of the pre-stereo recordings are actually better at presenting some classical music compositions than some modern soulless high tech recordings.

For example some performers are too fast and some too slow; some go for details of each phrase but lose sight of the overarching whole of the composition; some introduce effects that were never there in the original score, etc etc. there are so many other parameters by which a good classical music performance recording is judged; others some are too closely miked and have no space or air around the music, others are too remote, or the venue acoustically bad for that type of music and so on.

I have found the GO2 I think it is called a small very hot running box in a bright metal red cover from LH has served me well almost 24 hours a day over 3 years connecting my laptop as source of music files to my Sony pretty old Sony compact unit which has wooden speaker cases not those modern plastic junk ones.

So Larry if you are ready to supply some folk with a slightly less fancy product we would accept that rather than wait for streaming and other stuff we will never use anyway. I am 72 years old and would like to make some sue of the WAVE before I pass on to celestial fields. :)))

I have lost money on other IG funded products mainly because according to the campaign owners the Chinese manufactures were unable to meet the demand or quality or supplied parts of lower quality without telling the campaign owners and the products failed in the trials or had to be shipped backwards and forwards by backers for replacement parts. Given the world financial situation at the start of 2019 I doubt the situation for manufacturers is going to get any better in China, probably worse rather to meet specifications of the IG designers high hopes and standards. It’s no good hoping they will and making us suffer so manufacture something that works at least robustly rather than some high tech spec product that will fail in the end pretty quickly. I am not going to buy another DAP. I cannot afford it. If I don’t get the WAVE I will go without; so please, writers in this thread don’t talk the product into being written off by your negativity. It’s our, the backers’ money not yours and our hopes not yours. This is not a forum for you simply to have fun in venting clever aleck remarks and sniping at one another. Thank you.
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 3:28 PM Post #4,882 of 5,933
1. LHL has no means to complete anything...indeed from computeraudiophile recently I've seen in writing for the first time "we've certainly never hid that fact regarding LHL being a lost venture on IGG." I've never seen such official posts before...but there you have it; LHL is officially dead.

Unsure who here works in business, but the very fact that LHL is being funded from LH and not LHL itself is a very clear indicator that LHL was a money lost venture. The R&D, manufacturing, overhead, etc. ate up costs. (also explained in-depth by various members here) The R&D cost for perks was greater than what was earned from backers purchasing those individual perks, according to my understanding from discussions with Larry.

Once the merchandise hits retailers, it's either a) outdated b) at a price that disagrees with the general public/retailers. I think Gavin even mentioned that a few times on the old LH forum.

IGG is a dead-end for money making, at least in LHL's case. LHL found out when they got IGG money and delivered/deliver products, it's a wall they come up against. There's nowhere to go with the product for retail. No one is denying the entire venture was a fiasco.
 
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Jan 6, 2019 at 4:23 PM Post #4,883 of 5,933
@stuck limo, I've now read your latest post 5 times, and even rubbed my eyes a few times in between. Even though many of us have suspected what you seem to be saying, I'm still a bit shocked... If Gavin and Larry knew the whole time that IGG-LH labs ventures were essentially dead ends re: retail markets, then why on Earth did they stage the massive perkathon for the WAVE? Especially since they were basically starting from scratch with the Wave to begin with... It seems to me that Larry needs to step forward in a big way and offer an explanation and consider a major "apology" (for whatever it is worth)... Too many people (like J.P., LargoCantabile, and Germay) seem to believe that a Wave is still coming their way at some point in the future... This is not the sense I am getting from your latest post here... Can Larry at least show up and discuss some sort of compensation plan (if one even exists) for all that have invested millions to fund his "dreams"?
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 4:37 PM Post #4,884 of 5,933
@stuck limo If Gavin and Larry knew the whole time that IGG-LH labs ventures were essentially dead ends re: retail markets, then why on Earth did they stage the massive perkathon for the WAVE?

