[Rhamnetin]

Interesting. I have briefly compared the Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3 to an Ayre Acoustics QB-9, not ideal conditions but the Holo sounded more laid back than I was used to similar to the Venus.

I guess it is sweet. It's polite sounding, it's not going to be found fatiguing and on NOS mode it has a clean albeit laid back treble response (still laid back on oversampling mode but it sounded less linear and refined to my ears).

I remember Denafrips got some attention when a rather active forum member claimed the Ares bested the Spring level 3. A surprising claim no doubt, but it is impressive what Denafrips can build for the price.

 

[Torq]

Always amusing to read technical assessments, arguments and/or opinions where it is clear that those making them don't really understand what they're talking about.

When manufacturers of discrete-resistor based R-2R DACs start publishing INL measurements then you can start comparing them to monolithic R-2R or multi-bit DAC ICs. Until then, it is quite safe to assume that proper chip-based multi-bit designs have much better tolerances, and much lower drift, than even 0.01% discrete resistors. Never mind that they will have much better unit-to-unit consistency as well.

Also, just because you have 26 steps or resistors or resistor strings in your ladder (generally there will be far more resistors than there are steps), doesn't mean you're getting 26-bit performance (you are most assuredly not). If this was the sole arbiter of ladder quality/resolution, then the Terminator would look a bit sorry at it's price, given that Soekris has 27 steps in their dac1421 and dac1541 ladders, and even the Massdrop RDAC has 25. The ONLY thing you can be sure about here is that you'll never see dynamic range/resolution higher than the number of steps in the ladder.

 

[D2Girls]

I echo your feelings about R2R designs, Torq. I think the hype over the Terminator is a bit much.

6moons didn't publish their measurements but I recall a line in their review of the Denafrips Terminator where they conclude it has 16 bits of linearity. Sounds about right, as Denafrips does not explain how they are able to reslove issues with R2R ladder designs, that other manufactures appear to have overcome, case in point: Rockna and MSB. After doing my own research I suspect that the Denafrips Terminator might very well measure worse than the Yggy. It's very possible that the Terminaitor is actually a poor performing, and measuring dac, and that any perceived difference in sound is due to expectation bias. That's what's held me off blind buying one.

I mean the Terminator is a very imposing, very solidly built device, lots of caps, and massive tordial transformers. I can almost imagine myself having high levels of expectation bias if I were to insert one in my system. You certainly would WANT the darn thing to sound better than anything you've heard prior...

Anyway, I am very happy with my Yggy Analog 2.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I echo your feelings about R2R designs, Torq. I think the hype over the Terminator is a bit much.

6moons didn't publish their measurements but I recall a line in their review of the Denafrips Terminator where they conclude it has 16 bits of linearity. Sounds about right, as Denafrips does not explain how they are able to reslove issues with R2R ladder designs, that other manufactures appear to have overcome, case in point: Rockna and MSB. After doing my own research I suspect that the Denafrips Terminator might very well measure worse than the Yggy. It's very possible that the Terminaitor is actually a poor performing, and measuring dac, and that any perceived difference in sound is due to expectation bias. That's what's held me off blind buying one.

I mean the Terminator is a very imposing, very solidly built device, lots of caps, and massive tordial transformers. I can almost imagine myself having high levels of expectation bias if I were to insert one in my system. You certainly would WANT the darn thing to sound better than anything you've heard prior...

Anyway, I am very happy with my Yggy Analog 2.

What makes you think the Terminator would measure worse? Not that I am knowledgeable, but it does have far more resistor ladders per channel which is one way to compensate for errors right? And the PSU design seems far beyond the Yggy. I'm curious what experienced engineers think of the two.

 

[Torq]

Not that I am knowledgeable, but it does have far more resistor ladders per channel which is one way to compensate for errors right?

It has four ladders, which appear to be in sign-magnitude configuration, in total. Which is one per phase, per channel. Or two per channel - required for true balanced operation. The same number of IC-based R-2R "ladders" that Yggdrasil has, and the same number that the Soekris dac1541 or Pontus has. Being sign-magnitude in nature helps with distortion - but, again, even the basic Soekris units and the Massdrop RDAC does that.

Being "26-bit" doesn't really help with compensating for errors, either, unless you're resampling your content to 25 bits (one bit is required for the sign). And if you do that, you're a) not getting much compensation (vs. say, the Holo Audio Spring DAC, which has an additional ladder for compensation per channel) and b) you're no longer bit-perfect (even in the digital domain ) by definition - even before you get into non-linearity errors with the actual conversion.

None of that says anything definitive, or even necessarily useful, about how the Terminator sounds. Which makes it a relatively uninteresting statistic, excepting that it should measure with 1-bit more dynamic range than the same configuration in unbalanced configuration (i.e. with half the number of ladders), which should also be true for ANY fully balanced/differential multi-bit DAC.

