[stuck limo]

Apologies if you believed I was calling you out for it. It was directed at LH, Light Harmonic, not you. Regardless of intentions, It's just bad customer service, from whoever manages the site, under the circumstances.

Fully understood. No offense taken. And as we've stated before countless times, that's a different product with different internals than the IGG version. The retailers who sell/will sell this DO NOT WANT the crowd-funded versions in their stores or inventory. The Light Harmonic version on the site is NOT the LH Labs crowd-funded version.

 

[MikeyFresh]

And as we've stated before countless times, that's a different product with different internals than the IGG version. The retailers who sell/will sell this DO NOT WANT the crowd-funded versions in their stores or inventory. The Light Harmonic version on the site is NOT the LH Labs crowd-funded version.

Yes that has been stated before, and it's also been posited that you've used the IGG pledged money to develop this "for retail channel" version and have actively offered it for sale, most likely in Asia, all the while not delivering to the IGG backers whose cash you took.

The same is true of the "Pro" versions of the Vi DAC. Is it really so much the retailers DO NOT WANT crowd-funded versions in their stores/inventory, shouldn't it be they don't have/get anything until all IGG obligations are fulfilled? Isn't it rather easy to not give the retailers LH Labs crowd-funded versions merely by changing the brand name on them to Light Harmonic?

Further, how would it be at all possible from a design cost and engineering perspective to produce something entirely different with "different internals" for the retail channel? Isn't it more likely you've simply switched the branding on it, so that instead of saying LH Labs it says Light Harmonic?

So no, the Light Harmonic version listed on the site isn't the LH Labs crowd-funded version, that "version" has yet to be produced, but the Light Harmonic version is the crowd-funded unit with a different brand name on it.

 

[stuck limo]

Yes that has been stated before, and it's also been posited that you've used the IGG pledged money to develop this "for retail channel" version

People have lots of claims over LH. If they have proof or access to LH Labs/Light Harmonic internal documents showing these posits, let them prove or show it. Without that, it's a lot of unfounded, unproven speculation that is presented as "fact" (as someone in this thread incorrectly stated).

Further, how would it be at all possible from a design cost and engineering perspective to produce something entirely different with "different internals" for the retail channel? Isn't it more likely you've simply switched the branding on it, so that instead of saying LH Labs it says Light Harmonic?

So no, the Light Harmonic version listed on the site isn't the LH Labs crowd-funded version, that "version" has yet to be produced, but the Light Harmonic version is the crowd-funded unit with a different brand name on it.

People who make these claims are welcome to take both and do a teardown on them and present their findings.

We COULD offer a list of the various different components (actually, one does exist, because I've seen it), but that would be fruitless, as we'd just be accused of making it up. I also HIGHLY suspect that if a teardown were to bring forth no evidence, the teardown would be dismissed, hidden from public, and never mentioned again.

I'm also pretty sure that if LH was to produce a video showing the internal differences, we would also be dismissed as doctoring or faking the video or unit.

 

[MikeyFresh]

We COULD offer a list of the various different components (actually, one does exist, because I've seen it), but that would be fruitless, as we'd just be accused of making it up. I also HIGHLY suspect that if a teardown were to bring forth no evidence, the teardown would be dismissed, hidden from public, and never mentioned again.

Actually no tear down is necessary, it's the same unit with a few different brand parts, big deal, that's still completely disingenuous, unethical, and fraudulent to make an offering via IGG, and then use the funds generated to produce something different and sell it while leaving the IGG campaign unfulfilled.

I don't need to present facts or evidence of that, it's plain as day and this is not a court of law. LH better hope he never faces one, the double-dealing and deceit are not defensible.

 

[stuck limo]

this is not a court of law.

I highly suspect even a ruling of innocence on LH's part by the court of law would not be sufficient or accepted by some.

 

[Hercules]

People have lots of claims over LH. If they have proof or access to LH Labs/Light Harmonic internal documents showing these posits, let them prove or show it. Without that, it's a lot of unfounded, unproven speculation that is presented as "fact" (as someone in this thread incorrectly stated).

We COULD offer a list of the various different components (actually, one does exist, because I've seen it), but that would be fruitless, as we'd just be accused of making it up. I also HIGHLY suspect that if a teardown were to bring forth no evidence, the teardown would be dismissed, hidden from public, and never mentioned again.

I'm also pretty sure that if LH was to produce a video showing the internal differences, we would also be dismissed as doctoring or faking the video or

Jarek, I sent you photo, original campaign perk description and supporting datasheet as prove to you that Standard Capacitor instead of Premium Jensens Capacitors found in my Vi Tube Signature Tube output stage for a Year without single words and response, the ball is at your court now please show me LH response and explanation on this matters, Thank You!

 

[marflao]

Wow....remembers me to the "forgotten" Mu-metall shield fiasco..of course it was unintentional.....ya ya

 

[Hercules]

Jarek, I sent you photo, original campaign perk description and supporting datasheet as prove to you that Standard Capacitor instead of Premium Jensens Capacitors found in my Vi Tube Signature Tube output stage for a Year without single words and response, the ball is at your court now please show me LH response and explanation on this matters, Thank You!

Customer Responded since 270 days 19 hours
#43578 Tube Capacitor Upgrade in my Vi DAC Tube Signature
reported 11 months ago

In case you lost tracked

 

[stuck limo]

Jarek, I sent you photo, original campaign perk description and supporting datasheet as prove to you that Standard Capacitor instead of Premium Jensens Capacitors found in my Vi Tube Signature Tube output stage for a Year without single words and response, the ball is at your court now please show me LH response and explanation on this matters, Thank You!