At some point they found out. It was probably much later than when you're referring to; I don't know the exact timeline or discussions they had. By the time they found out, they were probably already too deep to pull out. I don't really know. I'm just relaying what has been expressed to me in conversations with Larry. Like I said, Gavin even mentioned this before on the old forums years back. I was told the entire campaign was mismanaged by those in charge and decisions were made willy-nilly without proper research or consultation, which led to great frustration, according to what I've heard. I'm not naming names, but I'm sure you all can figure out who the brains running the operations were. Of course, the buck had to or should have stopped somewhere and it apparently didn't, much to the regret of Larry. I'm sure you all can read between the lines here.

So now LHL is left picking up the pieces and trying to fulfill commitments. Wave is still being worked on. I just had a conversation with Larry last night. Software angle is being worked on now. Hopefully by March it will be done but there's no official announcement on anything yet. When something hard gets passed onto me, I'll post it.
 
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Jan 6, 2019 at 4:49 PM Post #4,885 of 5,933
So Jarek, in summary of the last few posts:

1. LHL is finished
2. Backers should not expect anything from LHL...ever
3. Light Harmonic (LH) may "try" to fulfill commitments...but maybe at a pittance pace (a few units a year)
4. As a result of 3, it could be many, many years before backers see anything
5. LHL's problems were KNOWN back in the Gavin days, and yet IGG campaigns continued without any ethical thought or oversight..and yes Larry shares the blame in the "willy-nilly" decisions "without proper research".
6. Due to 5, LHL (and by extension LH) behaved in an unethical, and perhaps fraudulent, manner with respect to the campaigns (this was before your time obviously). This also does not show well for IGG in permitting such behaviour.

So where does that leave everyone Jarek? If I "read between the lines" as you invite us to do, I think the only conclusion is that it is very likely most have lost their $.

How do you personally feel about this?
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 4:59 PM Post #4,886 of 5,933
Looks like LHL is waiting everyone out until everyone stops caring about whatever product they're owed. Probably a good idea to check in every few days to post that you're still waiting,
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 5:00 PM Post #4,887 of 5,933
@stuck limo, I appreciate your response, but I don't really understand what is going on here. If Larry does not have the funds to fulfill commitments, then why is he still working on the software? He has been working on the software for years and it is still not complete. Even if he is eventually successful in finally getting a functioning, independent beta version of the Wave together, how is he (or LH) ever going to come up with the funds to produce the myriad versions that were perked for? Seems to me that he needs to come to some kind of peace with the IGG campaigns, and come up with some other sort of plan for investors who still believe something is coming their way. Why can't Larry just come out with his own statement to explain the total mess he is in? I mean, even if Gavin and Casey were the major players in this debacle, LH and LH Labs are Larry's companies and he is still responsible to his investors. Thanks.
 
Jan 6, 2019 at 5:07 PM Post #4,888 of 5,933
@stuck limo, I appreciate your response, but I don't really understand what is going on here. If Larry does not have the funds to fulfill commitments, then why is he still working on the software? He has been working on the software for years and it is still not complete. Even if he is eventually successful in finally getting a functioning, independent beta version of the Wave together, how is he (or LH) ever going to come up with the funds to produce the myriad versions that were perked for? Seems to me that he needs to come to some kind of peace with the IGG campaigns, and come up with some other sort of plan for investors who still believe something is coming their way. Why can't Larry just come out with his own statement to explain the total mess he is in? I mean, even if Gavin and Casey were the major players in this debacle, LH and LH Labs are Larry's companies and he is still responsible to his investors. Thanks.
So Jarek, in summary of the last few posts:

1. LHL is finished
2. Backers should not expect anything from LHL...ever
3. Light Harmonic (LH) may "try" to fulfill commitments...but maybe at a pittance pace (a few units a year)
4. As a result of 3, it could be many, many years before backers see anything
5. LHL's problems were KNOWN back in the Gavin days, and yet IGG campaigns continued without any ethical thought or oversight..and yes Larry shares the blame in the "willy-nilly" decisions "without proper research".
6. Due to 5, LHL (and by extension LH) behaved in an unethical, and perhaps fraudulent, manner with respect to the campaigns (this was before your time obviously). This also does not show well for IGG in permitting such behaviour.

So where does that leave everyone Jarek? If I "read between the lines" as you invite us to do, I think the only conclusion is that it is very likely most have lost their $.

How do you personally feel about this?

And Larry was on the forums and posting videos and diagrams about Perks.
He was there an in it all.
 

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