I'm not making comments on how the Terminator sounds, as I've never reviewed one.

And that is, unfortunately, part of the problem here.

I can easily get my ears on an Yggdrasil, or DAVE or a DirectStream DAC (etc.), either via local meets/friends - because they're relatively common, via a manufacturer supported return/evaluation period or via a local dealer/at home demo. If you want to hear a Terminator - you either find someone that owns one close enough to hear it (good luck with that) or you get to spend $4,300 or so on a, per the web-site, non-returnable, non-refundable unit. I do not like that model at the best of times. Doubly so when there's no reasonable alternative for a typical potential customer to get a demo/audition.

 

[smodtactical]

Searched around but didn't find many comparisons between the benchmark dac3 and yggy 2.

Anyone ?

 

[Reggy]

Searched around but didn't find many comparisons between the benchmark dac3 and yggy 2.

Anyone ?

Funny, I googled "best DAC" for kicks and the first list came up listed Benchmark DAC3 HGC as No.1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...GAAW0&linkId=392c4053984124d863b6f2f8dab4b44b
not that I take it not with a grain of salt though that list. Still makes me curious.

 

[Torq]

Funny, I googled "best DAC" for kicks and the first list came up listed Benchmark DAC3 HGC as No.1
not that I take it not with a grain of salt though that list. Still makes me curious.

That would depend greatly on one's definition of "best".

And there are at least as many opinions on that as there are DACs on the market - probably more.

 

[Torq]

Searched around but didn't find many comparisons between the benchmark dac3 and yggy 2.

Since the DAC2 and DAC3 are audibly indistinguishable (I don't think even Benchmark claim otherwise), any review of the DAC2 vs. Yggdrasil Analog 2 should suffice.

 

[lithiumnk]

The Holo Audio Spring DAC has proved something of an upset in my auditioning process. I was intrigued by it's implementation of "Linear Compensation" (you'll need to see my full review for a proper discussion of that), and that turned out to lead me into a wonderfully musical and emotional experience.

While I'm not quite ready to say that I think the Spring DAC completely, technically, bests Yggdrasil, Metrum Pavane or Chord DAVE (the latter two being statements that really deserve a proper back-to-back comparison), I am finding that I'm at a suitable end-point for the process I started here. What I WILL say, quite happily, is that based on my reactions/emotional responses, to these units, that I prefer the Spring DAC over DAVE, the Pavane, and the Direct Stream Junior (and possibly non-junior).

With everything I've heard, and commented on, so far, this year, I am finding that it is an easy choice to opt for the combination of Schiit Yggdrasil and Holo Audio Spring DAC. They are both excellent performers, delivering very high-value, and yet are sufficiently different in their signature and capabilities that I find no conflict in wanting both of them. As I said, I wouldn't trade one for the other, but they are both SOTA/TOTL level performers and great complements to one another.

That means, at this point, and least for the remainder of this year, I am DONE in my search for an additional DAC.

If I elect to look further next year then the competition will restart with the DACs on my list that I've not so far gotten to listen to properly, but they will now be compared to the pairing of Yggdrasil and Spring DAC. And that process will start with a back-to-back elimination of my currently indicated short-list.

I am going to spend a nice long while immersing myself in the music that Yggdrasil and the Spring DAC render so convincingly. I am also going to spend the difference between the price I had anticipated potentially dropping on a new DAC into my vinyl system instead. And we'll see where things go next year.

For now, if you're looking for a new DAC, and have a budget that intersects the units in my shortlist, you need to make sure you audition both Yggdrasil and the Spring DAC. Even at several times their respective, similar, price-points, the difference between them and the "front-runner" are small and, often, a matter of taste.

To end ...

As of my formal evaluations, DAVE remained at the top of my list in terms of raw technical performance, while retaining excellent musicality. Still ... I'd, personally, rather have the combination of Yggdrasil and the Holo Audio Spring, regardless of price.

And just to whet your whistle, seed some anticipation, stir the pot and, of course, put the cat among the pigeons, I recently got to hear a unit that, while not in back-to-back comparison, and not strictly just a DAC, manages to redefine my expectations from digital audio. It's not cheap (several times the combined price of Yggdrasil and Spring, and indeed nudging a doubling of the price of DAVE) and not conventional, but it is going to cause quite the stir among the well-heeled when it makes a proper public appearance ...

Thanks for reading ... enjoy the music!

Any comparison to the upgraded Pavane Level 3 which has DAC TWO modules borrowed from Adagio.
Thanks

Edit: I have shortlisted holo spring level 3 and pavane level 3 (DAC TWO ). After listening to onyx thoroughly , which performed better than my hugo2 on all tracks.
I am interested in pavaneL3. Spring DAC is not available for demo/officially in my country whereas Metrum has started authorized dealership.
So I am tilting towards latter due to service and warranty concerns.