Yes, I remember that. I'll ask Larry again. I don't know what happened there.

 

[sjp770]

While you are there get some more pics of the new manufacturing plant. Any new chassis produced yet?

 

[marflao]

Customer Responded since 270 days 19 hours
#43578 Tube Capacitor Upgrade in my Vi DAC Tube Signature
reported 11 months ago

In case you lost tracked

Little story from my side:
in Feb 2017 I received a "brandnew" GO2A SE and due to the Mu-metal fiasco I was curious and opened the GO.



Smoked...burned....and we´re talking about an unused device with a hefty price tag.
Of course I raised tickets, dropped emails but nobody seemed to care until I posted on Facebook, Instagram etc.

Then "I got their attention" and received a new GO.

Yes...i opened it again because I don´t trust them anymore.



Now with a proper QC label!!

So maybe you need to go the same route.

 

[Hercules]

Little story from my side:
in Feb 2017 I received a "brandnew" GO2A SE and due to the Mu-metal fiasco I was curious and opened the GO.



Smoked...burned....and we´re talking about an unused device with a hefty price tag.
Of course I raised tickets, dropped emails but nobody seemed to care until I posted on Facebook, Instagram etc.

Then "I got their attention" and received a new GO.

Yes...i opened it again because I don´t trust them anymore.



Now with a proper QC label!!

So maybe you need to go the same route.

I give them benefits of doubt but being non-responsive in return.

 

[rikirk66]

Cannot believe Jared is still working for a fraudulent company.

How is possible for any importer, distributor or retailer even think of dealing with LH LABS after they stolen millions of dollars.

I have a vi tube and sounds great, still i would be ashamed to put it for sale even second hand.

And for those hoping on a ccx upgrade that they already paid for, you should know that the CCX module was never designed except for the board.

And the transformers on the board sit right on top of the power supply. The channels are inverted and cannot fit the Cardas XLR.

So like for shipping it was just a scheme for stealing more money.

 

[AVJazz]

Wow, didn't realize this thread was still active. Sorry, I've been having so much fun listening to music that I've missed the FOUR year anniversary of giving my money to a few scoundrels. Yep, Nov 5 2014 I was among the first few suckers to "pledge" towards a "Geek Soul Trade-Up (lot 1)" -- an event documented by Indiegogo which LH apparently now has selective amnesia about regarding terms and obligations.

Fortunately I didn't throw away more money for other fraudulent schemes like the Wave or the server, preamp, amp, etc. -- feel bad about those that did.

Here's the deal: I got a very nice DAC to replace the Pulse that had been intended as a stopgap until the Vi arrived -- guess, I was one of the lucky ones who actually got a working Pulse. It's from a small company based in northern California (hopefully they're safe given the current situation there), led by an extremely knowledgeable and respected digital audio expert who has been accessible to provide support, and delivered a product that represents best-in-class technology and value within its price class. In other words all the things that LH & GF pretended to be. Oh yeah, not surprisingly it blows the Pulse out of the water in terms of sound quality, as well it should given it's provenance, design and build quality commensurate with it's cost. Plus, I'm really happy not to have to look at the initials "LH" anymore on any audio components.

So at this point I really don't need nor care about my "missing-in-action" Vi DAC or the sporadic "updates" recycling the same vague reports of progress in making a chassis. I'm not going to get into the details as to debates regarding whether promised capacitors were indeed in the product, or LH products of a similar nature that are perhaps being sold in other parts of the world.

But after 4 years, it's quite apparent the individual who conducted business under the name of Larry Ho in the US in relation to an entity called LH Labs, solicited funds using the Indiegogo platform for products he did not have the competencies, skills or resources to deliver. And rather than taking an honorable, ethical approach to these failings, he and/or representatives of his company acted in a deliberately fraudulent manner. [Jarek, realize you arrived relatively late on the scene, but let's be clear: there's no other plausible explanation for, let's say invoicing for imminent shipping costs for products that over 2 years later still don't exist. Or soliciting for complex upgrades when you don't even have any clue how to design and source manufacture of a basic chassis.]

Very clearly, LH, GF & Co. "gamed" the system and abused crowdfunding to shield them from financial ramifications. Personally I have no idea if this was done so with malicious intent or they simply "got in over their heads", or how to apportion any blame. However, they ended up screwing a lot of people with commitments that they did not honor and in retrospect based upon falsified assumptions.

Speaking for myself, I was "pledging" for a specific product -- not to be in a pool of investors for a start-up company -- and these were not "breakthrough/never seen before" leading edge products: people have been making DAC's and other audio products for quite some time, and even LH had successfully made a very "high end" limited distribution DAC and an inexpensive, relatively mass produced version (albeit with some hiccups along the way). It should not have turned into this fiasco and there was ample opportunity to prevent this from falling over the ledge.

Maybe LH can walk away from this and make fresh start in a new market. But I am not going to wish him good luck and hope that his trail of lies eventually catches up with him. Y'know, karma...

Ciao

 

[erniejade]

A few years ago when they charged us extra for shipping, to me it implied the product was close to be ready to be shipped. Because if that, I feel i was flat lied to. I can understand unforeseen manufacturing issues * not over 4 -5 years worth) but when they flat out charged ua a separate extra shipping charge when they didn't even have a product ready is criminal.

If it ever comes about, i think most of us have bought a dac or streaming product that have a built in dac and you will see darn near every one of them for sale. Because of the issues, our resale is going to be garbage. We will be lucky to get 1/4 what we shelled out.