 

[MaxPowerZ]

Any comparison to the upgraded Pavane Level 3 which has DAC TWO modules borrowed from Adagio.
Thanks

Edit: I have shortlisted holo spring level 3 and pavane level 3 (DAC TWO ). After listening to onyx thoroughly , which performed better than my hugo2 on all tracks.
I am interested in pavaneL3. Spring DAC is not available for demo/officially in my country whereas Metrum has started authorized dealership.
So I am tilting towards latter due to service and warranty concerns.

Torq has written a few times that he's done chasing the "DAC dragon", it's too bad since this thread has been so awesome...

 

[Torq]

Any comparison to the upgraded Pavane Level 3 which has DAC TWO modules borrowed from Adagio.

I've never compared them back to back.

I sold my Spring DAC L3/KTE before I got my hands (or ears, I guess) on the updated Pavane.

Torq has written a few times that he's done chasing the "DAC dragon", it's too bad since this thread has been so awesome...

Thanks!

I do still listen to new DACs, and still post reviews of them from time to time, but it's not in this format since, as you say, I'm not actively looking for a new DAC for myself anymore. My next DAC upgrade is the pending addition of the Hugo M-Scaler to my DAVE. Anything else, for the time being, would be based on passively discovering something new. My review stuff now is split more across headphones, amps and DACs rather than being focused on DACs. And I've been covering a lot more stuff at the opposite end of the price spectrum as well - for example, I covered the new Modi 3 quite recently, as well as the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label. And there's a pending four-way, back-to-back comparison between the very latest iterations of Schiit's multi-bit DACs that'll show up in the near future ...

And that'll be followed, at some point, by updated reviews of, and similar all-up-comparison between Chord's DACs (Mojo, Qutest, Hugo 2, Hugo TT 2 and DAVE) with, and without, the M-Scaler in play.

But, again, not in this format, and not in this thread.

 

[MaxPowerZ]

I've never compared them back to back.

I sold my Spring DAC L3/KTE before I got my hands (or ears, I guess) on the updated Pavane.



Thanks!

I do still listen to new DACs, and still post reviews of them from time to time, but it's not in this format since, as you say, I'm not actively looking for a new DAC for myself anymore. My next DAC upgrade is the pending addition of the Hugo M-Scaler to my DAVE. Anything else, for the time being, would be based on passively discovering something new. My review stuff now is split more across headphones, amps and DACs rather than being focused on DACs. And I've been covering a lot more stuff at the opposite end of the price spectrum as well - for example, I covered the new Modi 3 quite recently, as well as the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label. And there's a pending four-way, back-to-back comparison between the very latest iterations of Schiit's multi-bit DACs that'll show up in the near future ...



And that'll be followed, at some point, by updated reviews of, and similar all-up-comparison between Chord's DACs (Mojo, Qutest, Hugo 2, Hugo TT 2 and DAVE) with, and without, the M-Scaler in play.

But, again, not in this format, and not in this thread.

That's a lot of cool stuff, keep up the good work! Will any of it be on headfi? I seem to recall that you dislike the "new" site

 

[lithiumnk]

I've never compared them back to back.

I sold my Spring DAC L3/KTE before I got my hands (or ears, I guess) on the updated Pavane.



Thanks!

I do still listen to new DACs, and still post reviews of them from time to time, but it's not in this format since, as you say, I'm not actively looking for a new DAC for myself anymore. My next DAC upgrade is the pending addition of the Hugo M-Scaler to my DAVE. Anything else, for the time being, would be based on passively discovering something new. My review stuff now is split more across headphones, amps and DACs rather than being focused on DACs. And I've been covering a lot more stuff at the opposite end of the price spectrum as well - for example, I covered the new Modi 3 quite recently, as well as the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label. And there's a pending four-way, back-to-back comparison between the very latest iterations of Schiit's multi-bit DACs that'll show up in the near future ...



And that'll be followed, at some point, by updated reviews of, and similar all-up-comparison between Chord's DACs (Mojo, Qutest, Hugo 2, Hugo TT 2 and DAVE) with, and without, the M-Scaler in play.

But, again, not in this format, and not in this thread.

Thank you
Waiting for your m-scaler review and it's pairing with other DACs.

 

[Torq]

Will any of it be on headfi? I seem to recall that you dislike the "new" site

Unlikely.

But if they are, it won't be in this thread.

Though that has little to do with the "new" site; those issues were mostly related to the operation of the classifieds section, and the effects of the migration on some posts with complex formatting, such as the first post in this thread, that I lack the motivation or interest to recreate from scratch.